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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Darren at Collie Autoworks is not only one heck of a knowledgeable G mechanic (ask him anything about 463 electronic troubles, and he usually knows a remedy without even looking it up) he let me play with the input options for larger tires to solve my ESP interferences due to the 295/75R16 tires that I had mounted on my G500 some time ago.
The calculated difference between stock 265/60R18 (2367 mm) tires and the new 295/75R16 (2590 mm) tires is about 10%. Enough to freak out ESP in fast turns - especially downhill.
We went into the transmission setup (not into the instrument cluster as recomended by some). The optional 8.25R16 with U=2620 mm tire size is closest to the 295/75R16 (2590 mm).
But we did not put the 8.25R16 in, since we also discovered that you can modify the setting for the diffs. Would it be possible to combine the diff setting with the tire settings?
We chose 235/85R16 (2475 mm) - a 4.5% gain
plus 4.111:1 diffs - an additional 6% gain
all in all 10.5% - 10% was needed
very cool!
Speed indicated and miles driven on the instrument cluster is still off. So the instrument cluster setting should also be adjusted (next time when I am in San Rafael).
First results: the G500 is noticeably more responsive, accelerates faster and shifts differently, fuel economy improved by 10% (calculated with GPS since instrument cluster is still off). And the best thing is that ESP is no longer acting up. Now that's a major improvement. Amazing what a willing mechanic can do for you.
Now, based on the fact that you can combine diff and tire settings, you could input 4.111 gears and 8.25R16 tires - that would allow you to run 35" tires without upsetting ESP.
http://www.collieautoworks.com
Edited by 4x4abc 11/7/2007 1:00 AM
 (tires.jpg)
 (axle.jpg)
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 tires.jpg (68KB - 42 downloads)
axle.jpg (51KB - 22 downloads)
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KERR
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Man i wish he was not in san rafeal!!! i would spend more moeny to get my esp fixed..
With you finding out this information about the trans and the diff computers would it be possiable to now install lower gear like 5:33 or something in the G then have him work his magic. Id kill for lower gears to get my bottom end back. Then look into doing a GV overdrive kit to give me two more gears for free way crusing.
His next trick need to be to develop a computer program that will let used down load the info off there G's computer and send it to him for modification then he can e mail it back... With LS1 edit on GM cars and the aem on the supra you can share files. Im sure there is nothing like that for the benz though.. |
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UN Mobile
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Greetings,
I have 235/85/16 tires and have already made the adjustment in the computer for that size and it did change the driving charecteristics some but my ESP problems persist. Would you suggest some other tire/axle ratio??
I will be taking my G500 up to San rafeal for some maintenace in the the near future and will add this to the list that Darren can help me with. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Kerr,
5.286 gears would accomodate 35" to 36+" tires (U=2790 to 2870 mm)
4.857 gears would accomodate 32" to 33+" tires (U=2550 to 2630 mm)
stock 4.375 gears shoul be good up to 31+" tires (U=2360 to 2470 mm)
stock:
265/60R18, U=2367 mm, 29.66"
265/70R16, U=2357 mm, 29.54"
235/85R16, U=2442 mm, 30.60" -
255/85R16, U=2545 mm, 31.89" - 7.5% loss
265/75R16, U=2450 mm, 30.80" -
275/70R16, U=2416 mm, 30.28" -
285/75R16, U=2545 mm, 31.89" - 7.5% loss
295/75R16, U=2590 mm, 32.46" - 10% loss
305/70R16, U=2540 mm, 31.83" - 7% loss
305/75R16, U=2681 mm, 33.60" - 13% loss
stock diffs 4.375:1
optional 4.857:1 = 11% gain
optional 5.286:1 = 20% gain |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Todd,
was the change made for the instrument cluster or for the transmission module?
The instrument cluster settings affect only speed and miles (signal comes from front left wheel) - no effect on ESP
The transmission module settings affect shift points, engine management and ESP (signal comes from input shaft plus all 4 wheels).
Also, 235/85R16 is only 1" taller than stock - and I am surprised to hear that you had ESP problems at all. You could experiement with the 8.25R16C setting. I am certain, Darren will help you out.
