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W5YK
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: San Diego
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500, Unimog U2450,
Posts: 545
| RE: '99 G500 Transmission ... 2 new problems
martin - 12/28/2009 4:03 PM
The second problem is now I can't start the engine.
I think there is a solenoid disconnect circuit through the Neutral and /or Park switches so that the engine cannot be started in gear. Might be worth checking those paths out. |
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MiN
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Alpujarras, Spain
Vehicle(s): No cars, at all.
Posts: 555
| Re: '99 G500 Transmission
I've done the rebuild twice and neither time did I have a problem re-starting. However, I've had the non-start problem too.
If your fuel pump is working in key position 2 but nothing happens when you turn the key fully to the right to the start postion then I've normally found that to be the battery earth lead. This problem can just 'happen'. Clean the terminals of the battery earth lead, where it connects to the battery compartment and also where it connects to the frame; there's two braided earth leads, one inside the battery compartment and one under it to the frame - it's worth a try. |
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martin
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Del Mar, CA Isles of Scilly, UK
Vehicle(s): 99 G500 95 E300D 95 R1100GS 06 K1200R
Posts: 297
| RE: '99 G500 Transmission ... 2 new problems
I think there is a solenoid disconnect circuit through the Neutral and /or Park switches.
Is there a reset for the(se) solenoid(s)? Do you know their location? I checked the fuse/breaker layout in my owners manual. Nothing listed there.
I'm going to play with the three circuit connections on the back of the assembly tomorrow. Maybe that is where the problem lies.
-Martin |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: '99 G500 Transmission
martin - 12/28/2009 9:49 PM
Thanks for help Dutch. I already have an EPC account and referenced that exact image.
After I wrote my first post, I removed, disassembled, reassembled and reinstalled the floor shifter assembly again. I've done this several times now so it only takes about 15 minutes to do the entire procedure. The problem of not being able to shift beyond Drive still persists. I think there must be something not lining up or out of adjustment. When I first removed the assembly from the center console area, I noticed that it had been apart before. Screwdriver marks on the housing clips. It worked when I bought the truck, but I haven't used the lower gears for awhile. Trying to get prepared for an Anza Borrego weekend.
I don't think any of the three electical connections are a starter lockout or override, so I'm stumped as to why I don't have any ignition now.
Maybe some of the other early 463 guys have done this rebuild and can shed dome light on the issues.
Thanks.
-Martin
Isn't there a connection somehow to the brake pedal? Any chance your problem could be related there? |
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martin
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Del Mar, CA Isles of Scilly, UK
Vehicle(s): 99 G500 95 E300D 95 R1100GS 06 K1200R
Posts: 297
| RE: '99 G500 Transmission - update
A quick recap ... I removed, rebuilt and reinstalled the floor shifter assembly. Now there is NO ignition.
Everything electrical on the truck works except the ignition. The fuel pump is not getting voltage. I checked fuses, all were good. I swapped out the K40 relay and put in my brand new spare to see if that was the problem. It wasn't. That led me back to the shifter assembly. Afterall, it's the only thing I touched.
There is a transmission range recognition switch (S16/10) in the shifter assembly. I think this is were my problem lies. I think the switch is not recognizing the Neutral or Park positions and therefore NO ignition. Does this sound logical?
The switch (P/N A 210 545 13 32) is expensive at pennies less than $100 at my local dealer.
Does anyone know if there is a way to bypass the switch and fool the ignition into thinking the truck is in Neutral or Park?
Thanks.
-Martin
W5YK,
I think this might be what you are talking about. Even though you have a newer model and slightly different, the shifting switch is the same basic logic.
Dutch,
I didn't have to touch the brake pedal to start before, so I don't think there is an ignition brake pedal related switch on my G. Thanks for the suggestion anyway.
MiN,
All battery connections are good and look brand new. I checked battery voltage at 12.9V which should be sufficient. Thanks for the tip.
