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Seeing a little fluid under the truck...

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Posted 5/2/2006 2:26 AM

ewalberg
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
1000

Seeing a little fluid under the truck...

I'm not 100% sure but i think this is somewhat new...

It looks like oil is somehow getting onto the body of the CV joint (yellow arrow) because i can see it's throwing a little oil around (you can see it on the drive shaft). The highest place i wonder if it's coming from is the part shown in the green arrow. Seems like a white plastic part. Ultimately you can see that the oil is making it's way around onto a number of places, down through the mount and onto the lower cross bar.

I gave things a wiggle, and didn't really notice any play in the CV and what i'm assuming is the transmission, but i do get a little movement of the whole system through a little play in the mount (red arrow).

Any ideas?

Anybody know if i'll get a message if the tranny fluid is low?

Edited by ewalberg 5/2/2006 2:37 AM

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#6949

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Posted 5/2/2006 7:06 AM

amzimmy
Elite Veteran

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: South Africa/Italy
Vehicle(s): GD300 1981, Alfa GT 3,2 V6, Alfa Brera Q4 3,2 V6.
Posts: 850
500

RE: Seeing a little fluid under the truck...

The simple way to check the kind of fluid is to TASTE. If it is "sweetisch" then it's Diff oil.

Sorry to say this but that's the way that I check ............. I have some single malt whisky after the taste

amzimmy

#6982 - in reply to #6949

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Posted 5/2/2006 9:57 AM

Brent
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
1000

RE: Seeing a little fluid under the truck...

So we are looking at the back (output) of the automatic transmission right? the only fluid that should be there is the red colored ATF. It sure looks like gear oil, does it smell? Gear oil generally has a strong odor. Maybe pull the trans dipstick to confirm the ATF is still the correct color and level.

The CV joint lube shouldn't be able to get up by the flange like that. It should be contained in the rubber boot further back. I would also expect it to be more grey colored and a little thicker viscosity.

#7034 - in reply to #6949

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Posted 5/2/2006 12:31 PM

ewalberg
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
1000

RE: Seeing a little fluid under the truck...

yeah, brent, you see the picture correctly. The fluid seems thin and doesn't seem to smell, and i want to say it may have some red tint, but it's a little hard to make the color call once it's dirty. I actually have a dipstick and replacement dip stick tube cap so I'll check that.

(Interstingly the dipstick tube is capped and the stick doesn't come with the car, you have to buy it and the replacment caps to check it. I've got them left over from the tranny fluid change 35k miles ago.)

I don't know what the tubes in that area are for, any chance this fluid could be from the diff locker system?

Edited by ewalberg 5/2/2006 12:32 PM

#7104 - in reply to #7034

Author

Posted 5/2/2006 1:21 PM

fernweh

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
2000

RE: Seeing a little fluid under the truck...

I have a feeling your output shaft seal is starting to leak. Take a spray can of brake cleaner and really clean the area around the driveshaft flansh and the seal (be very careful not to get it in your eyes, breathing it in and so on..). You might be able to tell better where is it coming from. If it was CV-joint grease it would be more splattered and not so uniform.
Good luck to you,
Karl

#7118 - in reply to #7104

Author

Posted 5/2/2006 2:43 PM

Brent
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
1000

RE: Seeing a little fluid under the truck...

I would guess tranny fluid first. I agree that it is most likely the rear seal on the transmission. The color is what baffles me. Generally with an ATF leak, the fluid remains pretty obviously red. Getting it dirty wouldn't change it to the grey/green in the pic. That was part of the reason I suggested checking the fluid. If it is discolored in the tranny and leaking out discolored it would make more sense.

I am not sure if there are locker lines in that immediate area. You could back track the locker line on the t-case and see if it runs by that area. My guess is, the locker lines run closer to the frame and not in the transmission tunnel. Lockers use brake fluid and contaminated brake fluid could look like what is in the picture.

I second the "clean it up" advice. It will help you pinpoint the actual leak.

#7149 - in reply to #6949

Author

Posted 5/2/2006 2:58 PM

ewalberg
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
1000

RE: Seeing a little fluid under the truck...

How bumbed am i if i need to replace that seal? Any other services worth performing while doing it? and lastly, if this is the problem, can i anticipate it's leak increasing slowly so i don't have to rush (obviously checking for drips under the truck is an easy way... assuming it leaks when it's sitting rather than only while driving).

If you look at the screw holding the white part in place (green arrow) you can somewhat see the red tint to the fluid as it's a little pooled around it. The grey green color is just the under carraige color, now more obvious by it's being wetted, there's not enough thickness of fluid to change it's color.

#7160 - in reply to #7149

Author

Posted 5/2/2006 4:09 PM

Brent
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
1000

RE: Seeing a little fluid under the truck...

OK, now that you point it out I see the red ATF on the screw head. That makes the likelyhood of a bad output shaft seal very likely. It shouldn't be a big deal to have it replaced though. Remove the center driveshaft, remove the output shaft flange and hopefully the seal can be removed from that point without the removal of the tailshaft housing. The flange probably uses a good sized nut you wont have a socket for.