I am more than happy with the results. I stepped on it really hard yesterday (driving faster than I normally would) and only got a little flickering of the triangle out of it - not the aggressive brake interference I had to deal with before (I always had one foot lightly on the brake pedal to fool the computer into "thinking", I was in control of the situation). Without activating the brake control switch in tight fast turns downhill, ESP would send me into oncoming traffic or into the ditch (ESP always "steers" you out of the turn)
Edited by 4x4abc 11/7/2007 11:21 AM
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mb230s
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SWFL
Vehicle(s): G-less for now, vintage MBs, FJ40
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Steve of NLBenz reset my truck for the Toyo Open Country tires I have. He has a StarDiag machine. Not sure what menus he did it in - but my ESP, speedo, acceleration, shift points, etc are normal. |
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KERR
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
awsome,
Let me guess they dont make a 5:28 gears set for our axles. |
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UN Mobile
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Harald,
Both, the transmission module and the command/nav unit were updated. Your description of the ESP pulling violently to the outside of turn is what I have experienced. Hopefully the other size, input into the transmission module will settle it down, otherwise I will be grounding (through a switch) pin 7 on the locker cluster. Which will disable ESP ABS BAS.
Off Topic:
I will be meeting a small group of guys mon. the 12th at 9:30am to run up Fordyce creek, starting at the staging area off of Eagle lakes exit. I will probally go all the way through to Meadow lake and return to Truckee via Hwy 89. Mostly a jeep and Toyota crowd as Fordyce is fairly severe. You are welcome to join us. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Todd,
so many playgrounds - so little time.
I'll be in Death Valley with the G-expedition
For on-road travel I would not want to lose ESP, ABS, BAS and Elektronic Brake Force Distribution - they are too valuable to be sacrificed. I would rather have continued to feather my brakes to keep ESP from acting up. But no more need for that sfter the computer correction. |
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Brent
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
KERR - 11/8/2007 7:35 AM
awsome,
Let me guess they dont make a 5:28 gears set for our axles.
It is great to contemplate but even if the gear sets are out there, they are over $1000 a set. That is before installation. You would have to REALLY want it done.
When I had gears done in my 280 by Europa, the bill by then end exceeded $9000.00 and I provided the new CV joints  |
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ez rhino
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Vehicle(s): 2010 Rubicon Unlimited; 2009 Mini Clubman JCW
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Sounds more like the repair bill for a Cessna. |
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Wolfgang
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
The calculated difference between stock 265/60R18 (2367 mm) tires and the new 295/75R16 (2590 mm) tires is about 10%. Enough to freak out ESP in fast turns - especially downhill.
Harald, I wonder why your G has problems in turns with big tires but my ML with 33" BFGs has not. Have you updated the ESP controller as specified in the ESP technical bulletin for the W463? Was about 2004 when it was issued. I suspect that may solve your ESP in downhill turn problem. Requires a new ESP module part number 463 545 23 32 which reduces the G's ESP in turn quirkiness. I can post details in case you cant find it. It's on www.startekinfo.com.
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| larger tires / ESP conflict finally completely solved
after changing the transmission control module (4.11 diff plus 235/85R16) all my previous ESP troubles had disappeared - but the display was still off
http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=9622&pos...
today we changed the setting for the instrument cluster - largest tire size possible is 235/85R16 (no diffs possible or needed - the instrument cluster gets that info from the transmission module)
NOW my display shows exactly the same speed (plus minus 1 mph) as my GPS!
So, in order to change the 463 system to accept larger tires, both instrument cluster and transmission module need to be fed new numbers.
Work done at our local G-guru shop Collie Autoworks in San Rafael
hope, you don't mind the plug - we need to support the good guys
http://collieautoworks.com/ |
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Piggysims
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: larger tires / ESP conflict finally completely solved
What problems did you have with running larger tyres?
I run 35" on mine and have never had any problems?
Just wondered. |
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roughneck
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
| RE: larger tires / ESP conflict finally completely solved
Good work Harald, this kind of research is invaluable.  |
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bwillie
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: larger tires / ESP conflict finally completely solved
This is good news. Are you running 33" tires on it?
With the adjustable pan hard and a good alignment my ESP issues have gone away but I know that the speedo is off. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: larger tires / ESP conflict finally completely solved
Brent,
why did you need an adjustable panhard rod? New/taller springs?
I run 295/75R16 = 32.46" |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: larger tires / ESP conflict finally completely solved
Richard,
post a picture of your G400 with 35's - would love to see it |
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bwillie
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: larger tires / ESP conflict finally completely solved
About 4" taller springs. The front is done I still need to make the adjustment for the rear. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: larger tires / ESP conflict finally completely solved
Brent,
shortening of the effective length of the panhard rod (projection of rod) combined with the shortening of the effective length of the drag link due to taller springs is in line with the shortening of the panhard by compression bending (bad driving and increased weight of the 463 vs 460) - both will cause EPS to act up becuase the steering angle sensor gets the wrong values.
Did you get an adjustable panhard rod? I am thinking of having an adjustable (similar to adjustments in the drag link) panhard fabricated for my future 463 projects.
