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discap
Regular
Date registered: Nov 2006
Location: Wichita Kansas
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500
Posts: 63
| It dies and won't start
Hello:
I am a new member to this forum but have been lurking for awhile. Need some help. About a month or so ago I went to drive my 2000 G500 and the starter would not turn. All of the lights on the dash and headlights worked but it was like trying to start you car in gear, no starter. I jumped it and it worked.
A couple of weeks later it died suddenly after driving for less than 10 minutes, just quit. No starter again. Towed it to the dealer and it started fine, they cleared a couple of "Low voltage" codes that they said were old. A week or so later same thing in exactly the same place. This time I sat with the car for about 20 minutes and it healed itself.
Last week I left work and it would not start. It finally did on the third or forth turn of the key. By not start I mean no starter same as before. Got it running and drove it home. Tried it later that night, no luck. Next morning no luck. Put in a new battery and it started. Left it idleing to charge the battery. Came out 20 minutes later and it was dead. Would not start.
Towed to dealer. Would not start for them. They troubleshot and determined that it was a loose ground wire to the chassis. Called to tell me to pick it up. Showed up at dealer and it would not start. They had driven it for about 10-15 minutes before I got there. Unfortunately they were unable to look at it right then. I left it. Next morning and for the past 4 days it starts with no problem.
They called Europa who put them in touch with a tech that was familiar (MB had to supply a credit card first). He suggested a Z connector and a couple of other things.
Any ideas.
Thanks in advance
Hi Dutch |
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| Re: It dies and won't start
I had a similar problem with my 1985 280GE, required replacing the bosch ignition etc. |
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ewalberg
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
| Re: It dies and won't start
Hey, you must be crazy, everybody knows that the 2000 g500's never have any problems.  Try to keep it on the downlow okay?  I'm very much kidding, if they find the root of it, let us know.
joking aside, the alternators seem like a pretty common failure on the newer trucks... could that be the problem on yours too? I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same part. Consider also checking to see if there's an intermittent drain on the battery which is killing it? Just speculating. There's also more than one ground point to check.
Edited by ewalberg 11/7/2006 8:00 PM
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Crankshaft Position Sensor
Crankshaft Position Sensor. It's a common problem on the M112 and M113 engines; and it does not set any codes.
The part is about US$60; and takes about 30 minutes to replace on a cold engine. |
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roughneck
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
| RE: It dies and won't start
For my money I would bet on a loose power lead to the starter motor or starter solenoid. BOL. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: It dies and won't start
Does the engine crank, but not start? If so, it's 99% sure to be the CPS.
Does it not crank at all? See Bill's response. |
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discap
Regular
Date registered: Nov 2006
Location: Wichita Kansas
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500
Posts: 63
| RE: It dies and won't start
Thanks for the inputs.
It does not crank. It is like trying to start it with the shifter in Drive. All the lights come on, turn the key and nothing.
I doubt that it is a starter problem because of the sudden death. The 4 times it has died were within 10 - 15 minutes of starting.
One other (related?) data point. When all of this started the speedo and tach needles turned into a snare drum on startup and shutdown. After the engine starts the tach and speedo beat against their stops for about 10 seconds, none of the other needles/gauges are alive. After they stop all of the other needles come alive. When the key is turned off the tach and speedo play like a drum for an additional 10 seconds.
Help. |
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EuroTruck
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oakwood, Georgia - USA
Vehicle(s): 2012 Audi A4 Avant S-Line, 2015 Ridley NOAH SL
Posts: 518
| RE: It dies and won't start
Do not listen to Dutch or Rancher. Between the two of them, there's over 40 years of collective G knowledge, so how in the world could they be right?  As a parts dealer, I suggest you buy any of a number of parts and try them all until you find the correct one. Seriously, it is going to be either the CPS as Dutch mentioned or the K40 relay, which is basically the "mother board" that tells all of the vehicle systems to work in harmony. FYI, the K40 will not throw codes either. It is easy for the techs at the dealer to pull the K40 and check the fuses to see if any are blown, etc. Good luck, -Sean P. |
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discap
Regular
Date registered: Nov 2006
Location: Wichita Kansas
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500
Posts: 63
| RE: It dies and won't start
The K40 relay is the other thing the tech at Europa suggested. According to the Service Manager here, you can actually open the thing up and look inside for burned points etc, just like the old electro-mechanical ones. I hope they will look at that today. Is it cheap enough just to "throw parts at"
Thanks
Bill |
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discap
Regular
Date registered: Nov 2006
Location: Wichita Kansas
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500
Posts: 63
| RE: It dies and won't start
More data, just got off the phone with the dealer. Car was idleing for about 20 minutes and died, no starter. Went to the "Engine Management Unit on back of engine" pulled off the cover and "check a couple of the terminals suggested by Europa" During this process "something on the other side of the car made a whirr and they were able to start the car"
They saw no corrosion or arching on the terminals. Was it coincidence or something else. the mystery continues.
