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Maxwell Smart
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: G's and the environment...
As I said in an earlier post I do consider myself to an extent and eco-evangelist and that is in a manner how I make my living.
My G is definitely my Achilles Heal in the eyes of eco-Joe Public. However as the last few posts have pointed out, I would actually argue that the G is perhaps one of the most environmentally responsible vehicles on the road if one considers the dust to dust lifecycle of a car from conception through to scrap heap. I had started writing an essay on this in response to a journalist and when time allows will finish it but the premise focuses on the three Rs of Environmental Responsibility - Reduce, Reuse and Recycle in order of importance.
But to summarise.
- A vast amount of waste is generated in the design and production of a car, particularly those that are having facelifts every other year. The G has had one not so major face lift in 25 years – the environmental cost to design the G and maintain production is low.
- The actual production footprint of the G is equally low. They are not building moulds, dies and what not that are only being used for a few years before being discarded on a regular basis. It is something like 70% built by hand reducing the need for further machinery (and the energy to run that machinery) and contributing to employment.
- Most of the parts are sourced locally – Germany/Austria.
- Those parts that are not handmade are generally borrowed from MB saloon cars reducing the need to create specialist moulds etc.
- The body is metal and hence easier and more environmentally friendly to recycle when compared to injection moulded plastics. Recycling is not always the Holy Grail that many think it is as it is very energy intensive in many cases such as with plastic. For a long time people in North America were advocating paper bags as more environmentally friendly when in reality plastic bags are far often found to have a smaller negative impact.
- There is very little plastic on the G compared to contemporary cars.
- The car is built to last. How many cars other than the G can claim to have 90% of their production since their inception still on (or off) the road?
- Those that do meet their end are largely broken down and stripped for parts which are then used to keep other Gs roadworthy.
- For the most part G drivers tend to drive more sensibly. The CO2 emissions from a Mini Cooper S are just as great as a G on paper and in reality probably far worse as they will be driven by someone with a lead foot.
- The Prius? Consider the volumes of plastic, design costs, batteries (how environmentally friendly or easy to recycle are they?), shipping – they are hardly a local import unless you happen to live in Japan. And how many 2007 Prius’ do you expect to see on the road in 28 years? Sure you can recycle the plastics etc but recycling is the last resort in the chain and on top of which most of the plastic recycling needs to be done in Asia so lets ship the now disused car back….
Essentially Gs are kept on the road far longer than most cars which neatly fills the first two Rs in many respects. The last R? Well with 90% still on the road, Gs hardly ever need to get that far do they?
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Maxwell Smart
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
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| Re: G's and the environment...
G350DT - 5/17/2007 6:39 PM
99% of all things that have ever lived on earth have died off. It is probably about our time. People forget there are some things that they can not stop.
Life is 100% terminal, no one has beat it yet
Very true - we won't destroy the planet. We will destroy our ability to live on the planet. Mother Earth will adapt and keep on ticking for another few billion years more without humans. After all we as humans have only been on it for the last 1 minute of the last four months....
Edited by Maxwell Smart 5/17/2007 1:52 PM
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Ducks
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: G's and the environment...
I just wanted to comment on the ice in a water glass example. (I have a degree in Physics and my master's research was in glaciology. As an aside, I find this thread very discouraging.) When ice melt in a glass, the water level stays the same. The same thing happens when an ice shelf (which floats on water) melts. When a glacier or ice cap, which is on land (such as Greenland or Western Antarctica), melts then the water flows into the ocean and the ocean level rises. There is a consensus among scientists about global warming and the rate of increase is unprecidented according to ice cores.
Chad :cheers:. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9965
| RE: G's and the environment...
jcaine - 5/17/2007 12:31 PM
In the meantime if you want to make a difference there are some real EASY ways to do it... here are some:
Use flourescent light bulbs
And increase mercury pollution.
It's all a matter of take and give. |
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Woody
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bend, Ore.
Vehicle(s): '84 280GE -> 300GD turbo, '84 300SD veg, 06 Navion
Posts: 570
| RE: G's and the environment...
Very interesting thread. Just want to add here in Bend, most of the air pollution is from construction equipment, and they're all diesels. Dust, smoke and CO2 all add to the general warming, and de-forestation only makes the sponge smaller. I work at home, ride a bike when I can (and I'm teaching my kids how to fix flats & maintain their bikes) but it always is sad when I go out to the trailhead (2 miles from my house) and the parking lot is FULL of SUV's and Pickups, some of them Huge! Geez the ride to the trailhead is a great warm-up!
Maybe I should have posted this here instead of OT:
"Save Energy, Buy a Hummer"
http://www.machinedesign.com/ASP/viewSelectedArticle.asp?strArticle...
Thanks. |
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Container
Veteran
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Sweden
Vehicle(s): 1998 G500L, 1994 E36 AMG Coupé, 2007 E500T 4-matic
Posts: 114
| Re: G's and the environment...
Of course we are wasting tremendous amounts of energy, without even thinking about it.