Edited by martin 12/30/2009 8:07 PM
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: '99 G500 Transmission - update
martin - 12/30/2009 8:00 PM
There is a transmission range recognition switch (S16/10) in the shifter assembly. I think this is were my problem lies. I think the switch is not recognizing the Neutral or Park positions and therefore NO ignition. Does this sound logical?
The switch (P/N A 210 545 13 32) is expensive at pennies less than $100 at my local dealer.
Neutral Safety Switch problem sounds very logical.
FWIW, MBUSA MSRP for that switch is $87.00. It can be had from the right source for about $68.
Any chance you could spray some contact cleaner in there and get it working again. Did you follow the detailed instructions for the installation and position of gear shift selector and that switch, as indicated in Step 9 of the WIS instructions? That appears to be key in the proper operation after assembly. |
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martin
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Del Mar, CA Isles of Scilly, UK
Vehicle(s): 99 G500 95 E300D 95 R1100GS 06 K1200R
Posts: 297
| RE: '99 G500 Transmission - update
It can be had from the right source for about $68.
Please PM me about this.
Did you follow the detailed instructions for the installation and position of gear shift selector and that switch, as indicated in Step 9 of the WIS instructions?
Sure did and this is where I think the problem lies.
The driver (#115 in the WIS doc) has an imbedded copper contact and rotates in a groove inside the S16/10 switch. The driver is cracked and the copper contact is about to fall off. I'm sure this is what needs to be replaced, but I will need to replace the entire switch according to my local dealer. I don't think there is anything wrong with any of the other contacts or the printed circuit board inside the switch.
The shifter assembly was rebuilt prior to my ownership and I think the driver was damaged during one of the rebuilds. This may have been what prevented the shifter from going from the Drive position to the 4-3-2-1 positions.
Now, I will wait for the new switch to arrive.
-Martin |
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ARH
Member
Date registered: Jan 2009
Location: O-Town
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500
Posts: 47
| Re: '99 G500 Transmission
I have a similar problem, though I do not think it's related to the shifter mechanism.
Same year truck; the transmission won't shift to the last gear (fifth?), and it shifts kinda rough between the four first gears. I thought oil temperature might be the culprit (we've had -20C here lately), but the problem persist when the truck is warmed up.
Any suggestions? |
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nadd
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UAE, Dubai
Vehicle(s): G500 2016 LHD, numerous Chevys
Posts: 1285
| RE: '99 G500 Transmission ... 2 new problems
martin - 12/29/2009 12:03 AM
The second problem is now I can't start the engine. I decided to reassemble the shifter despite the fact that I hadn't cured the 1-4 shift issue and reinstall it in the truck. Easy enough to do, 4 bolts, three unique electical plug connections and snap on the shift rod linkage. There is no voltage to the starter. All the other electrical stuff works. I held the ignition key in the start position while I shifted from P (GL) to D thinking that there might be a misadjustment in the shift linkage, but nothing.
Any tips, help, advise to get me going again will be hugely appreciated.
Thanks.
-Martin
Great capture DUTCH.
Martin - I know this is unrelated to your transmission, but what you describe sounds exactly like what happened when the immobiliser ring around the ignition switch fell out once (2000 G500), and so disabled the engine. In my case I pushed/screwed it back in and the car started up straight away. It is connected to a thin wire behind the lower fascia panel, which might have been clipped by some other work? Why not remove the panel to check the connection of the immobiliser antenna or double-check the fit of the ring (chromed if I remember right) around the ignition switch. I am guessing there is a chip/transponder somewhere inside the key fob - the car is impossible to start without the right key and a working ring antenna in place (imo). However if I recall correctly, once it starts you can remove the antenna and it will continue to run, until next time you have to turn it off and restart! |
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nadd
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UAE, Dubai
Vehicle(s): G500 2016 LHD, numerous Chevys
Posts: 1285
| Re: '99 G500 Transmission
Ps. On shifting out from D (sideways) into 4, our G500 is also very stiff, but I found that giving it a firm shove sideways with a slight upwards twist tends to work best. Whatever works? One day I hope to take it apart and give it a clean as described here...suspect it wasn't used much until around 60,000kms. |
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nadd
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UAE, Dubai
Vehicle(s): G500 2016 LHD, numerous Chevys
Posts: 1285
| Re: '99 G500 Transmission
ARH - 1/1/2010 10:47 PM
I have a similar problem, though I do not think it's related to the shifter mechanism.
