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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| bad pulley bearing - again
I love Karl's aluminum pulleys
but the bearings can still go bad
good thing is, they can be replaced
too bad I used a Mexican bearing
should have used SKF
the seizing bearing created so much resistance that the bolt holding the pulley in place bent
not good
who can pull a part number (bolt) for me, please?
 (bad pulley bearing - again 1k.jpg)
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 bad pulley bearing - again 1k.jpg (226KB - 0 downloads)
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colsG55
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2013
Location: Dubai
Vehicle(s): G55 Classic 2000, TD5 110, 200 Series Land Cruiser
Posts: 209
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
Did the bearing make any noise giving indication of an impending failure prior to letting go.
Out of interest how many miles did the bearing last prior to failure.
I carry spare bearings for my pulleys just incase. |
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DesertStar
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
Harold, I think it may be part #11 ( A 112 990 01 12 ) shown here:
http://mercedes-benz-teile.info/view_SubGroupAction.php?lang=E&mode...
You can look at the diagram and verify. I am not sure of your chassis model....463.249?
Mike |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
Mike,
I think, that's the part number all M112 and M113 are identical
I am already contemplating to steal one from Karl's ML
but I'll try the local dealer first
Colin,
yes, the bearing started making noise about 5 days ago
every day I thought - I am gonna do that tomorrow
and I thought the same thing when I left to buy some cigars
In my case just a new bearing won't do - I have to have the bolt as well
I don't know how many miles I have driven - maybe 8k
the bearings went in on April 20
for less than $3 you won't get much
but it was all they had here in La Paz
you gotta be thankful that you live in the 1st world and have access to almost anything
I don't
So, for the meantime I'll use another cheapo bearing until I can get some good stuff
it's the 6301 2RS bearing that you find in almost all cars somewhere |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
Ok guys - it's not as bad as I thought
the bolt is fine
the exploded bearing made the pulley sit at an angle that made me think, the bolt was bent
will install the new bearing asap
since I always have enough spare belts, no need for a dealer visit
 (bad G500 pulley bearing 1k.jpg)
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bad G500 pulley bearing 1k.jpg (195KB - 0 downloads)
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
Would lubricating that bearing have kept the explosion at bay? |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
the bearing is sealed on both sides - no way to lube it
now come to think about it, I remember seeing some traces of oily stuff on my alternator
checked for an oil leak and could not find any
must have been the grease from the bearing
that was about 5 weeks ago
lesson is - don't wait after you hear noises from the bearing
sometimes hard to though where exactly a noise at the front end of the engine is coming from
I was checking with a stethoscope when the noise started and could not determine exactly whether it was the pulley or the alternator
now I know |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
Sounds like a $6 repair.
New pulley bearing for the G and one for under the hood zip tied to your extra belt.
Plus another belt... |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
so, everything is back in working order
one problem arose - I could not get the new belt on
it seemed too short
correct part number
compared with an old used one - they seemed of equal length
so I bought a new (longer) one
the one I had was 2390 (mm)
got a 2400 (mm)
perfect fit
now back to the pool
Edited by 4x4abc 9/4/2015 6:25 PM
 (pool-1k.jpg)
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colsG55
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2013
Location: Dubai
Vehicle(s): G55 Classic 2000, TD5 110, 200 Series Land Cruiser
Posts: 209
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
4x4abc - 9/3/2015 1:44 PM
yes, the bearing started making noise about 5 days ago
every day I thought - I am gonna do that tomorrow
Good to hear you got some warning of an impending bearing failure, far better than the crappy plastic one that let go on me without warning.
When I brought the uprated pulleys I also ordered replacement bearings to keep onboard as spares, which is why it is good to hear you had some notice of the failure.
Thanks for the feed back.
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fernweh
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
| RE: bad pulley bearing - again
The original dust cap is very important to re-use.
Harald, I do have a spare belt and an old pulley laying in my G-wagen, left side of my sleeping platform.
Greetings from Germany
Karl |
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 464
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
That's a mess!
I hope all other pulleys are ok for you. |
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NYG500
Member
Date registered: Aug 2014
Location: NJ/NY
Vehicle(s): 2007 G500
Posts: 43
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
I had my idler replaced with Karl's aluminum one a few months ago and realized that the tech didn't put back the dust cover. Does anyone have the part number for the cover? Much appreciated.
