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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| Hello and Engine Hesitation
Recently, I have been noticing a rough idle and hesitation from my 85 280 GE at stop lights. Once, the car has even hesitated itself out and died, another time, I stepped on the gas, the car went, then felt like it went dead, and then went again, on and off for about 150 feet. Recently I replaced the starter, nice to know the old wrench to the side of the starter trick still works when the bad one left me stranded. However, is my current problem more representative of clogged fuel lines/filter or could it be a spark plug issue etc? I'm really trying to figure this one out on my own. I'm a bit curious because while I know that you SHOULD be able to run 87 Octane through the vehicle, when I bought the car from Capt. Spalding, he said, the car was happiest with 91, didn't fully elaborateas to why. At first I ran 91 only, however, with gas being $3.61 a gallon for 91 at my local stations and having the 25 gallon tank, $3.41 for plus(89) seemed like a fair compromise. Could the lower octane fuel combined with an older motor be the culprit? Also, my battery light on the instrument cluster has a tendency to stay on a bit longer than the other lights, even though the car has a fairly new mercedes benz battery in it...
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Hello and Engine Hesitation
Adoni - 5/8/2006 6:06 PM
Recently, I have been noticing a rough idle and hesitation from my 85 280 GE at stop lights. Once, the car has even hesitated itself out and died, another time, I stepped on the gas, the car went, then felt like it went dead, and then went again, on and off for about 150 feet. Recently I replaced the starter, nice to know the old wrench to the side of the starter trick still works when the bad one left me stranded. However, is my current problem more representative of clogged fuel lines/filter or could it be a spark plug issue etc? I'm really trying to figure this one out on my own. I'm a bit curious because while I know that you SHOULD be able to run 87 Octane through the vehicle, when I bought the car from Capt. Spalding, he said, the car was happiest with 91, didn't fully elaborateas to why. At first I ran 91 only, however, with gas being $3.61 a gallon for 91 at my local stations and having the 25 gallon tank, $3.41 for plus(89) seemed like a fair compromise. Could the lower octane fuel combined with an older motor be the culprit? Also, my battery light on the instrument cluster has a tendency to stay on a bit longer than the other lights, even though the car has a fairly new mercedes benz battery in it...
Is your timing set per the factory, or is it advanced? Advanced timing gives better power and economy, but requires higher octane. |
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| RE: Hello and Engine Hesitation
No, the timing has not been advanced, that was one of the questions I asked Captain Spalding when I bought the vehicle from him and he mentioned the 91 octane fuel...would make sense tho. |
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| RE: Hello and Engine Hesitation
Anyone? |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Hello and Engine Hesitation
Higher compression motors require higher octane fuel. Higher octane fuel is designed to slow down the burn instead of violently exploding it causing detonation, pinging, knocking etc. Try running premium and some BG fuel additive to help clean things out.
You might take out the plugs to see what they look like. But try one thing at a time.
The battery light is not an indication of battery condition, it is a charging light that lets you know if the charging system is not functioning. If it stays on you have a likely issue like the alternator is not working or there is a problem with the voltage regulator. On some vehicles it does not go out until a certain RPM is hit and things are charging nicely. Probably no worries there.
-Dai |
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| RE: Hello and Engine Hesitation
I guess my confusion is this, the compression on the 110 motor in the 280GE is supposed to be somewhere in the 8's, the motor for the sedans was in the 9's, the supposed justification for this was that the G-Wagen was designed to operate in places with crappy fuel. After speaking to Capt. Spalding, he confirmed that when the vehicle was rebuilt, he maintained the original compression and parts rather than opting for the 180hp hot rod upgrades of the sedan motor. The reason for this being that California has some of the most fascist emission laws in the world, if not THE MOST. If this is true, technically the motor should operate fine on 87 octane, and currently I run 89 and have twice run Lucas Oil cleanser through the motor. I will take your advice and check out all of the plugs and gaps and see if I can find somethiung wrong there. As for the battery light, it doesnt always happen just sometimes, and a good rev of the motor generally knocks the light right out. I find it hard to believe that there is a problem with the alternator as Captain Spalding recently replaced the alternator before I purchased the vehicle. As an aside I also checked to see if it was the air conditioner causing the problem and thankfully it was not. Not that I really run the air conditioner all that much. Most of my driving in the G-Wagen these days is around town. I drive 70 miles roundtrip to work everyday and my ML is getting in the neighborhood of 18.5mpg, quite a lot better than the G. However, I must say the G has performed like a champ both hunting and venturing to Tahoe...I just jump in the lane with the big rigs lol. |
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G-AMG
G-Class DIY Host
Date registered: May 2006
Location: South Texas
Vehicle(s): '04 G55, '80 280GE, '99 S420, '98 E320, 2011 E350
| RE: Hello and Engine Hesitation
Dutch,
When you say "Advanced" timing, how far may one go running on 93 Octane?? |
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| RE: Hello and Engine Hesitation
As I haven't tried it, I really couldn't tell you. Sorry, Dutch or Brent are probably your best bets on that answer. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Hello and Engine Hesitation
G-AMG - 5/9/2006 1:03 PM
Dutch,
When you say "Advanced" timing, how far may one go running on 93 Octane??
My leaky memory no longer remembers what the factory number is for the M110. I used to run +3° from spec on my 84 280GE. While it would run on 87 octane, it liked 89 octane much better; and 91-93 octane didn't seem to do any better than 89. Hope that helps. |
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Ernest T Bass
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: Hello and Engine Hesitation
First check the simple things. Plugs and cables – don’t attempt to remove the plug leads without a pair of plug pliers as you will wreck the cable and they are expensive.
