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bbrah
Regular
Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle(s): 460.233 (1980 280GE LWB)
Posts: 68
| RE: G's and the environment...
elevatorbernie,
If it'll make you sleep better at night, I'll give you a Honda Civic, a bicycle, two pairs of Birkenstocks, and an autographed copy of "An Inconvenient Truth" for your truck. Tell me where to meet you, and I'll be there.
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JamesG
Regular
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Vehicle(s): 2011 G550, 2000 L.C.,1997 L.C.1987 FJ60
Posts: 98
| RE: G's and the environment...
First thanks for starting this thread, and sorry I got off topic Dutch. Second, the 1000 scientists you speak for probably have an agenda, just like the 1000 scientists who disagree. The graph shown simply shows we've warmed some starting 140 years ago. Let's see some meaningful data going back much further. Also this data does not take into account temperature differences of the sun. After 25 years of work with the Dept of Energy, I can assure you within the DOE not everone agrees.
I do know there is some exciting research within the DOE complex, particularly at INL (Idaho Natl. Lab), Sandia, Los Alamos, to name a few.
My point in the other thread was that SUVs are not the bad guys the environmental left make them out to be. They are easy targets and there are bigger targets to pick on. For the left it is more about conspicous consumption than anything else.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
-Dennis Miller |
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jcaine
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: G's and the environment...
why do people have to become sarcastic, nasty, and insulting when they read another's opinion that doesn't coincide with their own?... especially in this environment (that is to say on-line message boards, forums, blogs)... it's not productive in any way.
In one sense I feel very strongly in general about this subject and I'll keep talking about it whether it ruffles feathers or not... on the other hand this forum is very helpful and insightful, full of knowlegable G enthusiasts (and just a few haters) and for my part , I'm sorry if I was the catalyst to any unpleasantry in here.
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mb230s
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SWFL
Vehicle(s): G-less for now, vintage MBs, FJ40
| Re: G's and the environment...
discap - 5/18/2007 9:52 AM
As far as sources go, get a chemical engineering degree like I did or simply Google "Greenhouse Effect" you will find more info than you care to read. To bad Al Gore didn't bother to do any research before he got on the big screen.
Too bad people actually believe what that windbag claims.  |
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JamesG
Regular
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Vehicle(s): 2011 G550, 2000 L.C.,1997 L.C.1987 FJ60
Posts: 98
| RE: G's and the environment...
I have followed the research since 1975, and watched all of the environmental legislation beginning with RCRA, Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, etc, and I have to say we do more than most countries. I don't know what Europe was doing in the seventies, but it was less than the US. In fact if some of you remember the environmental movement of the late sixties, early seventies is what we are seeing again today. Just an observation. |
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JamesG
Regular
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Vehicle(s): 2011 G550, 2000 L.C.,1997 L.C.1987 FJ60
Posts: 98
| RE: G's and the environment...
One more entry, The naive environmental left are the ones I am afraid of. We all have one notion in common and that is we don't want to dirty our nest, but it is difficult. My focus would be and is developing nations i.e. Mexico, China of course, the old soviet republics, some in South America, and Africa. Some of these countries don't give a rats ass what refrigerant you are using, or for that matter what you would be dumping in a river or the air. Go after these people! The self loathing louts in this country are shooting arrows at each other, This is obsurd. On a side note this thread did hit that nerve in that rotten molar  |
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mb230s
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SWFL
Vehicle(s): G-less for now, vintage MBs, FJ40
| Re: G's and the environment...
Many of these so called "improvements" are actually worse. I've heard from a few people that R12 is actually less harmful the the replacement R134. |
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bbrah
Regular
Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle(s): 460.233 (1980 280GE LWB)
Posts: 68
| RE: G's and the environment...
This is nothing new. There is a great deal of misunderstanding about the Gwagen. While some people really do know the performance capabilities of their trucks and actually use them at the edge, for a LOT of others the G is simply a $100 grand status symbol.
We've had our share of people on the boards asking where to find 24" wheels, lowering kits, chrome accessories etc. just like we've had people complaining about the "harsh" ride quality or low MPG. For the most part these types completely miss the point of the Gwagen. They could care less about approach angles, traverse angles, unmodified fording depth, or locking differentials; they just want a cool and exclusive vehicle.
Before MBUSA started importing them, new Gwagens cost $150K and the vast majority of owners were enthusiansts. Used trucks were coveted, and it was common in the community to know the previous owner(s) and the history of your truck. Now with more than 10,000 trucks imported since 2002, prices have dropped and a clean used example can be had in the $40's. This is a boon to enthusiasts, but we're also seeing a lot of clueless but well-heeled suburbanites and urban gangstas driving Gwagens; many of whom would be much happier with the performance and amenities of an Escalade, Tahoe, or H2.
I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself, but I wheel the crap out of my G and it just seems like a damn shame to have one of these great trucks and not use it for the purpose it was designed. |
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Maxwell Smart
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: G's and the environment...