 (panhard.jpg)
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panhard.jpg (86KB - 6 downloads)
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Piggysims
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: larger tires / ESP conflict finally completely solved
Here she is off roading in wales, UK.
 (Picture 055.jpg)
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Picture 055.jpg (309KB - 7 downloads)
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Piggysims
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: larger tires / ESP conflict finally completely solved
and another
 (Picture 103 (600 x 450).jpg)
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Picture 103 (600 x 450).jpg (104KB - 7 downloads)
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Piggysims
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: larger tires / ESP conflict finally completely solved
Am I right in saying your only running 32.5" wheels? |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: larger tires / ESP conflict finally completely solved
Yes Richard, I am running on 32.5"
yours certainly don't look like 35's
what size are they exactly? |
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bwillie
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Here are a few pictures of the adjustable pan hard arm, along with the 2nd steering stablizer that I added to the drag link. Also a couple quick snaps of the 35x12.5x18 tires.
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bwillie
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Here are a few pictures of the adjustable pan hard arm, along with the 2nd steering stablizer that I added to the drag link. Also a couple quick snaps of the 35x12.5x18 tires.
 (Picture 437a.JPG)
 (Picture 439 a.JPG)
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Picture 437a.JPG (69KB - 15 downloads)
Picture 439 a.JPG (59KB - 14 downloads)
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
looks like the weather under the car is much better than all around you
man, am I glad that I live in Mexico |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Wolfgang,
ESP in 463 is differently configured than in your ML (still 163?)
however, you updated ESP controller info sound very interesting - can you post details?
what about cost involved for changing the unit? |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Brent,
what did you do for clearing the 35's? Springs? Which ones?
I like the 2nd steering stbilizer |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Harald
I would love to hear more details about how to create or obtain adjustable panhard rods
I just found out mine is 760 mm also on the 55
I wonder how much change or in other words how much does the axle move sideways per inch of additional height increase from taller springs?
I am also very interested to find out since my55 is lower stock by an inch than the 500 where is a 55 in comparison to the 500 in regards to steering arm inclination.
My steering rod is 14.5 inches from the ground on the right side(passenger side) of the vehicle and the pitman arm side is half an inch less.
Is the 500 flat or higher on the pitman arm side?
Epc shows different part numbers on pitman arms too between a 55 and a 500 so I am wondering if there is a difference on their heights on that tie rod end |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Brent
Awesome looking truck!
What kind of angle to the ground does your drag link have.
Have you done any mods there? |
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Piggysims
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Hi Harald, as I've done about 10000 miles on them they are now 34 and 15/16ths.
When I'm offroading I let them down to 20psi which makes it a bit more fun but still the ESP doesn't cut in.
Edited by Piggysims 11/21/2007 5:16 AM
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Piggysims
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Hi bwillie, do you still have a good steering lock.
I've just ordered 275/70/18 to go to Morocco with, which are about 33" because of fouling when turning on the standard merc 18's.
Looks good though.
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bwillie
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
The springs are all custom with aluminum spacers up front to level. I am still playing with springs and rates. There is no rubbing at all with the 35's. I have an old drag link that I am going bend to try and make up the angle. There is some bump steer but not bad at all. |
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Skyline
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
4x4abc - 11/6/2007 6:56 AMBut we did not put the 8.25R16 in, since we also discovered that you can modify the setting for the diffs. Would it be possible to combine the diff setting with the tire settings? We chose 235/85R16 (2475 mm ) - a 4.5% gain plus 4.111:1 diffs - an additional 6% gain all in all 10.5% - 10% was needed very cool! the G500 is noticeably more responsive, accelerates faster and shifts differently, fuel economy improved by 10% (calculated with GPS since instrument cluster is still off ). And the best thing is that ESP is no longer acting up. Now that's a major improvement. Amazing what a willing mechanic can do for you. Now, based on the fact that you can combine diff and tire settings, you could input 4.111 gears and 8.25R16 tires - that would allow you to run 35" tires without upsetting ESP. http://www.collieautoworks.comMay I ask why did you choose the 4.111 diffs? They are the longest from all. Wouldn't it be better to go for a shorter one? The 4,857? That's the setting I'm using. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Stitch,
yes, you are right - physically it would be best to have lower (numerically higher) gears to compensate for larger tires.
However, since we did not install lower diff gears , we needed to find virtual settings for the computer to make sense of the lower wheel revolutions created by the larger tires.
Since the computer does not have a setting for 295/75R16 tires, we chose 4.111 gears plus 235/85R16 tires instead.