Edited by NYG500 9/5/2015 1:43 PM
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
NYG500 - 9/5/2015 1:42 PM
I had my idler replaced with Karl's aluminum one a few months ago and realized that the tech didn't put back the dust cover. Does anyone have the part number for the cover? Much appreciated.
Just one more reason to D-I-Y!!
P/N is A.001.988.57.35
MBUSA MSRP US$3.20, discount price US$2.40. |
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NYG500
Member
Date registered: Aug 2014
Location: NJ/NY
Vehicle(s): 2007 G500
Posts: 43
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
Excellent! Thank you! |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
could it be
that my spare fan belt did not like the heat under the hood?
Could it be that it got shorter?
could that be the reason, why it did not fit (too short)
 (fan belt 1k.jpg)
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fan belt 1k.jpg (244KB - 0 downloads)
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
The heat was probably not good for its longevity, but I doubt it made it shrink that much. The belt might fit in a ziplock bag between your seat bottom and the top of the seat box. Was the dust cap in place over the pulley face?
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
Alan,
dust cap was in place. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: bad pulley bearing - again
4x4abc - 9/3/2015 8:36 PM
I love Karl's aluminum pulleys
but the bearings can still go bad
good thing is, they can be replaced
too bad I used a Mexican bearing
should have used SKF
NSK would be evn better. |
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beepers90
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2006
Location: charlotte, nc
Vehicle(s): 02 G500, 05 C230 Kompressor
Posts: 52
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
There were two to three different belt lengths for the m113 g500, aftermarket vs Oem are considerably different according to e c s . |
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beepers90
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2006
Location: charlotte, nc
Vehicle(s): 02 G500, 05 C230 Kompressor
Posts: 52
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
2535 2390 2380 |
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
beepers90 - 9/7/2015 6:04 PM
There were two to three different belt lengths for the m113 g500, aftermarket vs Oem are considerably different according to e c s .
I found this to be true when I did my belt - there is one "standard" aftermarket size that is a bit shorter and on that is a bit longer. MB has the belts made to the exact length but the aftermarket does not recognize or carry that as a standard size. In theory the tensioner will compensate for the slight size difference, but it will still be operating at a different point than MB intended. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
mine was 2390 - so I bought a 2400 (10 mm longer)
now all is good |
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mb230s
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SWFL
Vehicle(s): G-less for now, vintage MBs, FJ40
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
What length was the belt that imploded with the bearing? There must be something else wrong for it to only last 8K miles - too much tension or bad parts???
Edited by mb230s 9/9/2015 10:32 AM
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
mb230s - 9/9/2015 10:32 AM
What length was the belt that imploded with the bearing? There must be something else wrong for it to only last 8K miles - too much tension or bad parts???
Didn't he mention way back at the beginning of this thread that he used a cheap Mexican bearing? |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
for Dave:
 (length.png)
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length.png (189KB - 0 downloads)
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mb230s
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SWFL
Vehicle(s): G-less for now, vintage MBs, FJ40
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
I thought 2390 was the replacement belt that didn't fit vs. the imploded one. Still seems odd a bearing would go that soon....even if MX sourced. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
like I mentioned before - I had trouble fitting the (according to EPC correct) belt before - it likely puts too much load on the bearings
the new length should resolve that problem |
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 464
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
I would think the load would be pretty much the same Harold, as the tensioner is lessened by only 5mm in travel.
This is a dumb question to ask, but I will.. Is your pulley inline with the others? When I installed my Karl-pulley, I needed to add a washer behind.
If left misaligned, the belt applies both radial and axial forces to a radial bearing.
It might be worth checking to prevent any further down time.
How did your other pulleys look, still good? |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
I had the pulley-master Karl inspect all my work
pulleys are in line
they all look good and are quiet
and yes, an earlier version of the pulley required a washer
I have the latest version
well, I am the guinea pig for Karl's inventions |
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 464
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
I knew so, go easy on the Picifico's...
I loose my direction after three beers, tools go missing, I cures when I find them under my ass or foot.. Hard to focus once the beers flow!
Be well
D |
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Vehicross99
Veteran
Date registered: May 2009
Location: So Texas/SW Colorado
Vehicle(s): 2006 G500
Posts: 161
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
Doing some research on replacement 6301 2RS bearings I find that some of the cheaper ones are using a lubricant with a lower temp operating range than some of the higher priced ones.