Same year truck; the transmission won't shift to the last gear (fifth?), and it shifts kinda rough between the four first gears. I thought oil temperature might be the culprit (we've had -20C here lately), but the problem persist when the truck is warmed up.
Any suggestions?
Did you try "resetting" the "brain" of the transmission to re-learn the shift pattern according to your driving style? Can't do much harm, might help if it's an electronic problem...let me go find the thread..
-found-
http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=8269&sta...
Edited by nadd 1/1/2010 7:02 PM
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martin
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Del Mar, CA Isles of Scilly, UK
Vehicle(s): 99 G500 95 E300D 95 R1100GS 06 K1200R
Posts: 297
| RE: '99 G500 Transmission
Got it started ...
I opened up the S16/10 switch, removed the driver and epoxied the copper contact so that it wouldn't fall out. It's a temporary fix, but was enough to start the G. It only starts in Park not Neutral, but it was enough to let me get the G off the street and into my drive.
The driver is the weak link in the shifter assembly. Coincidentally, the same S16/10 switch is also used in the '98-'00 ML430/ML500. In fact the entire shift assembly is the same except for the top trim plate. Since I live in SoCal and there are plenty of ML's in the LA area junk yards, I may be able to get an entire rust free assembly for the same price as the MB S16/10 switch.
Nadd,
Thanks for the ignition ring tip. Turns out it wasn't the culprit although I did think about it when I was trying to diagnose the problem. After I get the new (used) shift assembly installed and am confident that all is well, I'll re-teach my transmission to shift. |
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nadd
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UAE, Dubai
Vehicle(s): G500 2016 LHD, numerous Chevys
Posts: 1285
| Re: '99 G500 Transmission
Great to hear that you conquered it. Also that part appears to be similar to the one in the 202-series C-class, but I would verify it with the EPC first... |
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ARH
Member
Date registered: Jan 2009
Location: O-Town
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500
Posts: 47
| Re: '99 G500 Transmission
nadd - 1/2/2010 12:59 AM
ARH - 1/1/2010 10:47 PM
I have a similar problem, though I do not think it's related to the shifter mechanism.
Same year truck; the transmission won't shift to the last gear (fifth?), and it shifts kinda rough between the four first gears. I thought oil temperature might be the culprit (we've had -20C here lately), but the problem persist when the truck is warmed up.
Any suggestions?
Did you try "resetting" the "brain" of the transmission to re-learn the shift pattern according to your driving style? Can't do much harm, might help if it's an electronic problem...let me go find the thread..
Actually, yes. I tried that exact same procedure months ago (thought it was revving too long before shifting) - didn't feel a single difference in shifting characteristics. Had a workshop reset the transmission and delete the codes - still no difference. Now, several months later, this pile shifts like utter crap.
Thanks for the tips, tho! |
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Mitabud
Member
Date registered: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Vehicle(s): '99 G500. '85 300gd
Posts: 9
| RE: '99 G500 Transmission
Thanks to all for tips and diagrams which were helpful in disassembly. We opened my shift console, and transfered just the intermediate lever onto the new spare C-class console. Also made a slight adjustment on the shift rod head so shift lever hit the correct positions. It all works perfectly, even with a cold start this morning......a slightly higher rev in first gear as normal, with a clean shift to second gear and beyond. I believe the problem was in my S16/10 driver switch but the complete spare console was too attractive to pass up. |
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nadd
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UAE, Dubai
Vehicle(s): G500 2016 LHD, numerous Chevys
Posts: 1285
| Re: '99 G500 Transmission
ARH - 1/4/2010 4:21 PM
Actually, yes. I tried that exact same procedure months ago (thought it was revving too long before shifting) - didn't feel a single difference in shifting characteristics. Had a workshop reset the transmission and delete the codes - still no difference. Now, several months later, this pile shifts like utter crap.
