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Freek
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Zululand South Africa
Vehicle(s): 2000 290GDT, 1985 280GE, 83 300GD in process
Posts: 364
| 280GE power loss and stall issues
My 280GE lately started losing power, then stalls and does not want to re-start for about 5 to 10 minutes after which it starts normal. Initially it would lose power, come to a near standstill and would then immediately take again. I had it serviced and replaced fuel filters. The fuel pump sounds normal and the fuel relay has been replaced recently (maybe 20 000 km ago)
After service it ran fine for a while (few km's) and then did the same thing. I do not use the car myself but one of my employees do for work on a site and this is how he explains it. My guys reported today that it appears that the temperature go up when it happens. Running the car on idle tonight to try and simulate the problem i noted a "jumpy" temp gauge. However as Murphy dictates the same problem did not appear (until i left the garage to pick up something when it died while idling - i then started it again after a few minutes it took and ran flawlessly until i got fed up waiting and switched it off)
i know that somebody posted something a while ago but i cannot remember what to search under.
Any wisdom on this behavior?
Regards
Freek
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: 280GE power loss and stall issues
I remember from my 460 days (300GD and 280GE) that when the engine gets too hot in the desert, it will not start again (some temp sensor?). When cooled down just a few degrees it will start and run fine - until it overheats. 280's are especially sensitive to heat. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: 280GE power loss and stall issues
4x4abc - 3/24/2011 3:37 PM
I remember from my 460 days (300GD and 280GE) that when the engine gets too hot in the desert, it will not start again (some temp sensor?). When cooled down just a few degrees it will start and run fine - until it overheats. 280's are especially sensitive to heat.
I can't speak to the 300GD, but there is no temperature sensor that shuts things off on the 280GE. Vapor lock can do it, though. |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: 280GE power loss and stall issues
In my opinion you should check the fuel pressure in general, and more specifically, maybe the pressure accumulator that's mounted on the frame rail next to the fuel filter. The first sign of a bad accumulator is that the car is hard to restart shortly after being stopped when hot. But if the leak in the accumulator continues to get worse, it can get so bad that the fuel pump can't keep up with the accumulator's shunt back to the tank and you don't get proper fuel pressure or flow. Due to the way the CIS system works, this actually results in a rich running condition and the engine will be "choked" to death with too much fuel. If your spark plugs are real sooty after it quits, that's a sign it's being choked to death with excess fuel.
Electrical things can go bad from heat too, but electrical things are usually more "digital" on or off, not gradual reduction of power. That is unless the power reduction feels like it's due to cylinders dropping out. If that's the case, then it could be a tired ignition coil not keeping up when it's hot. But if all the cylinders seem to be firing as the power is going away (engine still smooth sa power is diminishing) then look to fuel, IMHO.
Good luck!
-Dave G. |
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Inkblotz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
| Re: 280GE power loss and stall issues
Fuel pump vapor lock on the older Mercedes were common. I wonder if that could be the case here if the accumulator checks out OK.
Mark |
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Freek
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Zululand South Africa
Vehicle(s): 2000 290GDT, 1985 280GE, 83 300GD in process
Posts: 364
| Re: 280GE power loss and stall issues
Thanks guys - i will communicate with the mechanic and report back |
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mre
Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2006
Location: Estonia
Vehicle(s): 463 300GE ´91
Posts: 169
| Re: 280GE power loss and stall issues
I vote for ignition problems.
Check dist cap, rotor, HV leads. |
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roughneck
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
| Re: 280GE power loss and stall issues
Freek - 3/25/2011 5:55 AM
Thanks guys - i will communicate with the mechanic and report back
I would change the accumulator, adjacent to the fuel filter on the rear chassis rail, |
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Freek
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Zululand South Africa
Vehicle(s): 2000 290GDT, 1985 280GE, 83 300GD in process
Posts: 364
| Re: 280GE power loss and stall issues
Ok up to now they have changed the coil with no luck. The distributor cap is fairly new. I will let him know on monday about the fuel accumulator.
Thanks a lot for the input |
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or_550i
Veteran
Date registered: Oct 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle(s): 1984 280GE Europa, 2003 G500
Posts: 264
| Re: 280GE power loss and stall issues
Freek - 3/25/2011 9:31 AM
Ok up to now they have changed the coil with no luck. The distributor cap is fairly new. I will let him know on monday about the fuel accumulator.
Thanks a lot for the input
I have a 280GE that stalls... but it's a vacuum issue (and/or fuel pump issue). |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| Re: 280GE power loss and stall issues
or_550i - 3/25/2011 12:59 PM
I have a 280GE that stalls... but it's a vacuum issue....
Good point. All that rubber plumbing under the intake manifold is always suspect on these things and can cause all kinds of wierd problems. But it's a royal PITA to check, so probably still better to work through the things that are easier to verify first. When going into the under-manifold vacuum plumbing, the best idea is to commit up front to just replace everything in one shot. You don't want to be going under there again in 6 months.