Just one example; When I was a kid, we handwashed our clothes and hanged them to dry, once a week. Today the washing machines and tumble dryers are spinning every day in houses with kids. If such habits will spread with the wealth all around the globe, our G:s consumption may represent one second of the yearly use of energy to wash our clothes... perhaps this second could be cut in half by working from home as I do, not a bad contribution?
And about the ice and levels of the oceans, a good portion of the ice on earth today is landbased and will eventually end up as water in the oceans. Which will definitely raise the levels. |
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bbrah
Regular
Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle(s): 460.233 (1980 280GE LWB)
Posts: 68
| RE: G's and the environment...
"I live large... mutiple houses, cars, animals, etc... I just try to do the best I can and for me, a life long lover of all things motor, it means being a little more considerate , practical, and responsible with the way I use my vehicles..." -J Caine
You are a hypocrite. What is the point of your rant, to brag about your conspicious consumption? Do you actually beleive that using flourescent lights somehow offsets your lifestyle, or are you simply trying to rationalize away some of your guilt?
It doesn't matter anyway, because the truth of the matter is that less than 15 percent of carbon emissions come from mobile sources and slightly more than half of that from private automobiles. Convincing tools like you to reduce consumption is a ruse to take the pressure off giant commercial polluters.
If you really want to make a personal impact on global warming, stop eating meat. It takes 20 pounds of grain to make 1 pound of meat, and both have to be transported and processed, not to mention that animals produce massive amounts of methane (which has a significantly greater effect on global warming than CO2).
As for me, I'm going to continue to eat steak and drive a Gwagen, and I'm not going to feel one bit of guilt about either. |
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Merz-Ben
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Floyds Knobs, IN 47119
Vehicle(s): 230G, U1200, U1250 DoKa, U1300L, U1500, U1700, 416
Posts: 377
| RE: G's and the environment...
Ducks - 5/17/2007 2:03 PM
I just wanted to comment on the ice in a water glass example. (I have a degree in Physics and my master's research was in glaciology. As an aside, I find this thread very discouraging.) When ice melt in a glass, the water level stays the same. The same thing happens when an ice shelf (which floats on water) melts. When a glacier or ice cap, which is on land (such as Greenland or Western Antarctica), melts then the water flows into the ocean and the ocean level rises. There is a consensus among scientists about global warming and the rate of increase is unprecidented according to ice cores.
Chad :cheers:.
I apologise for my ignorance... I did not take into account for the ice on land (as my 3 professors that gave this deminstration in their classes must not have either).
Edited by Merz-Ben 5/17/2007 2:52 PM
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jcaine
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
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| RE: G's and the environment...
bbrah - 5/17/2007 2:31 PM
"I live large... mutiple houses, cars, animals, etc... I just try to do the best I can and for me, a life long lover of all things motor, it means being a little more considerate , practical, and responsible with the way I use my vehicles..." -J Caine
You are a hypocrite. What is the point of your rant, to brag about your conspicious consumption? Do you actually beleive that using flourescent lights somehow offsets your lifestyle, or are you simply trying to rationalize away some of your guilt?
It doesn't matter anyway, because the truth of the matter is that less than 15 percent of carbon emissions come from mobile sources and slightly more than half of that from private automobiles. Convincing tools like you to reduce consumption is a ruse to take the pressure off giant commercial polluters.
If you really want to make a personal impact on global warming, stop eating meat. It takes 20 pounds of grain to make 1 pound of meat, and both have to be transported and processed, not to mention that animals produce massive amounts of methane (which has a significantly greater effect on global warming than CO2).
As for me, I'm going to continue to eat steak and drive a Gwagen, and I'm not going to feel one bit of guilt about either.
don't like someone's opinion so you attack from the safety of your keyboard... very admirable and brave. |
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mb230s
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SWFL
Vehicle(s): G-less for now, vintage MBs, FJ40
| Re: G's and the environment...
Maxwell - brilliantly said. |
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G350DT
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: G's and the environment...
I am still going to drive my G. At least it is diesel and I get about 22 to 25. MPG
Lets all blame the Ewocks they are bad to the bone |
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Jonathan Joseph
Expert
Date registered: Oct 2006
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
Vehicle(s): 2004 G55
Posts: 1538
| RE: G's and the environment...
I've sat back and watched this thread with both interest and dread. I know my level of understanding in regards to the enviroment. It's not great, but what I do know I've tried tried to verify from as many sources as possible, not so I can regurgitate it to others and beat my chest, but so I can use the information to make decisions about how I should live my life.
I'm amazed at the wide variety of opinions and the way so many of them are brazenly offered as "fact" yet with no empirical evidence or willingness to disclose the sources of the evidence.
I was raised in the house of a world class research scientist( my Dad) and I think I understood the following by the time I was 6 or 7 years old.
