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Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot
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Posted 11/12/2008 11:51 AM
4x4abc



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
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RE: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

Patrick,

the upper and lower bolt for the 460 and, 461 and early 463 have different torque numbers. Possibly the WIS is wrong and later 463 have different torque values as well.
Could not check the WIS - my Windows machine died (man, I love my MACs!), but the pre WIS paper version gives the wrong torque number for the Loctite bolt (14x1.5) and does not acknowledge 2 different bolts. Don't know if the late model 463 have two different size bolts - early 463 had 16x1.5 and 14x1.5 (like the 460 and 461).

the paper manuals only indicate use of new bolt for the smaller Loctite bolt - not the larger 16x1.5 bolt.

Edited by 4x4abc 11/12/2008 11:56 AM




(460.jpg)



(early 463.jpg)



(later 463.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 460.jpg (83KB - 31 downloads)
Attachments early 463.jpg (61KB - 30 downloads)
Attachments later 463.jpg (68KB - 24 downloads)
#135929 - in reply to #135759
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Posted 11/12/2008 12:29 PM
G-AMG
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RE: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

Yes, Harald, I did use the WIS, and it showed DIFFERENT values between the W463, and the W460. Off the top of my head, I think the W463 was something like 280 for the BOTTOM, and 220 Nm for the TOP.

For the W460, it specified 265 Nm for TOP AND BOTTOM.

I guess the WIS could be wrong. From memory, the "update" Date on the WIS page was July 1997.

The date on the bottom of my German Manual is 1986. This is why I opted to go with the updated 1997 Values.
#135933 - in reply to #135759
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Posted 11/12/2008 12:51 PM
DUTCH
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Torque Values - 02/2008 WIS

Bolt: Fixed Caliper to Steering Knuckle: 265 Nm for 460, 461 & 463

Bolt: Fixed Caliper to Joint Housing, M14: 220 Nm - 463 only.

Bolt: Fixed Caliper to Joint Housing, M16: 280 Nm - 463 only.

"Replace Bolts" in all cases.
#135938 - in reply to #135933
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Posted 11/12/2008 1:33 PM
4x4abc



Date registered: Apr 2006
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RE: Torque Values - 02/2008 WIS

Steering Knuckle = Joint Housing?
if not, what is the Steering Knuckle?
#135944 - in reply to #135938
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Posted 11/12/2008 2:10 PM
DUTCH
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RE: Torque Values - 02/2008 WIS

4x4abc - 11/12/2008 1:33 PM

Steering Knuckle = Joint Housing?
if not, what is the Steering Knuckle?


Not sure. It's the nomenclature used in the attached WIS document.



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Brake Caliper.pdf (115KB - 62 downloads)
#135948 - in reply to #135944
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Posted 11/13/2008 3:49 PM
elevatorbernie
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Re: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

elevatorbernie - 11/11/2008 10:32 PM

I would guess that the bolts are one time only because they become deformed when torqued to spec. and if reused, the proper holding abilitilty may be compromised even if re-torqued to spec. again.
#136002 - in reply to #135897
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Posted 12/16/2008 6:08 PM
bram_r
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RE: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

While rebuilding my Perrot front calipers, I splitted the calipers for proper removing and cleaning of the brake cylinders and bores.
I know this isn't recommended by Mercedes and so also the 'square' o-ring that seats between the caliper halfs isn't servicable.

I know from some Suzuki brake rebuilds I did, that the same kind of o-ring is used. Ordered some and these fit ok in the Mercedes calipers. I measured the new Suzuki one with the old Mercedes one, but the Mercedes one was a little deformed after 25 yrs of compression I think, All dimension (inner and outer diameter and thickness were not more than 1 or 2 tenths of millimeter difference . Anyway, my Suzuki o-rings fitted the small bore in the M-B caliper ok, so I will mount these and put them to the test.

pn. Suzuki is 69107-34200, price about $7,- / piece.

Bram



(DSCN7429p.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments DSCN7429p.JPG (89KB - 30 downloads)
#138443 - in reply to #135759
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Posted 12/16/2008 6:16 PM
bram_r
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RE: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

Need your help/experience on the following, those Perrot dust seals kind of easily flop off the ridge on the calipers.
I don't have that special tool G-AMG is showing, but even if I press them on hard (even with mallet) I can see them creeping slowly upwards (the brake paste isn't helping much either). Don't dare using too much force since I'm afraid to damage the seal.
Anyway, even the ones that stay on, I feel changes are pretty good a few of them pop off during brake action.

What is a good way to make these seals sit tight on the calipers?

Thanks for your advice.