-Dave G. |
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Freek
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Zululand South Africa
Vehicle(s): 2000 290GDT, 1985 280GE, 83 300GD in process
Posts: 364
| Re: 280GE power loss and stall issues
update: The mechanic says he has tried a new coil, checked the accumulator as well as another fuel pump and the problem persists. He then borrowed another "ignition box, or transistorized ignition or spark box (as he calls it) - the square aluminium box with the fat round plug on the side and the problem was gone during the testing. he was quite convinced that it is the problem
Could that be the culprit? Would it be reparable? I believe this is quite an expensive part.
Regards |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| Re: 280GE power loss and stall issues
Freek - 3/28/2011 12:04 PM
update: The mechanic says he has tried a new coil, checked the accumulator as well as another fuel pump and the problem persists. He then borrowed another "ignition box, or transistorized ignition or spark box (as he calls it) - the square aluminium box with the fat round plug on the side and the problem was gone during the testing. he was quite convinced that it is the problem
Could that be the culprit? Would it be reparable? I believe this is quite an expensive part.
Regards
It sure could be. They do get tired and go bad after awhile. Some folks here have had to replace them. If I recall correctly, I think they're heavily potted inside and as such near impossible to repair. But my memory might be wrong. And yes they are expensive to get new. Most folks seem to just find one from a similar vintage sedan and go with the used part.
-Dave G. |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: 280GE power loss and stall issues
Freek - 3/28/2011 11:04 AM update: The mechanic says he has tried a new coil, checked the accumulator as well as another fuel pump and the problem persists. He then borrowed another "ignition box, or transistorized ignition or spark box (as he calls it) - the square aluminium box with the fat round plug on the side and the problem was gone during the testing. he was quite convinced that it is the problem Could that be the culprit? Would it be reparable? I believe this is quite an expensive part. Regards It is certainly possible for the electronics to be bad. An equally likely candidate is the connectors for the electronics box. Often swapping a module out fixes a problem simply because the connectors are removed and replaced, cleaning up the connections. This is particularly true on older Mercedes with the silver plated pin and sleeve type connectors. A good cleaning (and treating with electrical grease) of all the electrical contacts and ground points will vanquish all sorts of intermittent problems. Done correctly it is a great investment in future reliability.
Edited by AlanMcR 3/28/2011 2:57 PM
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Freek
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Zululand South Africa
Vehicle(s): 2000 290GDT, 1985 280GE, 83 300GD in process
Posts: 364
| Re: 280GE power loss and stall issues
Tks Alan and Dave
I think what i will do is to ask him to replace the old unit and see if the problem returns - if it does then we are quite sure. If if does not return then maybe your bad contact theory holds..
regards |
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nugat
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Vehicle(s): 280GE, 290GD, c303
Posts: 876
| Re: 280GE power loss and stall issues
I had the same symptoms in my 280GE (1987)
It turned out the electrical wires to the fuel pump were corroded and voltage would fluctuate, disappear, then reappear again.
As a result the fuel delivery was fluctuating as well. Sometimes it would die and then ressurect in 10-15 minutes.
Corrosion is less likely in the dry climate but 26 years is quite an age even for the G. |
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gerhard van rooyen
Member
Date registered: Apr 2010
Location: Empangeni, KwaZulu Natal, South Africa
Vehicle(s): '85 230GE 3dr LWB, '79 W123 300D
Posts: 10
| RE: 280GE power loss and stall issues
What is vapor lock, what causes it? -is it a little air bubble in the system that is trapped and doesn't get pushed out by the liquid? Thanks |
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Fernando BR
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: Brasil
Vehicle(s): G500/05 300GE/91 300GD/80
| Re: 280GE power loss and stall issues
I had similar issues on my 300GE , its uses K jectronic dont know if its your case . I changed accumulator, filter, Ipump , clean de delivery unit , etc...At the end it was the pressure regulator that works atatched fo the K jectronic. The hot start dificulties are brought by old ccoil. Its a good idea also to change the hoses between filter,acumulator ,ip....Are those parts perspiring? Another point to ckech is the breathing system....On a 22 years truck its a good idea to slowly change all those parts. |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: 280GE power loss and stall issues
gerhard van rooyen - 3/30/2011 1:19 AM
What is vapor lock, what causes it? -is it a little air bubble in the system that is trapped and doesn't get pushed out by the liquid? Thanks
Essentially yes, but can be a big bubble that is sustained by the conditions in the system. It's usually a hot part of the fuel supply line that causes fuel in the line to vaporize as it's passing through the line. Fuel injection systems are much more resistant to the condition than carbureted systems because the fuel injection systems run higher pressures in the line (higher pressure means fuel boils at a higher temperature) and they typically have a return line to the tank and so circulate higher volumes of fuel through the lines naturally keeping the fuel lines and the fuel in them cooler. I can't say I've never heard of it on a fuel injected vehicle as I have heard of one. But it's much less common than it is on carbureted engines.
-Dave G. |
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Inkblotz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
| Re: 280GE power loss and stall issues
If the issue is vapor lock the problem would occur in fuel injected engines in the fuel pump next to the tank. And as Dave mentioned it happens in hot conditions generally with an older fuel pump.
Mark |
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