If you would use the 4.857 setting in the computer, the system would expect higher wheel rpm than with stock tires - that combined with larger tires would create unhappy settings for the transmission plus all the electronic helpers (ESP etc)
Happy Turkey Day!
Edited by 4x4abc 11/22/2007 10:24 AM
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Harald
My G has a little metal label on the axles saying I have 4.111 gears.
What is stock gears on the 500? |
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chris505
Date registered: May 2007
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle(s): '79 280E/'80 280GE/'00 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
So if your G55 has 4.11s than you must be under 2700rpm @ 80mph (stock tire size), do you agree with my calculations?
G500 comes with 4.36:1 differentials.
Edited by chris505 11/24/2007 1:14 AM
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Hi Chris
Thank you for the info
I will look at the rpm and let you know.
I am running 32.8 inch tires and my interest on gears is in regards to better gas mileage as Harald claims with the transmission module changes.
I have no esp issues |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Just went for a drive,around 2700 rpm dead on 80 indicated which should be 86.4 real with my tires |
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chris505
Date registered: May 2007
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle(s): '79 280E/'80 280GE/'00 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
more like 89mph @ 2700rpm
If you change the transmission module setting to the 8.25R16 tires your spedo should be spot on. |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
So what happen to having to change both the tire size AND the the transmission module ?
With my 4.111 there must be no other option( I assume with even higher gears) on my set up.
I need to be totally clear before I ask my tech to go in there and change stuff and see what happens.
Are 8.25R 16 about 32.5 inch diameter?
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Fernando BR
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: Brasil
Vehicle(s): G500/05 300GE/91 300GD/80
| RE: larger tires / ESP conflict finally completely solved
4x4abc - 11/20/2007 4:03 PM
after changing the transmission control module (4.11 diff plus 235/85R16 ) all my previous ESP troubles had disappeared - but the display was still off
http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=9622&pos...
today we changed the setting for the instrument cluster - largest tire size possible is 235/85R16 (no diffs possible or needed - the instrument cluster gets that info from the transmission module )
NOW my display shows exactly the same speed (plus minus 1 mph ) as my GPS!
So, in order to change the 463 system to accept larger tires, both instrument cluster and transmission module need to be fed new numbers.
Work done at our local G-guru shop Collie Autoworks in San Rafael
hope, you don't mind the plug - we need to support the good guys
http://collieautoworks.com/
Harald,
Adjusting tire diameter and diff reduction tell ESP computer that the car is going to run a bigger distance per engine rotation what is right cause your 295/75/16 has a bigger diameter than 235/85/16 ( max diameter adjust) and this is bigger than stock . But i am thinking about the width , it remains different then stock , and the difference increase from 265/295 to 235/295.
Esp would wait less traction and contact with ground then it will have with 295 , but as you experienced nothing happened and everything is ok. I am confuse about that.Do you have an answer? Did you fell something in ABS and BAS response?
I have just transited the adjustment screnn to my mechanic.
Thanks a lot
Fernando
Edited by boewick 11/25/2007 4:58 PM
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chris505
Date registered: May 2007
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle(s): '79 280E/'80 280GE/'00 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
512bbi - 11/25/2007 11:24 AM
So what happen to having to change both the tire size AND the the transmission module ?
With my 4.111 there must be no other option( I assume with even higher gears) on my set up.
I believe 4.11 is the highest you can go (3.72 gears were also made but i think only for 460/461)
I need to be totally clear before I ask my tech to go in there and change stuff and see what happens.
Are 8.25R 16 about 32.5 inch diameter?
yes~33". |
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ewalberg
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Regarding ESP for turning stability/control, tire width alone basically shouldn't affect things because the relative rotation rates of the different tires shouldn't change assuming the offsets stay the same... so if you're running less offset rims then you do have a non-reversible change that will affect the actual rates in turns. Less offset will increase the relative rates between tires.
However wider tires alone could still have an impact if the affect the body roll, such as a wide tire on a narrow rim will likely roll more than the stock configuration unless the tires have a really stiff sidewall.
I wonder if lower gears are put in the g55 to improve the mileage because the engine has the power to afford taller gears. I haven't done all the math, but i'm almost positive i've seen a net longterm gain in Mileage going to my heavier/taller 33's, and i'd guess its from lowering the RPM's because everything else should say it's going to increase my mileage. It would tie in with the fact that the 320's get shorter gears. You get better power/driveability with the shorter gears on the 320, and the incremental increase in mileage is offset by the smaller motor. You put in bigger motors, you can afford to drop gearing and maintain/improve driveability and save a little gas given the motor size.