Scientific method is a body of techniques for investigating phenomena and acquiring new knowledge, as well as for correcting and integrating previous knowledge. It is based on gathering observable, empirical, measurable evidence, subject to specific principles of reasoning.[1]
If you don't understand the scientific method you should probably stay out of conversations on science.
Also it's pretty widely accepted that "intelligent" debate on global warming has ceased, because all of the sincere researchers in the world who aren't on the payroll of a special interest group have agreed it's a fact, and that the causes are clear.
Jonathan |
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bbrah
Regular
Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle(s): 460.233 (1980 280GE LWB)
Posts: 68
| RE: G's and the environment...
What do you expect?!? You attack people who use their Gs as daily-drivers, and then spout BS about saving the planet because you use biodiesel and have motion sensors on your yard lights. There are hundreds of common-sense behaviors that people do every day to reduce their individual impacts on the environment. They shop at local farmer's markets, ride their bicycles, compost, recycle, put solar screens on their houses, xeriscape their yards, install low-flush toilets, keep their tires aired properly, change the oil regularly, yada yada yada. It's just that most people don't flaunt these activities with such self-righteousness.
I'm not going to get into a pissing match about how many more resources you WASTE compared to what I do.
But I will pose one question (OK maybe two): How many square feet of house(s) do you heat and cool? How many people live in them?
Since as you say, it is all "opinion," I'll venture that my post-war crackerbox house would fit in your garage next to the "Beloved 993TT."
I don't have a problem with wealth, hell, I don't even have a problem with conspicious consumption, I do have a problem with people spewing nonsense to justify their own excesses while simultaneously accusing others of the same.
It's good that you are making an honest attempt to conserve resources; every little bit helps. Just don't be so pious... and don't expect the Sierra Club to give you any awards. |
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jcaine
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: G's and the environment...
bbrah - 5/18/2007 2:16 AM
What do you expect?!? You attack people who use their Gs as daily-drivers, and then spout BS about saving the planet because you use biodiesel and have motion sensors on your yard lights. There are hundreds of common-sense behaviors that people do every day to reduce their individual impacts on the environment. They shop at local farmer's markets, ride their bicycles, compost, recycle, put solar screens on their houses, xeriscape their yards, install low-flush toilets, keep their tires aired properly, change the oil regularly, yada yada yada. It's just that most people don't flaunt these activities with such self-righteousness.
I'm not going to get into a pissing match about how many more resources you WASTE compared to what I do.
But I will pose one question (OK maybe two): How many square feet of house(s) do you heat and cool? How many people live in them?
Since as you say, it is all "opinion," I'll venture that my post-war crackerbox house would fit in your garage next to the "Beloved 993TT."
I don't have a problem with wealth, hell, I don't even have a problem with conspicious consumption, I do have a problem with people spewing nonsense to justify their own excesses while simultaneously accusing others of the same.
It's good that you are making an honest attempt to conserve resources; every little bit helps. Just don't be so pious... and don't expect the Sierra Club to give you any awards.
I would respond to this but I don't engage people I don't know on personal issues in forums... not an efficient use of emotion or energy... I'm sorry if you or anyone else felt attacked by what I wrote... it was not my intention. |
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bbrah
Regular
Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle(s): 460.233 (1980 280GE LWB)
Posts: 68
| RE: G's and the environment...
That's cool, we can discuss it over a Courvoisier and a Cohiba next time I'm at the Playboy mansion.
Peace out.
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elevatorbernie
Expert
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Vehicle(s): 1989 280GE
Posts: 1347
| RE: G's and the environment...
It's not how much fuel you burn but what comes out the pipe after that's the problem. My G's fuel consumption isn't that bad when compared to some suvs...however when you compare the emissions it a different story. My G is dirty! it is a big polluter... I feel guilty driving it  It probably spews out double that of a H2 |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9965
| RE: G's and the environment...
elevatorbernie - 5/18/2007 4:34 AM
I feel guilty driving it
Sounds like a good reason to change rides. |
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mb230s
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SWFL
Vehicle(s): G-less for now, vintage MBs, FJ40
| RE: G's and the environment...
elevatorbernie - 5/18/2007 3:34 AM
It's not how much fuel you burn but what comes out the pipe after that's the problem. My G's fuel consumption isn't that bad when compared to some suvs...however when you compare the emissions it a different story. My G is dirty! it is a big polluter... I feel guilty driving it It probably spews out double that of a H2
Pretty short-sighted. Do you think the acquisition of crude and production of fuel is without environmental consequences? Focusing only on the tailpipe won't solve anything. I'm no expert, but I'd suspect this type of mentality is actually worse, or at least negates many of the gains by forcing greater consumption and greater supply chain impact. |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: G's and the environment...
Its all your fault Photoman |
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discap
Regular
Date registered: Nov 2006
Location: Wichita Kansas
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500
Posts: 63
| Re: G's and the environment...
As far as sources go, get a chemical engineering degree like I did or simply Google "Greenhouse Effect" you will find more info than you care to read. To bad Al Gore didn't bother to do any research before he got on the big screen. |
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