Firstly - I am loving this thread. Even if people are jumping at each others throats, its interesting to hear people's points. But I find it a shame that many of you aren't expounding on your points. It would be good to hear more on people's views and with what reasoning they came to them.
JamesG - 5/18/2007 6:12 PM
One more entry, The naive environmental left are the ones I am afraid of.
Call me a sceptical environmentalist but I am afraid of this too and as mentioned particularly the short sighted self righteous hybrid drivers. I am also very dubious about most carbon offset schemes. Too many people citing the media and looking for a quick fix solution and a scapegoat which unfortunately is often the 4x4. Just look at the photo that accompanies this article .But unfortunately as Dutch points out its give and take and when people point out a solution then everybody jumps on it without facing the consequences. One of my dilemmas is my use of veggie oil. While I see it as a great alternative to fossil fuel it is clearly only a stop gap measure. Those of us who use veggie oil as an environmental alternative to fossil fuels need to be aware of the consequences such as what if everybody starts using it? Where are the going to get it from? There aren't enough fish and chip shops to supply WVO to everyone as someone already pointed out as being the case in California. So that means new VO, in which case fields will have to be diverted to grow it and unless it's organic then more pesticides will be needed to support it. It will need to be refined, transported... and then there are the ethical issues of diverting those fields for the use of growing much needed food which could be used to feed starving populations...
JamesG - 5/18/2007 6:12 PM
My focus would be and is developing nations i.e. Mexico, China of course, the old soviet republics, some in South America, and Africa. Some of these countries don't give a rats ass what refrigerant you are using, or for that matter what you would be dumping in a river or the air. Go after these people! The self loathing louts in this country are shooting arrows at each other, This is obsurd. On a side note this thread did hit that nerve in that rotten molar :bleh: While this is an obvious course of action since much of the current and future environmental impact will be made in developing nations we are confronted with the issues Harald pointed out. Which is its fine for us in a developed nation to say "Yes we used that method to become rich, but you can't as its bad for the environment...." Can we blame them for wanting what we have? In order to prevent this we need to give them the support to obtain our lifestyle without needing to resort to techniques we resorted to when creating "the west."
Unfortunately there are no easy solutions.... But for me I think the environmental issues aren't so much Global Warming per se, but more the fact that we are polluting our rivers, clear cutting forests, driving species to extinction and generally changing the world to become a concrete jungle. I grew up playing in the wilderness and I want my grandchildren to be able to do the same....
Sorry JamesG - didn't mean to pick on your thread - but it just happened to be the one that made me think of all these issues which have been floating in my head as of late.... 
Edited by Maxwell Smart 5/18/2007 5:09 PM
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: G's and the environment...
Max,
"I grew up playing in the wilderness and I want my grandchildren to be able to do the same...." is an argument that I hear a lot. And I agree in the sense that "Wouldn't be wonderful if (some of) the next generation could enjoy wilderness and solitude?"
However, just by glancing at the interest of kids today - they are more interested in playing computer games than paying attention to your friggin wilderness talk. Your grandchildren might even care less - let alone know what wilderness is. Sad, but the indicators don't show much future for wilderness.
Take your kids every possible weekend and you might have a chance. |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: G's and the environment...
Agent 86, I don't think there is worry that everyone will be using WVO or even vegetable oil. Most vehicles are gas powered, diesel heads are a stubborn minority. I think it is great that there are refineries popping up to take the huge volume of spent cooking oil and turning it into Bio diesel. Here in Oregon there is a big push for this and many municipal busses are running bio diesel. There is a potato chip maker called Kettle Foods that is using pure oils and then making sure that the oil coming out of the factory goes into bio diesel. They make a lot of chips and use a lot of oil. Their products are nationally and perhaps internationally distributed. There are chains of fast food stores like Burgerville that use high quality oils and do the same thing. Even conventional fast food places are moving away from hydrogenated oils and are using pure oils. Most people wouldn't want to go through the hassel of making fuel out of waste oil. It is a direct connection to making the vehicle go that takes effort. We don't have a TV. I make the time to filter oil and pay attention to this forum.
-Dai
Edited by dai 5/18/2007 10:05 PM
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jcaine
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: G's and the environment...
two things come to my mind after thinking about this today...
One is that whether you beleive in global warming or not, I think everyone can agree that pollution is bad and the use of fossil fuel both industrial and personal is a major cause of air pollution... EVERYONE can do a little better if they want to and I beleive that if everyone made some effort, major changes for the better could happen... I beleive less finger pointing in general and more self responsibility would go a long way in helping everyone...
