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gerryvz
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
| 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
This morning, after about a week of not driving my G320, I went out to drive it. Unlocked fine with the IR key fob, and drove it to my destination. Parked at the destination and it would not lock (any of the four doors) with the key fob. When pressed, the red and green lights on the roof-mounted IR receiver/lights flashed appropriately, indicating that it was receiving the signal just fine. Upon trying to lock it repeatedly, I heard a slight "click" from the driver's door area. Able to lock the truck manually by depressing the three door lock knobs, and then manually locking the truck from the outside driver's door lock by turning the key. I did plenty of reading of old threads (seems others have had the same problem over the years) and from what I can see, it's either the "master" actuator in the driver's door, or the "Kiekert" relay. As far as I know, my truck DOES NOT HAVE the vaunted "K40" relay, so that eliminates this as the problem.
A couple of questions: 1) Confirming that my G320 from 1995 DOES HAVE a Kiekert relay? And it is located below the passenger side glove box in the fuse+relay panel? 2) How likely is it that it is the actuator, vs the relay. Or vice versa? 3) Has anyone developed a definitive test as to how to isolate whether it is the relay or the actuator? I will continue to peruse closely the previous threads for more insight, but anyone's assistance is welcome. In the past, I already replaced the "slave" actuator on the passenger side, as FYI. No issues with that replacement and it was straightforward. Cheers,
Gerry
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
If the lights blink, but none of the actuators move then you have to assume that the kiekert relay is at fault rather than all of the actuators failing at the exact same time. Sadly, I don't know where the relay is on your vehicle. Your suggestion sounds correct. Repair is pretty easy with a soldering iron.
Edited by AlanMcR 6/12/2018 12:43 AM
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
The relay is behind the glove box and is simple to replace once the glove box is out. There are 4 little plastic rivets that hold the glove box insert in place. If you have replaced your ECU, you have likely seen your Kiekert relay.
I would recommend just going ahead and replacing that relay. I did this for vague intermittent locking issues that were mostly solved with this. I probably need a driver actuator as well, but now it is rare for me to have any issues.
edit: make sure your key fob batteries are fresh first and fore most
Edited by otiswesty 6/12/2018 2:27 AM
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gerryvz
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
I have a spare, barely-used keyfob that I obtained from the Classic Center several years ago. This key fob doesn't make a difference, so I think it can eliminate the key fob as an issue.
I think I'm going to order a Kiekert relay and the "master" driver's door actuator, and replace one at a time. Can't hurt to have the other, unused part as a spare. Total cost to me for both parts will be about $250 from MB.
Doing more research, but I think it is coming down to the Kiekert relay. I'll also attempt to re-solder my existing Kiekert while I'm waiting for the new parts to arrive, and see if that makes any difference.
Any other input/experience is welcome!
Cheers,
Gerry |
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gerryvz
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
Interestingly, this morning I drive into downtown Washington DC, which is about 25 miles away from my house. I parked the truck and lo and behold, the electric locks were working just fine !
En route to DC on US 50, I did move the driver's lock knob up and down a couple of times and there was no response from the system.
So, it seems this is an intermittent issue. I'm still going to buy the new Kiekert unit as well as a driver's door actuator. |
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gerryvz
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
Locks still working just fine today. I pulled the Kiekert relay. On my truck, it is located under the dash, passenger side, in the normal relay tray behind the fuse panel. Normal position as others have shown. Careful examination of the relay shows a cracked solder joint, as shown in the linked image (forum is not letting me attach images) -- very center joint in the image. It's exactly the same pin/joint as other folks have indicated was bad with their relays. I'll touch it up with new solder and put things back together and see how she goes. Still will order the new relay and master actuator, though. Cheers, Gerry 
Edited by gerryvz 6/13/2018 12:22 PM
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
Yep. The fact that single layer PCBs still suck in automotive applications has been confirmed.
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King_GH
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Oct 2011
Location: London
Vehicle(s): 95 G300 RHD
Posts: 324
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
Hi Gerry
What does the keikart relay look like on the outside? I have been living with this problem on my 95 for a while and I won’t mind investigating in this direction. |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
How did you post that picture? |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
otiswesty - 6/15/2018 12:39 AM
How did you post that picture?
You post the photo on another website. Then, using the Rich Text Editor here link the photo.
Until the File Uploader is fixed by our webmaster, this is the only way. Just keep the size to 1000 pixels max on the long side. |
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gerryvz
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
Correct. I just hosted the image on my own server, and linked to it from here using the [ IMG] tag.
Due to the demise of linking to popular external hosting services such as Photobucket, which a lot of people have used in past years for forum photos, I recently implemented a script on my 500Eboard.com site. This script polls all new posts every five minutes, and automatically downloads and saves any externally linked image to the site's database. Member attached images are already in the database, so they are not affected.
Doing this protects the ability of the forum to preserve images in the event that they are removed, lost, deleted or otherwise cut off after a period of time.
Cheers,
Gerry |
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gerryvz
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
King_GH - 6/13/2018 3:36 PM Hi Gerry What does the keikart relay look like on the outside? I have been living with this problem on my 95 for a while and I won’t mind investigating in this direction. It's either going to be the master actuator in the driver's door, or the Kiekert relay.You should pull your Kiekert relay and check for a bad/cracked solder joint or two. I bet you'll find that one of the joints is bad, and it will clear up the problem.