You may want to check out the different brands bearing lub temp spec's.
Reg |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
the bearing number is actually 6302 - I just replaced another pair
I used NTN this time and hope they will last longer |
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Vehicross99
Veteran
Date registered: May 2009
Location: So Texas/SW Colorado
Vehicle(s): 2006 G500
Posts: 161
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
Well that's really strange...
My new tension pulley has a 6203 bearing which is 17mm x 40mm x 12mm
I find that a 6302 bearing is 15mm x 42mm x 13mm
and a 6301 bearing is 12mm x 32mm x 10mm.
(I was going on the 6301 number in your post #229272)
Are the bearings in Karls idler & tension pulley the same size??? |
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TexWagen
Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Houston, Texas
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 115
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
Are the bearings in Karls idler & tension pulley the same size???
I don't know if you ever got an answer, but it seems to be "yes". They have the same part number on his website. |
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Vehicross99
Veteran
Date registered: May 2009
Location: So Texas/SW Colorado
Vehicle(s): 2006 G500
Posts: 161
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
Thanks, I was tempted to pull them both back off to check!
I would prefer to have that number written down in case of needing to pick one up on short notice. |
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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| RE: bad pulley bearing - again
I keep additional belts and select hoses under the rear seat compartment. |
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colsG55
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2013
Location: Dubai
Vehicle(s): G55 Classic 2000, TD5 110, 200 Series Land Cruiser
Posts: 209
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
It sounds like one of my bearing is one the way out, the original pulley lasted 71 km & Karl's replacements are at 59 km & there is increased noise especially when cold but they seem to quieten down when hot.
I just checked the temps of all of the pulleys with the engine hot & running & they are all between 82-92 deg C, so it does not look like there is a bearing that is going to fail imminently but I will monitor & try to fit new bearing next week when I get some time. Out of interest the belt was running at around 95 deg C which surprised me.
I am guessing there is a design issue here somewhere causing excess load on the bearings which in effect causes the original plastic pulleys to fail, with the after market alloy pulleys being far better quality they probably keep running until the bearings fail. I recently replaced the pulleys on my Wife's 2004 V8 LR Discovery at 220km so there is an issue when the Mercedes items seem to last around 1/4 of the time the LR items last, it should be the other way around. |
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 464
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
When you replace the bearing in the near future, remove the seal on both sides of the new bearing and check the grease content. It's easy to open a sealed bearing. A sharp pin to the outer edge of the seal and your in. This is an idler pulley from my 07 sprinter. You could add some better bearing grease. It's hard to know long ago these bearings where made, it could be that the grease is five years old out of the box.
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IMG_0531.jpg (66KB - 0 downloads)
IMG_0532.jpg (64KB - 0 downloads)
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 464
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
You can see the waxy old grease on the end of the pin. I washed out the old grease, added fresh grease and replaced the cover.
I have no plan on reusing this pulley on my sprinter, I went with all new.
Used for show and tell only.
If I begin to hear any bearing noise from the aluminum pulley, I'll remove it for a new bearing of course.