Two and this is an aside... I grew up in a tough city with a lot of tough guys. Where I'm from you learned real quick to mind your manners in general as mouthing off to people you didn't know (and some you did) could result very quickly in a black eye or a cracked jaw... when I got older and moved to California it amazed me how quick people were to flip you off or curse you out from the perceived safety of their vehicles but if those same people happened to get caught at the next red light, yanked out of their cars, and let's say confronted for their recent actions, they would be singing a completely different song. Well, I've noticed this same phenominon in web forums, message boards, and blogs... people are real quick to hurl insults and personal disrespect from the safety of their key board when it's sure 99% of those same people would NEVER say those kind of things to your face... My point?... very simply I don't make a habit of flaming people I don't know, calling people names, or generally treating them with disrespect in an internet forum and I don't see why others feel the need to... you have no idea if that person is a preist, someone's grandmother, etc. so why lace your opinion with venom? Why not be nice even if you disagree?... that's all I'm saying |
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Jamison
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: G's and the environment...
I have the answer! We should send Al Gore and his team of "environmental experts" to China, India, Russia, and Africa so they can tell those parts of the world to clean up their act since none of them give a flying f**k about pollution. Then when they are done they can stop off in Iraq and tell the terrorists who set the oil wells on fire to please stop because its bad for the environment. On the return trip home, they can stop and yell at the wildfires in Georgia and NJ because they are polluting as well.
In all honesty I think we as americans should just stop being so wasteful and careless in everyday life. As the richest and most envied country on the planet we are accustomed to excess. If for nothing else, do it because its cheaper!
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Tone
One of the reasons that I like to participate on this board is that there is a great attention to civility and respect for one another. People tend to read what they have to say before pushing the Send button. Act casual, remain calm. "We're all in this together."
-Dai |
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jcaine
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: G's and the environment...
I didn't have time until tonight to do any fact checking...
just google IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change... an international consortium of 2000 of the worlds most renowned scientists who just issued the most comprehensive report ever on climate change... not refuted by a single reputable scientist... no left or right wing agenda... just scientific fact with tons of back up data...
or "government report on climate change" and you can read till the cows come home... draw your own conclusions.
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elevatorbernie
Expert
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Vehicle(s): 1989 280GE
Posts: 1347
| RE: G's and the environment...
DUTCH - 5/18/2007 2:40 AM
elevatorbernie - 5/18/2007 4:34 AM
I feel guilty driving it 
Sounds like a good reason to change rides.  then I will be guilt free  Though given Mercedes engineering and the way things are going here in BC ; the government will probably legislate it of the road before it dies. Some of you may remember my smog test woes, well I ended up gettting an allowance from the smog office to test at lower 1987 standards (my G 1990). It's only a matter of time before they make the standards harder. That reminds me...I got to get that cat installed again, test coming up in Nov. However I could use the extra power pulling the boat this summer....oh the guilt  Oh Crap.....90 hp 2 stroke outboard motor spitting oily ehaust into the sea...not good. I'm killing the outdoors I love...sorry Earth. There is no solution we are all in big trouble. 
Edited by elevatorbernie 5/19/2007 2:00 AM
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elevatorbernie
Expert
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Vehicle(s): 1989 280GE
Posts: 1347
| RE: G's and the environment...
bbrah - 5/18/2007 8:28 AM
elevatorbernie,
If it'll make you sleep better at night, I'll give you a Honda Civic, a bicycle, two pairs of Birkenstocks, and an autographed copy of "An Inconvenient Truth" for your truck. Tell me where to meet you, and I'll be there.
Sorry no deal I will live with my guilt. |
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elevatorbernie
Expert
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Vehicle(s): 1989 280GE
Posts: 1347
| RE: G's and the environment...
mb230s - 5/18/2007 6:19 AM
elevatorbernie - 5/18/2007 3:34 AM
It's not how much fuel you burn but what comes out the pipe after that's the problem. My G's fuel consumption isn't that bad when compared to some suvs...however when you compare the emissions it a different story. My G is dirty! it is a big polluter... I feel guilty driving it It probably spews out double that of a H2
Pretty short-sighted. Do you think the acquisition of crude and production of fuel is without environmental consequences? Focusing only on the tailpipe won't solve anything. I'm no expert, but I'd suspect this type of mentality is actually worse, or at least negates many of the gains by forcing greater consumption and greater supply chain impact.
Edited by elevatorbernie 5/19/2007 3:15 AM
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Jonathan Joseph
Expert
Date registered: Oct 2006
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
Vehicle(s): 2004 G55
Posts: 1538
| RE: G's and the environment...
Harald,
I happen to know a whole generation ( maybe a small one, the kids of my friends) that are growing up to respect the world. Many of my friends don't have television and take their kids out in the woods or on the ocean on a regular basis. Some even live there, ( teepees, cruising sailboats traveling the world.) So keep up the "faith" for what it's worth. I think there is a small group working in the right direction.
Jonathan |
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elevatorbernie
Expert
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Vehicle(s): 1989 280GE
Posts: 1347
| RE: Tone
dai - 5/18/2007 8:03 PM
"We're all in this together."
-Dai The mess of the Earth or the G forum?
Edited by elevatorbernie 5/19/2007 3:17 AM
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