Bram
#138445 - in reply to #135759
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Posted 12/16/2008 9:45 PM
G-AMG
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Re: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

Bram,

I remember JJ having trouble like you describe.

Here was his nice "home-made" tool which seemed to solve the problem:

http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=11564&po...

Be sure you pack the "moat" half-way with the Paste.

Good Luck!
#138463 - in reply to #135759
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Posted 12/17/2008 7:26 PM
bram_r
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Re: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

G-AMG - 12/17/2008 3:45 AM

Bram,

I remember JJ having trouble like you describe.

Here was his nice "home-made" tool which seemed to solve the problem:

http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=11564&po...

Be sure you pack the "moat" half-way with the Paste.

Good Luck!


thanks for the link, however, new questions have emerged haha, but seriously:

Framenumber of my 1982 300GD is 460-323-17-021789
Front-axle number is 7013455
Front calipers are Perrot.

I was rebuilding my brakes and used the EPC to order a brake rebuild set:

- clicked no. '32' at FrontBrake overview;
- then ordered A 000 420 66 83 for a complete set incl. pistons. Note: A 000 420 68 83 is the seal kit for Perrot brakes. I figured A 000 420 66 83 would be the Perrot seal kit incl. the pistons.
- see pic for my dust seals. Looking at topic of http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=11564&po... and http://www.hehlhans.de/bilder/autos/g240/bremsevo/repsatz1.jpg I believe I got the wrong seals.
- went to the M-B dealer. Couldn't find anything wrong with my ordering process. The complete pn. on my 'rebuild kit box' is A 000 420 66 83 0064 btw.

Questions are:
- what should be the pn. for the Perrot rebuild kit. Did M-B mess up or what?

thanks,

Bram








(epc_bremsen2.jpg)



(epc_bremsen.jpg)



(epc_bremsen3.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments epc_bremsen2.jpg (51KB - 24 downloads)
Attachments epc_bremsen.jpg (94KB - 18 downloads)
Attachments epc_bremsen3.jpg (135KB - 19 downloads)
#138546 - in reply to #138463
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Posted 12/17/2008 9:21 PM
G-AMG
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Date registered: May 2006
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RE: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

Hmm,

I looked back on my post. I try hard to get part numbers and things in the photos, for circumstances such as these...

Looking back, the part# I used on MY PERROT calipers was: 000 420 68 83



(18.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments 18.JPG (74KB - 17 downloads)
#138556 - in reply to #135759
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Posted 12/18/2008 2:10 AM
bram_r
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RE: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

G-AMG - 12/18/2008 3:21 AM

Hmm,

I looked back on my post. I try hard to get part numbers and things in the photos, for circumstances such as these...

Looking back, the part# I used on MY PERROT calipers was: 000 420 68 83


Yes, and indeed the correct seals you got.
But what should be my pn. if I want the complete rebuild kit for Perrot calipers.
Assumingly, my rebuild kit pn. 000 420 66 83 (seals plus pistons that is) is showing wrong type of seals.

My dealer has got some info from his part-sources today as well.
He'll be ordering two sets of 000 420 68 83 now. I can use the dust seals of this kit, and probably return my wrong seals and it will be marked as an EPC flaw.
This will get me at least my Perrot seal kits for free.

Still it would be nice to know what the pn. of the Perrot rebuild kit should be.

Bram

Edited by bram_r 12/18/2008 3:35 AM
#138585 - in reply to #138556
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Posted 12/18/2008 7:07 AM
Inkblotz
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Re: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

Here is the Perrot rebuild kit at Eurotruck: http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info...


RE the caliper bolts: Elevatorbernie came closest to the answer. I had read somewhere that the bolts used are referred to as stretch bolts and they will deform when torqued. Allowing them to grip better? I do not know the exact science of this as I a pulling it from memory.

Mark

Edited by Inkblotz 12/18/2008 7:20 AM
#138591 - in reply to #135759
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Posted 12/18/2008 8:50 AM
bram_r
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Re: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

Inkblotz - 12/18/2008 1:07 PM

Here is the Perrot rebuild kit at Eurotruck: http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info...


RE the caliper bolts: Elevatorbernie came closest to the answer. I had read somewhere that the bolts used are referred to as stretch bolts and they will deform when torqued. Allowing them to grip better? I do not know the exact science of this as I a pulling it from memory.

Mark


the Perrot seal kit is not a problem, that's pn. A 000 420 68 83.

Question is: when ordering a complete rebuild kit for Perrot calipers (incl. brake pistons), what is the M-B order number?

Bram
#138600 - in reply to #138591
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Posted 12/18/2008 9:40 AM
G-AMG
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Date registered: May 2006
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RE: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

Bram,

Sorry, now I understand what you mean, you are looking for the WHOLE set, not just the Rubbers..