You can get the Kiekert new from MB for around $145 (part number 009 545 19 32) and the master actuator (part number 004 820 25 42) for under $100 from various discounters. My 500Eboard site has a special arrangement with MBOEMparts.com (which is the internet parts order desk of MB of Naperville, IL) for their standard ~26% discount off of MB list price, and free shipping (and no sales tax) if you enter the code 500EPROMO at checkout. Cheers,
Gerry
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
gerryvz - 6/15/2018 5:54 AM
Correct. I just hosted the image on my own server, and linked to it from here using the [ IMG] tag.
Cheers,
Gerry
Okay, thanks for the info
 ]
Edited by otiswesty 6/15/2018 12:56 PM
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kiato4
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2013
Location: New York, NY
Vehicle(s): 1995 G320, 1985 190E 2.3-16
Posts: 161
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
Gerry, on my 1995 G320 (12/94 build date) I never got the infrared door locks to work. I never even had the blinking lights working on the receiver on the headliner. I replaced the receiver, still nothing. I replaced the batteries in my remote, still nothing. Is the relay the next thing to try? Or is there a master control unit also? |
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gerryvz
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
There is a separate relay that controls the infrared system, in addition to the Kiekert relay (door locks) and the master actuator in the driver's side door.
I would remove your Kiekert relay and check it for broken solder joint(s). I documented this in this thread: https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12837 where you can see the cracked solder joint on my Kiekert relay's PCB.
I believe the IR system is separate, and primarily relates to the immobilization of the truck as an anti-theft measure. However, it does send a signal to the Kiekert relay to lock or unlock the doors. The Kiekert then sends a signal to the driver's side master actuator for the actual lock or unlock.
Make sure you check your fuses (I believe the relevant fuse is #16 on the M104-powered G-wagens) when you pull your Kiekert relay from the fuse+relay tray.
My truck has a traditional key lock ONLY in the driver's side door handle (not on the front passenger door handle as some do), and in the rear cargo door handle. When I insert the key in the door handle and turn it, it will activate the door locks independently of the IR system. However, the IR system has to be in the correct mode to allow power flow to the starter. This is indicated by a green flashing light in the indicator mounted in the truck's headliner near the rear view mirror and overhead console. It flashes three times "green" when the starter is energized and the truck can be started (and the doors are unlocked via the key fob button); and it flashes three times "red" when the starter is immobilized (and locks the doors via the key fob button).
Also, when you are sitting in the truck, you can manually depress the driver's door lock knob, and it will lock all of the doors plus the fuel flap. Pulling the lock knob up unlocks all of the doors.
Cheers,
Gerry |
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kiato4
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2013
Location: New York, NY
Vehicle(s): 1995 G320, 1985 190E 2.3-16
Posts: 161
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
Same with your truck, my G320 has only the traditional key lock in the driver's door handle and the rear cargo door. Rear cargo door lock only locks/unlocks the rear cargo door, but the driver's door lock locks/unlocks the whole truck. So looks like my door locks work but my IR/immobilizer does not. I'll look at the Kiekert relay first, thanks for the link. |
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gerryvz
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
Issues with the Kiekert relay are also well documented on this forum -- there are a number of threads on the topic.
My research showed that more often than not, the Kiekert relay was responsible for the lock system being inop, though the driver's door actuator can also be an issue as it is the master that controls all of the other "slave" actuators in the system.
It sounds like your IRCL system is inop as well, and that is a totally different system with its own electronics. There should be information on the forum about it, and I have also posted a thread or two on the topic. Sometimes it's just a matter of "resetting" the IRCL key-fob remote (again, I have a post here on how to do that; it's simple), to sync it back up with the system. If that fails, and the key-fob is known good, then it's probably time to check the IRCL system control relay.
You can test whether your IRCL key-fob remote is emitting its proper infrared system by going into a dark room (say a bathroom) and pressing the button. You will be able to see a red light emit from a working key-fob remote, through the dark-red IR lens, which indicates that it's operating. If the fob is working, then I think you have an issue with the system recognizing the IR signal, which to me would start with the relay.
Also, and it took me (very stupidly) some time to figure this out when I first bought the truck: the range on the early IRCL system is extremely short. Meaning you literally have to point the IRCL fob THROUGH one of the two front windows of the truck, from outside, to unlock and lock it. You can't do it from 5 or 10 or 50 feet away like you can with more modern systems.
Also, you must aim the IRCL fob UP at the receiver/lights in the roof of the truck when locking and unlocking. The range is super short -- like 3 feet or less away from the truck's door.
Cheers,
Gerry |
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King_GH
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Oct 2011
Location: London
Vehicle(s): 95 G300 RHD
Posts: 324
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
I eventually fixed this issue. As usual it was the bad solder joint. I think it's got enough solder till the car is finally welcomed at the German mercedes museum one day :-)) So the IR is outstanding. I will try and change the battery first. The infra-red is certainly working, however it can't open the door. It was working fine until the door broke. |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: 1995 G320 Infrared Door Locks Inoperative
King_GH - 6/20/2018 3:39 PM I eventually fixed this issue. As usual it was the bad solder joint. I think it's got enough solder till the car is finally welcomed at the German mercedes museum one day :-)) So the IR is outstanding. I will try and change the battery first. The infra-red is certainly working, however it can't open the door. It was working fine until the door broke. A likely scenario is that the door lock mechanism has been getting stiffer over time. This raised the current required to run the motor and that helped to cook the solder joint. You have now fixed the joint, but the original problem (the lock mechanism) still needs attention.
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