Edited by ewalberg 11/25/2007 10:18 PM
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chris505
Date registered: May 2007
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle(s): '79 280E/'80 280GE/'00 G500
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
ewalberg, have you fiddled with your speedometer to get accurate mpg figures?
I am very curious to what my mileage would be with 33s. I am also curious if our pre-'02 G500s have that 8.25R16 option.
ps
Just moments ago I was telling my girlfriend while driving back from dinner in the mission that I plan to mount 33" tires on the G500, she opposed the idea thinking it would be an "ugly lifted truck with huge tires", I tried to convince her otherwise but she wasn't hearing it, then 6 blocks from our apartment she pointed to the street corner and said "now THAT is what a G SHOULD look like!" believe it or not she was pointing at your truck off Coal!!! |
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fernweh
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
| RE: larger tires / ESP conflict finally completely solved
4x4abc - 11/20/2007 1:03 PM
after changing the transmission control module (4.11 diff plus 235/85R16 ) all my previous ESP troubles had disappeared - but the display was still off
http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=9622&pos...
today we changed the setting for the instrument cluster - largest tire size possible is 235/85R16 (no diffs possible or needed - the instrument cluster gets that info from the transmission module )
NOW my display shows exactly the same speed (plus minus 1 mph ) as my GPS!
So, in order to change the 463 system to accept larger tires, both instrument cluster and transmission module need to be fed new numbers.
Work done at our local G-guru shop Collie Autoworks in San Rafael
hope, you don't mind the plug - we need to support the good guys
http://collieautoworks.com/
Harald,
just a small correction after I looked in the transmission control module for ever..... 
The coding you are referring to is done in the transfer case control module and I'm still searching for the tire size change in the instrument cluster thing....
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IMG_3216 (Small).JPG (32KB - 10 downloads)
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fernweh
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I found it 
Tire size under 'special equipment' in the variant coding of the Instrument Control Unit.
Let's see if that corrects the speedo problem of being 10% slow...... |
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ewalberg
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
i never saw this question chris505... sorry about that. No i havne't messed with my speedo, but i have measured my odometet/trip distance against a navi so i have been recording my distance traveled and gallons used, and my long term mileage before hand was 14.2 (after corrections, it wasn't that accurate to start) and now it looks based on my estimations (i haven't gone in crunched all the numbers) to be between 14 and 15mpg... 285/70r17's. Highway mileage seems better, city maybe a little worse.
they're basically 33's and no lift. my rims at et35 and 8.5" wide. Just the 265/65r18 bfg a/t ko looks quite a bit nicer in my opinion, but i'm most partial to my setup. Glad she liked it...
At the tech session at collier's there was a really nice mix of g500 with different rim and tire options.
I've never cared that my speedo doesn't read right on... and it doesn't really affect anything else elecronically as far as i can tell. THough i would be curious to see how it changed my shift points, but i've always been pretty happy with them. A bit lazy to downshift as always, but it stays down once it shifts which i like. (no hunting)
PS, my spare is in the upper position to keep it out of harms way. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Only Works on G's w/ECU for the Transfer Case
4x4abc - 11/7/2007 12:56 AM
Darren at Collie Autoworks is not only one heck of a knowledgeable G mechanic (ask him anything about 463 electronic troubles, and he usually knows a remedy without even looking it up ) he let me play with the input options for larger tires to solve my ESP interferences due to the 295/75R16 tires that I had mounted on my G500 some time ago.
The calculated difference between stock 265/60R18 (2367 mm ) tires and the new 295/75R16 (2590 mm ) tires is about 10%. Enough to freak out ESP in fast turns - especially downhill.
We went into the transmission setup (not into the instrument cluster as recomended by some ). The optional 8.25R16 with U=2620 mm tire size is closest to the 295/75R16 (2590 mm ).
But we did not put the 8.25R16 in, since we also discovered that you can modify the setting for the diffs. Would it be possible to combine the diff setting with the tire settings?
We chose 235/85R16 (2475 mm ) - a 4.5% gain
plus 4.111:1 diffs - an additional 6% gain
all in all 10.5% - 10% was needed
very cool!
Speed indicated and miles driven on the instrument cluster is still off. So the instrument cluster setting should also be adjusted (next time when I am in San Rafael ).
First results: the G500 is noticeably more responsive, accelerates faster and shifts differently, fuel economy improved by 10% (calculated with GPS since instrument cluster is still off ). And the best thing is that ESP is no longer acting up. Now that's a major improvement. Amazing what a willing mechanic can do for you.