Thanks for the tips, tho!
Sheesh...what a pain. Not being an MB tech or transmission specialist, all I can think of next is getting the valve body removed and professionally cleaned. Could be a tiny bit of dirt that is causing your problem. Or the whole transmission flushed as described here:
http://www.hehlhans.de/tipp36.htm#b11
(Unless you know Deutsch you'll probably need help from http://translate.google.com)  |
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G4Garret
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oak Ridge - Knoxville - Windrock Tennessee
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500, U1100, SLK350, LR 101, WC-63 6x6
Posts: 243
| RE: '99 G500 Transmission
I know this is an older thread, but I just did the 1-4 fix on another G500. Second G I've done this to. I came to the forum to prep for this, and found this thread. After reading through it, it appears as if the OP may not have actually fixed the original 1-4 shift problem, at least on the original G shifter assembly. So just in case anyone else comes here trying to fix the 1-4 shift problem, I wanted to try and help.
Everything is good up to the point of fixing the rust on the shaft. What is normalyl wrong is not terribly obvious until you completely understand how the mechanism works. In order to properly fix it, you have to drive the pin (120) out of the shaft (50) and remove the large lever (250). The problem is caused by road spray getting up on the end of the shaft from the opening in the tunnel and causing rust on the shaft. So you have to clean the rust off the shaft and the inside of the lever, then throroughly grease and reassemble. Be sure to drive the pin in to the proper position. The problem has nothing to do with the "internal" plastic bushings and pins and clevis and such. It's just where the very end of that shaft is exposed to the weather.
Before reassembly, I packed that entire cavity in the plastic houseing with a good silicone grease in effort to keep out road spray. Also, be very sure you have the shift position switch correctly aligned, or it will probably destroy it when it's pressed into place. Just look at the pin and where it goes into it as you put it into position.
I just hope this helps someone, as this is a particularly confusing problem to fix, or at least I think so. I also hope Martin doesn't mind me doctoring his photo!
Garret
Here is the one I just repaired:
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martin
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Del Mar, CA Isles of Scilly, UK
Vehicle(s): 99 G500 95 E300D 95 R1100GS 06 K1200R
Posts: 297
| RE: '99 G500 Transmission
I also hope Martin doesn't mind me doctoring his photo!
Not at all.
The switch on mine was completely buggered and I probably put the final nail in the coffin when I reassembled it. Instead of purchasing a new switch from the dealer, I opted to purchase an entire shift assembly from a 1996 C280 off ebay for about a third of the dealer switch price. The C280 and the G500 shift assemblies are identical.
-Martin |
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ewikran
Veteran
Date registered: Jan 2009
Location: Tromso, Norway
Vehicle(s): W463 1997 300DT
Posts: 256
| Re: '99 G500 Transmission
I am preparing my self for this job now and have a maybe trivial question:
How do one remove the gear knob from the gear leaver?
I recall reading it was a twist of some sort, but I cant get it to move and don't like to ably to much force. |
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martin
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Del Mar, CA Isles of Scilly, UK
Vehicle(s): 99 G500 95 E300D 95 R1100GS 06 K1200R
Posts: 297
| RE: '99 G500 Transmission
The plastic base on the knob twists (threaded), then the wood (or leather wrapped) part of the knob lifts straight off.
Took me a few to figure it out too!
-Martin
 (Shift_Lever.jpg)
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 Shift_Lever.jpg (298KB - 13 downloads)
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