Stalling as you describe can be caused by many things: from fuel to electrical faults. When my tuck was stalling it was as simple as turning up the idle speed as the tacho was under reading by over 300 rpm when checked with a timing light.
In order to check the fuel injection you need pressure gauges and its best left to a Bosch injection specialist. The injection system on the 110 engine is simple and totally mechanical. You should be able to find a local shop to check it out. Changing the fuel filter is worth doing and relatively simple and really should be done at the service intervals.
You can try taking off the air filter pipe over the throttle intake next to the fuel distributor on the right hand side of the engine (from the front) and clean the air meter flap around the edge That sometimes gets dirty and sticky causing idle problems. It should move up and down smoothly.
Check the condition of the air filter too.
On the electrical front other than plugs and leads, the coil and ignition unit can all cause stalling – the best way to deal with those is to substitute with ones that are known to be good. They can be almost impossible to diagnose.
I run my truck with 4 degree extra advance which from memory makes it 34 btdc. There is a noticeable improvement in power and better fuel economy and that is on the crappy grade European stuff 92 by whatever method they use. I haven’t noticed any problems with it yet.
I would agree with Dai on the charge warning light – I believe you can replace the brushes and regulator quite cheaply.
Good Luck
Edited by Ernest T Bass 5/9/2006 2:28 PM
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| RE: Hello and Engine Hesitation
And this is why I love the New Old G-Wagen forum....thank god you guys got this set up |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| New Forum
Adoni - 5/9/2006 2:16 PM
And this is why I love the New Old G-Wagen forum....thank god you guys got this set up
This is the new new G-wagen Forum. BW is the new old Forum.  |
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| RE: Hello and Engine Hesitation
Whatever it is, those email messages regarding my 6 different passwords just take up alot of better utilized space in my email inbox... |
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Brent
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
| RE: Hello and Engine Hesitation
Lets start out by trying to identify and fix ONE problem at a time. I do not think the battery/charging system light is a problem, so lets concentrate on the rough idle and stumble.
Have you changed the fuel filter? That is the first, least expensive step to take. I would assume that C.S. was all over that but still, different fuel sources can do funny things to old steel gas tanks. Change the filter, and only the filter to see if there is an improvement. That is the other trick to tracking this down, one change at a time.
As mentioned there are a bunch of other tests and fixes. Setting the mixture requires a gas tester. Checking the various pressures likely require a shop with the tools.
One other thing I am curious about is whether or not the idle speed screw actually controls the idle speed. If opening it up doesn't increase the idle you may have a vacuum leak issue. It is the big white slotted plastic screw near the throttle body. Mess with that a little AFTER you determine whether or not the new fuel filter made a difference, and BE PATIENT, it will save you money.
As to the octane issue, it certainly should run just fine on low octane fuel. In CO due to the altitude our low octane is 85 and my truck runs great on it. I have my timing advanced 2 degrees over the stock spec. I have no ping problem even on the 85 oct fuel. Can you get more power by advancing the timing and running higher octane? Maybe just a little. 34-36 degrees total advance is about all a street engine is going to need or tolerate. With the low compression I doubt it gains you anything to go beyond that. If you do not get any pinging(pre-ignition/detonation) with your timing setting and the lowest octane fuel, there is nothing gained by simply buying higher octane fuel. You buy it if you need it, that is my rule. My old Buick has 10.5:1 compression and 36 degrees of timing. It needs premium. It was dyno'ed with race gas (100 octane) first and on pump 92 after initial settings were dialed in. It made more power on the lower octane fuel. As mentioned, octane is its resistance to burning. Higher is not always better.
Maybe after the FF change run GAS treatment throught it, not an oil treatment as mentioned. One of the best is Techron by Chevron. After the FF change run two tanks through with a GOOD fuel additive. That is the patience part 
Let us know how it goes, do the simple stuff first. |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Hello and Engine Hesitation
BG 44k is an excellent fuel addiitive that can actually do something. Redline SI-1 is also excellent.
-Dai |
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G350DT
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Hello and Engine Hesitation
I had the same issue with my 230 and it turned out the diaphram in the carb was just worn out and though it was not leaking it was causing this issue.
Replace that and I bet you will be golden.
Give it try |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Hello and Engine Hesitation
His G has Einspritzer. Fuel Injection. A good thought though.
-Dai |
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G350DT
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: Hello and Engine Hesitation
Well darn, that would of been to easy huh |
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| RE: Hello and Engine Hesitation
You guys have all been great, as you may have noticed from a previous post I am having some engine temp issues. So when I get the car back from my buddy's body shop, I'm planning to replace the fuel filter and run some C w/T additive or B44k, I've actually used both of these products before. In the meantime I need to flush my cooling system and put some good stuff in there, all the while, crossing my fingers and hoping I dont need a new radiator... |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Hello and Engine Hesitation
Didn't look at the engine temp issue post yet but one common problem with these early trucks is clogging of the outside of the radiator fins. Bug gack and dirt. Put a flashlight or trouble light behind it and check that out. A radiator shop that can do a flush or rod out of the interior of the radiator can also dip it in an acid bath that will disolve the exterior clogging. Something would have to be seriously wrong to warrant a new one. The old brass tank units are pretty easily cleaned and put back into service.
-Dai |
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