Now, based on the fact that you can combine diff and tire settings, you could input 4.111 gears and 8.25R16 tires - that would allow you to run 35" tires without upsetting ESP.
http://www.collieautoworks.com
It's actually the setup for the Transfer Case ("VG" in the photos = Verteiler Getrieb = Transfer Case), not the Transmission as stated above; and it only works on G's that have an ECU for the Transfer Case. My 2000 G500 with a manual selector lever for the TC does not have a TC ECU; and, therefore, does not have these adjustments. Only the Instrument Cluster tire adjustment is available on these models.
Of course, I also don't have ESP; so there's no need to have to fool it. |
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fernweh
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
| RE: Only Works on G's w/ECU for the Transfer Case
DUTCH - 3/15/2008 10:46 AM
4x4abc - 11/7/2007 12:56 AM
Darren at Collie Autoworks is not only one heck of a knowledgeable G mechanic (ask him anything about 463 electronic troubles, and he usually knows a remedy without even looking it up ) he let me play with the input options for larger tires to solve my ESP interferences due to the 295/75R16 tires that I had mounted on my G500 some time ago.
The calculated difference between stock 265/60R18 (2367 mm ) tires and the new 295/75R16 (2590 mm ) tires is about 10%. Enough to freak out ESP in fast turns - especially downhill.
We went into the transmission setup (not into the instrument cluster as recomended by some ). The optional 8.25R16 with U=2620 mm tire size is closest to the 295/75R16 (2590 mm ).
But we did not put the 8.25R16 in, since we also discovered that you can modify the setting for the diffs. Would it be possible to combine the diff setting with the tire settings?
We chose 235/85R16 (2475 mm ) - a 4.5% gain
plus 4.111:1 diffs - an additional 6% gain
all in all 10.5% - 10% was needed
very cool!
Speed indicated and miles driven on the instrument cluster is still off. So the instrument cluster setting should also be adjusted (next time when I am in San Rafael ).
First results: the G500 is noticeably more responsive, accelerates faster and shifts differently, fuel economy improved by 10% (calculated with GPS since instrument cluster is still off ). And the best thing is that ESP is no longer acting up. Now that's a major improvement. Amazing what a willing mechanic can do for you.
Now, based on the fact that you can combine diff and tire settings, you could input 4.111 gears and 8.25R16 tires - that would allow you to run 35" tires without upsetting ESP.
http://www.collieautoworks.com
It's actually the setup for the Transfer Case ("VG" in the photos = Verteiler Getrieb = Transfer Case ), not the Transmission as stated above; and it only works on G's that have an ECU for the Transfer Case. My 2000 G500 with a manual selector lever for the TC does not have a TC ECU; and, therefore, does not have these adjustments. Only the Instrument Cluster tire adjustment is available on these models.
Of course, I also don't have ESP; so there's no need to have to fool it.
Huuuh, I thought our moderator reads all our posts........I had corrected 4x4abc's claim already a bit earlier  |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Only Works on G's w/ECU for the Transfer Case
fernweh - 3/16/2008 8:43 AM
Huuuh, I thought our moderator reads all our posts........I had corrected 4x4abc's claim already a bit earlier ;)
Obviously, I don't read them all; but your post didn't point out the fact that the earlier G's do not have an ECU for the TC.  |
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mkappeli
Member
Date registered: Jul 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle(s): 2004 G500
Posts: 5
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Ok, so I'm getting involved with the project of lifting my 2004 G500. I am going to do a 3" Lift and would like to mount 35's on it. The ECU needs to be reprogrammed in order for it to function correctly. So what exactley needs to be done? After reading this post, I see that I need a StarDiag computer to modifiy the transmission module and the instrument module. What exact parameters need to be programmed in for 2004 G500 with 33" Tires and 35" Tires? I figure MB has this computer and if I can give them specific instructions on how to use their computer, they should be able to do the mentioned mods. Comments? |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
mkappeli - 9/27/2008 4:04 PM
Ok, so I'm getting involved with the project of lifting my 2004 G500. I am going to do a 3" Lift and would like to mount 35's on it. The ECU needs to be reprogrammed in order for it to function correctly. So what exactley needs to be done? After reading this post, I see that I need a StarDiag computer to modifiy the transmission module and the instrument module. What exact parameters need to be programmed in for 2004 G500 with 33" Tires and 35" Tires? I figure MB has this computer and if I can give them specific instructions on how to use their computer, they should be able to do the mentioned mods. Comments?
Do us and yourself a favor. Go into your "My Profile" (upper left side of the page) and complete the sections that tell us the year and model of your G, as well as where you're located. We might be able to point you to an indie mechanic who has the STAR Diagnosis System. Most franchised MB dealers will not do much playing with the system in order to prevent any possible liability litigation issues. |
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arthurchapin
Member
Date registered: Jan 2011
Location: Washington State, USA
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 12
| Math check please :)
I am going to take my truck in to have the change made this week and wanted to confirm my math with you guys.
