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Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank
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Posted 1/9/2015 12:09 PM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

otiswesty - 1/9/2015 5:37 PM

Looking at the Front Runner installation instructions, it looks like the fill port is off of the filler neck and would require the main tank to be full and actively topped up in order to keep fuel flowing to the aux tank when the pump is in fill mode. I would rather tap into the fuel line to my Webasto heater before the aux heater fuel pump for the fuel supply line. I think it would be possible to reverse flow through this tap back into the main tank as well.

Sounds like a very plausible way to do it Although I think the tube on the insert in the filling neck will be deep in the main tank looking at the length of it...
I would really like to see the part numbers for the Oz tank, pump, switch, etc. Would need an appropriate VIN though.

The parts-number for the tank (the one Johnny submitted above) is the Oz (Australian) tank according to my parts guy...
#226133 - in reply to #226131
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Posted 1/9/2015 12:26 PM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Johnny Christensen - 1/9/2015 3:48 PM

The VIN number of the 280 cdi that has the aux tank, is a 2850, so frame, driveline and exhaust routing should be the same as yours G400.
Some fabrication to adapt the fuel lines to your vehicle will be required, but it looks like an elegant and sturdy solution can be worked out, when looking at your Frontrunner pdf.
I would do it with a single reversible pump. Mount it on a bracket to the body, so you will hear when it's running. Bring a spare pump along on extended trips and you should be fine.

A 50L tank is in my future too, but for now my winter project is to install a 6 speed manual box. It allready sitting on a pallet, next to the car :-)


Sounds great Except I have a double exhaust system like on the G500, but I should not matter I think.

Hopefully I will be able to share my experiences at that time, looking forward to Tuesday...




Edited by thebigblue 1/9/2015 12:29 PM
#226136 - in reply to #226129
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Posted 1/9/2015 12:34 PM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Potential pump (could only find the one FR uses on an Australian web-shop) Flow Rate is 26 l/min @ 2 bar.:

http://www.pumpexpress.co.uk/acatalog/marco_up6_gear_pump_12v.html







Edited by thebigblue 1/9/2015 12:42 PM
#226137 - in reply to #226098
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Posted 1/9/2015 2:58 PM
AlanMcR
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
2000
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Having the tank hang down below the frame rails seems like a really bad idea.  I'll see if I can shoot a picture of mine.  It sits up high, >1" above the bottom of the frame.  That way I can still slide on the frame w/o risking the tank.

There is some space above the tank and in front of the rear axle.  This proved to be a handy place to stuff the air compressor.  Being close to the (rear mounted) battery made for a short wiring path.  

Allowing a switch to the extended range tank as an engine fuel source would be nice.  I didn't design my setup for that, but it can be accomplished in an hour or so by moving around some of the lines.  

#226138 - in reply to #226098
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Posted 1/9/2015 3:10 PM
Roly
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
Vehicle(s): 1999 G500
Posts: 661
500
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

http://www.go2marine.com/item/86781/jabsco-reversible-vane-pump-die...

Search under Jabsco, they do a range of reversible pumps.
#226139 - in reply to #226137
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Posted 1/9/2015 3:29 PM
AlanMcR
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
2000
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Roly - 1/9/2015 12:10 PM http://www.go2marine.com/item/86781/jabsco-reversible-vane-pump-die... Search under Jabsco, they do a range of reversible pumps.

Very similar pumps are available for 1/10th that price.  Actual run time will be very low.  Note that a nitrile seal won't last long in biodiesel.  Either way, locating the pump up high, well above the tanks, is important.  You don't want the pump to spring a leak and drool out all your fuel as you drive.

#226140 - in reply to #226139
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Posted 1/10/2015 12:58 PM
colsG55
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Date registered: Aug 2013
Location: Dubai
Vehicle(s): G55 Classic 2000, TD5 110, 200 Series Land Cruiser
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Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

otiswesty - 1/8/2015 8:26 AM

I don't get why the Frontrunner tank only works with the diesel G. Aren't the crossmembers and driveshafts aligned the same?