Well, here is the EPC for my VIN. If you give me yours, I'll run your number.

But, I am wondering if your Axle number may be BEFORE the footnoted axle numbers.

Thus, the A 000 420 66 83 part number DOES NOT APPLY TO YOUR TRUCK.



(Caliper.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Caliper.JPG (97KB - 22 downloads)
#138602 - in reply to #135759
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Posted 12/18/2008 10:21 AM
bram_r
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Re: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

thanks for the effort.

as listed in my post above, my G data:

[ Framenumber of my 1982 300GD is 460-323-17-021789
Front-axle number is 7 013455
Front calipers are Perrot. ]

Per the footnote, my front axle no. is in the 7 000001 - 7 063900 range, so it should be the right set..?
I mean, at the M-B dealer this set is also what they would come up with.

Bram

#138606 - in reply to #135759
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Posted 12/18/2008 10:30 AM
petermerle
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Re: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

There is no such "kit" listed on EPC
Peter
#138607 - in reply to #135759
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Posted 12/18/2008 10:45 AM
G-AMG
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RE: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

Well, I guess you are stuck getting the pistons as individual items.

Here are the numbers.



(Pistons.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Pistons.JPG (42KB - 22 downloads)
#138609 - in reply to #135759
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Posted 12/18/2008 11:03 AM
EuroTruck
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Re: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

bram_r - 12/18/2008 8:50 AM  Question is: when ordering a complete rebuild kit for Perrot calipers (incl. brake pistons), what is the M-B order number?

 

 

Hello Bram,

 

There is no complete repair kit, including pistons, for the Perrot / WABCO calipers, at least not that I know of.  You must order the seal kit and pistons separately.

Repair kit A 000 420 6683 applies to part numbers A 003 421 4998 and A 003 421 5098, which are TEVES / ATE calipers.

For future reference, the seal rings for the brake fluid passages inside the caliper are p/n A 000 423 1560.  The seals are 10mm OD X 6mm ID X 2mm height.  MB does not recommend splitting the calipers on the G, but we all know that it can be safely and effectively done.  MB does allow the UNIMOG calipers to be split open, therefore, we keep dozens of these small rings in stock for the UNIMOG folks, and the EPC actually shows these rings along with the UNIMOG calipers.

http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_73&products_id=944

Now please, no more Suzuki parts on your G. 

Hope this help,

 

-Sean P.

#138614 - in reply to #138600
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Posted 12/18/2008 11:29 AM
bram_r
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Re: Photo DIY- Front Caliper Rebuild- W460 Perrot

EuroTruck - 12/18/2008 5:03 PM

bram_r - 12/18/2008 8:50 AM  Question is: when ordering a complete rebuild kit for Perrot calipers (incl. brake pistons), what is the M-B order number?

 

 

Hello Bram,

 

There is no complete repair kit, including pistons, for the Perrot / WABCO calipers, at least not that I know of.  You must order the seal kit and pistons separately.

Repair kit A 000 420 6683 applies to part numbers A 003 421 4998 and A 003 421 5098, which are TEVES / ATE calipers.

For future reference, the seal rings for the brake fluid passages inside the caliper are p/n A 000 423 1560.  The seals are 10mm OD X 6mm ID X 2mm height.  MB does not recommend splitting the calipers on the G, but we all know that it can be safely and effectively done.  MB does allow the UNIMOG calipers to be split open, therefore, we keep dozens of these small rings in stock for the UNIMOG folks, and the EPC actually shows these rings along with the UNIMOG calipers.

http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_73&products_id=944

Now please, no more Suzuki parts on your G. 

Hope this help,

 

-Sean P.



thanks guys, for all your help,

Since I never had any EPC problems/flaws before, I knew there had to be something...
Strange I find that they list in the seal kits 'for Perrot' or 'for Teves', but for the complete rebuild kit they refer to partnumbers. While CD-EPC doens't allow reverse-search on partnumber, a little tricky to find out this 000 420 6683 kit isn't applicable to Perrot brakes. Even M-B dealer and their EPC help-desk didn't come up with this info. Should be a 'footnote' at least I'd say. Especially since the calipers have so clearly casted 'Perrot' in them, it was my reference together with the axle number.

Thanks as well to those passage o-rings. I haven't mounted the Suzuki rings yet, so will go for the M-B rings for good measure.

Anyway, got two sets of 000 420 6883 seal kits today so work can continue on the brakes. The M-B dealer asked me to return the 'wrong' seals for making a credit for that. Otherwise lesson learned I'd say.

Bram
#138618 - in reply to #138614
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