My new tire size 325/60R18 = 33.22 (manufacture spec) or 9% over stock
In Transfercase Setup (VG) there are the following options
265/60R18 - 265/70R16 - 285/55R18 = 30.5"
255/55R18 - 225/75R16 = 29"
235/85R16 - 265/75R16 = 31.75"
8.25R16 = 32.5" (I could be off)
Based on this I should select the 31.75" tire size and then select the 4.11 diffs. which would give me 10.5% up or I could just change the diffs and get 6%. Im guessing it would be better to go with the 1.5% over versus the 3% under?
Also what are the options for the instrament cluster and which screen is that on? I want to give the shop good directions? I think what I read was that the cluster picks up the diff setting so I should set it to the same 265/75R16 tires that I will set in the VG screen.
Does that all sound right? |
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sc_trojan
Member
Date registered: Aug 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Vehicle(s): 05 w463 G55, 07 w251 R500, 03 996tt
Posts: 6
| how to reduce esp in 05 g55???
4x4abc, question for you- I have a 05 g55 with stock 285/55/18 wheels. My esp settings are stock. I find that when I take a moderately aggressive turn, the esp turns on. Secondly, I see that even if I turn off the ESP on the center console, it turns itself back on after 40mph.
Thus, if I wanted to lessen the amount of ESP interaction, can I adjust the diff to 4.11:1 or set my tire size to the largest possible? or both? I assume doing this will reduce the amount of ESP activation which isn't good for wet weather? Since I live in los angeles, wet weather and snow are not real issues. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: how to reduce esp in 05 g55???
there is nothing you can do except driving slower
so slow that the MB engineers thought would be safe for the G55
changing the modules to a different tire size and/or diff setting will make matters worse - the computer will freak out
there is one option that takes some practice and may require going to one of the racing schools:
learn to drive with both feet (at all times - not just on occasion)
if you have you left foot on the brake pedal (just enough to open the electric contact, but not so much as to actually brake) while driving very spirited turns ESP will not kick in unless you are about to lose control
the way the software is written, is that when the brake is activated the computer thinks the driver is in control of the situation and will step in very late
I have done this for a long time with my larger tires and the hyper sensitive ESP before we found the current setup solution
so, go learn how to drive with both feet (once your left foot can brake as sensitively as your right you have arrived - and it has to become second nature) |
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jeremyw
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle(s): '03 G500 O'erlanderwagen
Posts: 846
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Harald, what if you have 2 left feet or heaven forbid, 3 feet? What then?
Great info here! |
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Indiana Drew
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Houston Tx
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500
Posts: 2223
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I had my mechanic make the adjustments (33.3") and all feels much better - still getting the ESP on the sweeping lefts and that is at about 30 mph ... Speedometer is within .5 mph at 60 mph ... All in all much better! |
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clubgwagen.com
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: gwagenpreserve.com
Vehicle(s): 300GE Cabriolet
Posts: 736
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Harald is right, that is the trick to getting around ESP intervention on a modern 463 car.
And offroad, or rally driving, you need to learn how to drive with two feet anyway, so this might as well be your excuse to start learning!
Most racing schools will still teach heel - toe method (using just one foot) because its still largely based on having a clutch in most sports and race cars that amatuers use. Ofcourse since the betterment of tiptronic and Ferrari F1 paddle shift tech has entered cars like a WRX, etc, some schools are now starting to teach two foot driving.
-mserpe
not just a G guy...my other history is
(a Porsche track school driving instructor 1997-2003)
now a private instructor
Raced Porsches 16 years
Raced Saab and GTI ice and rally cars....where you really learn how to drive
2wd racing in the snow and ice of Maine, Canada, and NY State
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I believe that Karl and Richard have wired in an ESP kill switch that is not limited like the stock switch at 40 mph. The issue with the '05 G55 is likely the yaw sensors that are sensing the pitch or roll of the car in a fast turn. That is the only time I have ESP issues; also with 33.2" tires and a Star computer reset. I think the reason that Karl was having ESP issues was most likely due to this same fact combined with driving roads like Topanga or Malibu Canyon. |
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Indiana Drew
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Houston Tx
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500
Posts: 2223
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I guess it could be the yaw sensor even in the slow speed sweeping lefts ... |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: how to reduce esp in 05 g55???
sc_trojan - 1/14/2011 8:11 PM
4x4abc, question for you- I have a 05 g55 with stock 285/55/18 wheels. My esp settings are stock. I find that when I take a moderately aggressive turn, the esp turns on. Secondly, I see that even if I turn off the ESP on the center console, it turns itself back on after 40mph.