Be prepared for some run around from the typical shop. They will want to clean the area and have you return another day to verify the source of the leak. Then they will order the part/parts needed and do the actual work on the third visit

If you have the EPC you might be able to determine if the seal can be easily replaced after removing the flange. If so the repair should be cheap. If they have to remove the tailshaft or transmission itself it could get expensive fast.

You are correct to assume that it will probably get worse, but very slowly. The leaking ATF is a perfect underbody rust inhibitor

I doubt the truck will give you a low trans fluid warning, so keep an eye on it. The way it looks to me though, it could leak like that for years before you would need to add fluid.

Since you have already done a trans service, I can't think of anything else to do while fixing the seal.

#7180 - in reply to #6949

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Posted 5/2/2006 4:25 PM

AlanMcR
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
2000

If it is ATF, there are more likely leak sources

These transmissions are notorious for leaking around the electrical connector. My wife's E is on it's 3rd set of o-rings around the cable junction. MB has re-designed the o-ring compound at least twice. My G, same transmission, has never leaked. So, who knows why it happens.

This is easy and cheap to fix, if that is the source. The connector goes in above the front right (might be left) corner of the ATF pan. It is heat shielded (on the E) with a small black metal panel. If you see any oil around there, clean very carefully and check back both before and after driving. Wind blows the oil everywhere.

#7187 - in reply to #7160

Author

Posted 5/2/2006 8:43 PM

fernweh

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
2000

RE: If it is ATF, there are more likely leak sources

I just checked the WIS and EPC for my G (463.228) and the output shaft has a shaft seal but also an o-ring under the nut of the driveshaft flanch which sits on transmission output shaft.
What type G 463.xxx do you have? I'll check the WIS for your specific model.

Karl

#7379 - in reply to #7187

Author

Posted 5/3/2006 11:40 AM

Ed Mclass
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Vehicle(s): 1958 180a, 2010 GLK, 2000 G 500, 2005 SLK 350
Posts: 1215
1000

Re: Seeing a little fluid under the truck...

You might try a gentle tightening on the drain plug on the tranny. That at least slowed it down on my '86 280 GE.

#7782 - in reply to #6949

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Posted 5/3/2006 12:50 PM

ewalberg
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
1000

RE: If it is ATF, there are more likely leak sources

I believe my convert VIN to be this. WDB4632411x120507

On my old computer i got my EPC up and running but never was able to get a WIS working... new computer now (laptop) and I can't get anything to run.

i remember there were some conditions for checking the tranny fluid level... warm vs. cold. Anybody remember them off the top of their head?

#7793 - in reply to #7379

Author

Posted 5/3/2006 1:30 PM

AlanMcR
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
2000

RE: If it is ATF, there are more likely leak sources

ewalberg - 5/3/2006 9:50 AM

I believe my convert VIN to be this. WDB4632411x120507

On my old computer i got my EPC up and running but never was able to get a WIS working... new computer now (laptop) and I can't get anything to run.

i remember there were some conditions for checking the tranny fluid level... warm vs. cold. Anybody remember them off the top of their head?

Checking fluid: Start engine (warmed up or cold), run through PRND and then back to park. Insert dipstick until it just touches the bottom of the pan. There will be several inches of dipstick out of the tube. Pull back and check the height. There are two zones on the plastic tip. One for hot and one for cold.

Don't change anything until you are absolutely sure of the leak source. The swirling winds under the truck spread that oil everywhere.

#7795 - in reply to #7793

Author

Posted 5/3/2006 2:38 PM

ewalberg
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
1000

RE: If it is ATF, there are more likely leak sources

thanks for the instructions... yeah, i'm comfortable keeping an eye on the levels and changing it only after determining the real source. I'd rather not mess with the drive-train until it's necessary.

(hope your desert trip went well!)

#7817 - in reply to #7795

Author

Posted 5/3/2006 2:41 PM

DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
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RE: If it is ATF, there are more likely leak sources

ewalberg - 5/3/2006 2:38 PM

thanks for the instructions... yeah, i'm comfortable keeping an eye on the levels and changing it only after determining the real source. I'd rather not mess with the drive-train until it's necessary.

(hope your desert trip went well!)

When you changed the ATF, did you replace the pan gasket and torque it properly? Have you retorqued it? Any signs of the seep around that pan gasket?

#7820 - in reply to #7817

Author

Posted 5/3/2006 3:31 PM

fernweh

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
2000

RE: If it is ATF, there are more likely leak sources

i remember there were some conditions for checking the tranny fluid level... warm vs. cold. Anybody remember them off the top of their head?

My WIS is working just fine, but I only can print to the printer not to a file. If you PM me your email address I'll can send a scan of the 3 pages - fluid level. The scan/picture still too large to post here.

Karl

#7847 - in reply to #7793

Author

Posted 5/3/2006 4:15 PM

KERR

Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):

Re: Seeing a little fluid under the truck...

on one of my 9,000 trips to the dealer. i had some fluid same as your but not as much. they said two bolts where a little loose in the transfercase. they replaced the bolts so they said and i havent had any more issues.

#7873 - in reply to #6949

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