But I'll be checking the grease in the old and new bearing. |
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BlueG
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2009
Location: DC
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 714
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
For better or for waste I have put 3 pulleys on my G since ownership. None have outright died. One made a touch of noise, and it was replaced with an aftermarket (but not chinese) pulley. From there I just popped another one on about every 20-25K. They're pretty cheap on eBay and easy to replace out. If anyone is wondering whether their pulley is about to go - just pop on a new one and you're good to roll. You could get the metal pulley but the bearing is still the bearing - I would think just getting a whole new pulley as needed makes more sense. |
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 464
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
BlueG - 4/18/2016 2:29 PM For better or for waste I have put 3 pulleys on my G since ownership. None have outright died. One made a touch of noise, and it was replaced with an aftermarket (but not chinese) pulley. From there I just popped another one on about every 20-25K. They're pretty cheap on eBay and easy to replace out. If anyone is wondering whether their pulley is about to go - just pop on a new one and you're good to roll. You could get the metal pulley but the bearing is still the bearing - I would think just getting a whole new pulley as needed makes more sense. We are talking idler pulley here and not tensioner pulley.... I would have to agree here on the idler pully, especially after replacing the belt for the first time and figuring out how easy it is releasing the tension, allows ease to simply replace the idler pulley. I have noticed via posts here, using metal verses plastic OEM has its pit falls. Plastic dissolves when the bearing fails, (probably a design feature) allowing the tensioner pulley to free up enough play to the belt, allowing slippage and signaling failure. Metal pulley + bad bearing seizure, holds the tension of the belt to all shaft's, exerting extreme tension, leading to bent bolts or shafts before the belt can disintegrate in time. I can see the benefits of metal pulley's in very high heat, dirt, mud environments, with replaceable bearings though, but only if one is attuned in noticing any abnormality in belt drive sound. Bottom line, if you hear a squeaking noise in the front of the engine, act on it before its too late. |
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BlueG
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2009
Location: DC
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 714
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
NHDave - 4/19/2016 10:59 PM
BlueG - 4/18/2016 2:29 PM For better or for waste I have put 3 pulleys on my G since ownership. None have outright died. One made a touch of noise, and it was replaced with an aftermarket (but not chinese) pulley. From there I just popped another one on about every 20-25K. They're pretty cheap on eBay and easy to replace out. If anyone is wondering whether their pulley is about to go - just pop on a new one and you're good to roll. You could get the metal pulley but the bearing is still the bearing - I would think just getting a whole new pulley as needed makes more sense. We are talking idler pulley here and not tensioner pulley.... I would have to agree here on the idler pully, especially after replacing the belt for the first time and figuring out how easy it is releasing the tension, allows ease to simply replace the idler pulley. I have noticed via posts here, using metal verses plastic OEM has its pit falls. Plastic dissolves when the bearing fails, (probably a design feature) allowing the tensioner pulley to free up enough play to the belt, allowing slippage and signaling failure. Metal pulley + bad bearing seizure, holds the tension of the belt to all shaft's, exerting extreme tension, leading to bent bolts or shafts before the belt can disintegrate in time. I can see the benefits of metal pulley's in very high heat, dirt, mud environments, with replaceable bearings though, but only if one is attuned in noticing any abnormality in belt drive sound. Bottom line, if you hear a squeaking noise in the front of the engine, act on it before its too late.
Yes idler pulley not tensioner pulley.
I have only replaced the tensioner pulley once. I think in 2 years I will be due another idler. We should have an oil, filter, and idler changing calendar with our engines. |
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colsG55
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2013
Location: Dubai
Vehicle(s): G55 Classic 2000, TD5 110, 200 Series Land Cruiser
Posts: 209
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
Time for an update.
I have the alloys pulleys fitted and the idler bearing was on it way out but not the main source of the noise. My tensioner pulley was also a little strange as the bearing is loose in the pulley behind the circlip allowing the pulley to float on the bearing which is not real good, so I have re-fitted an origional plastic tensioner pulley until I can get another replacement alloy one.
The main source of the noise was from the front bearing in the alternator, I have replaced both bearings in the alternator and fitted a new regulator whilst I was at it.
As it was all in bits I decided to replace the water pump whilst I was at it to save needing to strip it down again at a later date and there was a bit of movement in the impeller shaft so it was nearing the end of its life.
I briefly fired it up and it is now nice and quite but I now have a leak from the engine oil cooler lines and need to replace the seals but finding new seals is proving to be easier said than done.
I think I will start replacing the idler and tensioner pulleys or bearing every 50k to save running into any grief as it is ok doing the job on a cold engine but I would hate to need to be doing it on the side of the road with a hot engine.
I found another use for my IPhone and have a PDF of the belt fittment saved and it is very handy when refitting the belt, with the phone on the engine with and the belt and pulley diagram in front of you, it saves a lot of head scratching trying to refit the belt.
Edited by colsG55 5/4/2016 12:52 PM
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 464
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
Engine cooling line leak, AMG? |
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colsG55
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2013
Location: Dubai
Vehicle(s): G55 Classic 2000, TD5 110, 200 Series Land Cruiser
Posts: 209
| Re: bad pulley bearing - again
NHDave - 5/4/2016 5:49 AM
Engine cooling line leak, AMG?
Sadly this is one of the few times you wish you didn't have an AMG, I am guessing these seals are in an AMG supplement which for some reason we're not incorporated into the main EPC. |
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