Car is idleing as we speak, "hopeing it will die again"
This sucks, I want to go duck hunting this week. But I don't want to walk back.
Bill  |
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ewalberg
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
| Re: It dies and won't start
i'v had that exact drumming of my speedo for at least a year now... though my tach also sits dead until the speedo is done bouncing. It happened after i got my car back from Art's Body Craft, and i suspect was somehow related to them disconnecting the battery. You should also likely notice that it's reading about 2-5mph too fast and that how slow it reads often varies... seemingly related to where it stops after the drumming.
I'd love to ultimately figure out if there's a fix, though as it is, with my larger tires, my speedo is more accurate with this problem than if i actually fixed it! Such a dilemma.
Never had a starting problem other than way back when i first got it and had a fuel filter/pump failure and a MAF sensor go bad and spark plugs. I'm not 100% it was all bad (in fact i'm nearly 100% convinced stuff didn't all go bad) but Autohaus in Burlingame seems to take the approach of replacing everything they get any related code for rather than verifying and then fixing. |
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| Re: It dies and won't start
I never met a man who let a non-op car stop him from going duck hunting...hasn't stopped me yet. |
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roughneck
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
| RE: It dies and won't start
Good luck to the ducks.   |
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EuroTruck
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oakwood, Georgia - USA
Vehicle(s): 2012 Audi A4 Avant S-Line, 2015 Ridley NOAH SL
Posts: 518
| RE: It dies and won't start
EuroTruck - 11/8/2006 12:07 PM Do not listen to Dutch or Rancher. Between the two of them, there's over 40 years of collective G knowledge, so how in the world could they be right? Ooops! Should have said Roughneck and not Rancher. Bill was 4x4Rancher over on the other forum. Sorry about that. -SP |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Whirr & K40
discap - 11/8/2006 1:41 PM
More data, just got off the phone with the dealer. Car was idleing for about 20 minutes and died, no starter. Went to the "Engine Management Unit on back of engine" pulled off the cover and "check a couple of the terminals suggested by Europa" During this process "something on the other side of the car made a whirr and they were able to start the car"
They saw no corrosion or arching on the terminals. Was it coincidence or something else. the mystery continues.
Car is idleing as we speak, "hopeing it will die again"
This sucks, I want to go duck hunting this week. But I don't want to walk back.
Bill :angry:
That "whirr" could be the air pump located on the top front of the engine - under the front plastic engine cover. It and several other components are controlled by the K40 relay. Sounds like Sean's suggestion has very good merit. Look for blown fuses in it first. There are 2-3 40 Amp blade fuses right at the top. Exchange takes all of 5 minutes, if it's the whole relay unit; and this is another common failure part - especially when there's been some voltage spikes like charging the battery without disconnecting it from the vehicle. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| K40 Relay Module
Looks like the K40 Relay Module may be at the top of your list of culprits. The Ignition/Starter Switch is controlled through this module. So is a lot of other stuff.
Attachments
----------------
 K40_Relay.pdf (109KB - 20 downloads)
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discap
Regular
Date registered: Nov 2006
Location: Wichita Kansas
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500
Posts: 63
| RE: It dies and won't start
The ducks won today.
Still waiting to hear something from the dealer.
I will let you guys know.
Bill |
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roughneck
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
| RE: It dies and won't start
EuroTruck - 11/8/2006 10:29 PM
EuroTruck - 11/8/2006 12:07 PM Do not listen to Dutch or Rancher. Between the two of them, there's over 40 years of collective G knowledge, so how in the world could they be right? Ooops! Should have said Roughneck and not Rancher. Bill was 4x4Rancher over on the other forum. Sorry about that. -SP
Rough Neck Rancher will do nicely  I think it's probably nearer to 50 years and Dutch is ahead. |
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discap
Regular
Date registered: Nov 2006
Location: Wichita Kansas
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500
Posts: 63
| RE: It dies and won't start
After wiggling two connectors on the engine computer (and cleaning others) they have been unable to make it die. I picked it up on Friday, no problems yet. The two connectors are on the passenger side of the computer and labeled A and B in the schematic.
For another data point. Last time it died the mechanic hooked up a remote starter and the starter engaged and turned the enigne over. He then went up and turned the ignition on. The car would not start. So apparantly the shutdown problem and the starter problem are indeed interrealated.
I did learn something new however. These cars have what I think the dealer referred to as TIP (or something similar) starting. You turn the key to start, release it and it continues to crank until the engine starts. I do not remember seeing this in the owners manual. I knew that the new cars with the big funny looking key did it. The tech at Europa pointed this out.
The saga continues.
Bill |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: It dies and won't start
discap - 11/13/2006 11:10 AM
After wiggling two connectors on the engine computer (and cleaning others) they have been unable to make it die. I picked it up on Friday, no problems yet. The two connectors are on the passenger side of the computer and labeled A and B in the schematic.
Are talking about inside the electronic storage box located on the passenger side of the engine firewall? Also, to which schematic are you refering? |
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