I had a chat to one of the South African Front Runner guys at a 4x4 show in Abu Dhabi & asked why it was for diesels only & if it would work with petrol and his response was that yes it would work fine and the reason is it is not offered is due to you needing to do exhaust mods and move the rear cross over section at the rear of the tank. I have never seen a late model G Professional as imported into South Africa but I understand this does not have the exhaust cross over so fitting the tank is quite easy. He said the tank can be fitted to a petrol 463 if you went to the trouble of moving the exhaust & modifying the fuel filler from that which is supplied to fit a 461 such as the SA Professionals.

I am guessing if there was enough international demand for tanks for petrol 463 they may be up for producing them, but looking at the flip side, that they may leave themselves open to litigation if they supplied a tank without the exhaust modifications as well, as i there was ever a fire in the tank/explosion due to excess heat due to a poorly modified exhaust, FR may leave themselves open to legal action.

Edited by colsG55 1/10/2015 1:03 PM
#226164 - in reply to #226120
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Posted 1/10/2015 1:50 PM
bimmerc
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Date registered: Jun 2009
Location: Alta, Norway
Vehicle(s): 1992 300GE swb Portals, 85 300GD STT Cab swb
Posts: 102
100
Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

What about a tank from ORC?



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#226166 - in reply to #226164
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Posted 1/10/2015 3:06 PM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

bimmerc - 1/10/2015 7:50 PM

What about a tank from ORC?


Nooo thanks, I need the interior space for other stuff
#226170 - in reply to #226166
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Posted 1/10/2015 3:27 PM
AlanMcR
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
2000
Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Using the Webasto tap is what I did with my tank. The only real problem with that is that the tap has a small inside diameter, and thus doesn't flow quickly. 

The Front Runner tap has a long tube that goes down into the tank (inside the main fill tube).  See item six on page two of their installation manual.  I thought that was rather clever actually. 

#226172 - in reply to #226131
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Posted 1/10/2015 3:56 PM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

AlanMcR - 1/10/2015 9:27 PM

Using the Webasto tap is what I did with my tank. The only real problem with that is that the tap has a small inside diameter, and thus doesn't flow quickly. 

The Front Runner tap has a long tube that goes down into the tank (inside the main fill tube).  See item six on page two of their installation manual.  I thought that was rather clever actually. 



Yeap - clever solution from FR
#226174 - in reply to #226172
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Posted 1/10/2015 4:36 PM
Roly
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
Vehicle(s): 1999 G500
Posts: 661
500
Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

I haven't been able to find a reversible 12v pump circa 30l/m which is rated for petrol. In Europe they require an ATEX certificate to operate in an explosive environment. Nothing available. I'm sure we could get the tank installed on the 463 model without too much work. But to fill the aux tank using a shared filler and transfer means running an electric motor whilst there are petrol fumes being produced. Too scary for me
The MB 50L tank sounds great for a diesel.
#226176 - in reply to #226164
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Posted 1/11/2015 3:54 AM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Roly - 1/10/2015 10:36 PM

I haven't been able to find a reversible 12v pump circa 30l/m which is rated for petrol. In Europe they require an ATEX certificate to operate in an explosive environment. Nothing available. I'm sure we could get the tank installed on the 463 model without too much work. But to fill the aux tank using a shared filler and transfer means running an electric motor whilst there are petrol fumes being produced. Too scary for me
The MB 50L tank sounds great for a diesel.


Being on expedition time is not really an issue I think, I have located a pump rated at 110l/h. on amazon.co.uk, filling the main-tank and then wait for 30 min. for the aux. to fill, then refill main tank - no problem to me. Pumping from aux. back to main driving on piste or in camp, no sweat.

You might need a two pump set-up, but at £11.42 a pump that´s OK I think...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/SA-Heavy-Electric-Intank-Petrol/dp/B00L7H7D...





Edited by thebigblue 1/11/2015 3:56 AM
#226185 - in reply to #226176
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Posted 1/11/2015 7:00 AM
Johnny Christensen
Veteran


Date registered: Sep 2010
Location: Denmark
Vehicle(s): GD290 W461
Posts: 202
100
Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

thebigblue - 1/11/2015 9:54 AM


Being on expedition time is not really an issue I think, I have located a pump rated at 110l/h. on amazon.co.uk, filling the main-tank and then wait for 30 min. for the aux. to fill, then refill main tank - no problem to me. Pumping from aux. back to main driving on piste or in camp, no sweat.



But what if you are at a location with limited pumps and a long line of cars waiting. You have been baking in the sun for two hours, just like all the locals. Now it's your turn to get fuel. You will fill the main tank and return to the end of the line to do another two hours of waiting?
Besides from the time and inconvenience involved, I think another thing might happen.
There would be a chance of some locals raising an eyebrow and thinking "the rich man is getting all our fuel, he is greedy and leaves nothing for us"
I keep my G looking as plain and able to function as a travel vehicle, as smoothly as possibly. If you do not do things that might cause a few raised eyebrows, it'll be easier to strike up that friendly conversation and getting to know the local people.



#226188 - in reply to #226185
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Posted 1/14/2015 4:06 AM
Johnny Christensen
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Date registered: Sep 2010
Location: Denmark
Vehicle(s): GD290 W461
Posts: 202
100
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Hi Peter

Did you recieve the 50L tank yet?
#226228 - in reply to #226098
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Posted 1/14/2015 4:59 AM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Johnny Christensen - 1/14/2015 10:06 AM

Hi Peter

Did you recieve the 50L tank yet?


Yes, sort-off, the tank is at the dealer - but the fixtures/brackets did not arrive, and none is in stuck in Germany, they will have to fabricate them, and with my experience this will last a while. MB did not tell me this when ordering the parts .

I need to get some progress because I´m leaving for Africa in a not to distant future, so I might just go for the FR tank...., it´s in stock in Belgium and I have a fair quotation on shipping to DEN.




Edited by thebigblue 1/14/2015 5:10 AM
#226229 - in reply to #226228
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Posted 1/14/2015 12:49 PM
Roly
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
Vehicle(s): 1999 G500
Posts: 661
500
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Have you paid for the tank? Or will you cancel the order? I was looking forward to seeing your install pics of the MB tank
#226234 - in reply to #226229
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Posted 1/14/2015 1:22 PM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Roly - 1/14/2015 6:49 PM

Have you paid for the tank? Or will you cancel the order? I was looking forward to seeing your install pics of the MB tank


Haven´t paid - the tank is still at the dealer... They may have to return it to central stock-holdings in MB Germany
#226236 - in reply to #226234
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Posted 1/25/2015 3:45 AM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

MB never got back to me about the missing brackets, so i went for the FR tank.

It has been delivered, and will be mounted tomorrow, today I got a chance to look inside the box. First impressions OK, but a closer look revealed that the holes in the bracket are way off compared to the size of the u-bolts, if the u-bolts have the wrong dimension it´s very bad! Just hope the rest will have a better fitment....

EDIT: Although it is winter - and we have some snow today - I had a quick dive beneath the truck, the u-bolts seems to be correct, so drilling a new hole in the two brackets will be easy. I´m not convinced that the tank will fit without any changes to the center-muffler, FR did say it would fit a G400, I´m not so sure ?







Edited by thebigblue 1/25/2015 4:40 AM
#226399 - in reply to #226098
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Posted 1/26/2015 10:02 AM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

The FR-tank will never fit a G400, the battery-box is in the way!

Actually I think all 463´s has the battery behind the front-seats...?, If this is correct It will never fit a 463.

FR has agreed to take it back.
#226413 - in reply to #226098
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