Thus, if I wanted to lessen the amount of ESP interaction, can I adjust the diff to 4.11:1 or set my tire size to the largest possible? or both? I assume doing this will reduce the amount of ESP activation which isn't good for wet weather? Since I live in los angeles, wet weather and snow are not real issues.
What is the tire pressure on your tires?
Are they stock?
Is your tire pressure set at the max values by the manufacturer?
The Esp on my truck does not act up even in turns fast enough to burn rubber on turns as long as I do not get on an over or under steer balance and start sliding very fast.
Being on the gas instead of the brakes fast into a turn will keep the esp from doing anything at all on an 05 G55 unless you get very deep into loosing control.
With 285-65-18 revo 2s and the trasnfer case module on 235-85-16s with 35 psi I feel my truck out handled the stock set up with the soft four ply tires on any surface.
For what you seem to like if there is a tire you can get that has stiffer sidewall than stock keeping your truck stock it might help with better handling and no esp issues...
How many miles on your truck?
Fresh shocks and all suspension components in top shape makes a world of difference keeping your esp from coming active on a G55.
Besides shocks being fresh, the roll bar bushings on a G55 can get where they have play from being used enough and cause more body roll than you want to keep the esp snoozing...
Mario
Mario |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Mario,
what you are saying is that if you keep the stock tires but set the transfercase module to 235/85 R 16 you will have less ESP interference than before?
That would be an interesting twist! |
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autonovice
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2006
Location: New York City
Vehicle(s): '05 G55K, '92 350GDT
Posts: 684
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Am I getting this right? I get 2in more in tire height and 2.5% in error
Mario ... I noted of all your mods but not this one. I am due for new tires and I will
go with your set up: red fronts, brown rears, konis all around w/ special tabs and
now changes to the TC module
Stock Tire..................285/55R18..Tire 1 - 285/65R18...Tire 2 - 235/85R16
Overall Diameter:......30.34 in..................32.58 in...................31.72 in
Diameter Difference: 0%.........................6.88%.....................4.36%
Edited by autonovice 1/18/2011 2:10 PM
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
ahh, I get it Mario, you have taller tires
so, nothing new here |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
autonovice - 1/18/2011 12:07 PM
Am I getting this right? I get 2in more in tire height and 2.5% in error
Mario ... I noted of all your mods but not this one. I am due for new tires and I will
go with your set up: red fronts, brown rears, konis all around w/ special tabs and
now changes to the TC module
Stock Tire..................285/55R18..Tire 1 - 285/65R18...Tire 2 - 235/85R16
Overall Diameter:......30.34 in..................32.58 in...................31.72 in
Diameter Difference: 0%.........................6.88%.....................4.36%
Lets try again.
Stock tires(size wise) but stiffer sidewall = better handling,including fresh shocks ....lots of miles on your truck?
Stock shocks are half gone at 20k if you want handling!
With my set up the spring rate is not just red fronts and brown rears.
If you do that with other shocks than stock you will not have better handling and if you do so with the stock shocks you will have a rough ride.
I have cilastios on my shocks custom build to add to the spring rate in heavier bumps and keep the comfort of red springs on pavement.
Your stock amg shocks have them also but when the extension damping forces start going away if your truck has some miles your ride will get rougher and it will not handle as good as new all other components being good.
With my tires I found all electronics working better and faster with the 235-85-16 transfer case module setting and I have experimented with all the settings and my tire size.
The stock settings with my tire size never had any issues but it was not as fast as stock tires on ice with the stock settings.
Red front springs and white rears is bad balance of spring rate on my G at least so the cilastios make it right.
If you go to my tire size and springs you will spend a lot of money on custom shocks,panhard rod mod,cilastios(cheap) and some more stuff.....
If you do not of road much and just want good handling with out spending too much money,if I was you I would buy some good rubber stock size,new front shocks from a 2011 g55,and I would keep the rear stock..... take the rear shocks out pull the cilastios out and cut half inch of the flat end and put it all back together.
I would do this at the rear only if you do not carry four people and lots of luggage when you try to do your sport driving......
You will find out it will increase your front caster slightly (lower the rear very little) increase comfort and sharpen your handling going into corners.
The rear shocks are good for 60k plus if you drive pavement mostly.
Harald
As always I am expressing personal experiences for anyones benefit that wants to know what happens to my truck when I make changes trying to better things for my use....I am not talking theories....so have another cerveza for me
Mario |
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jeremyw
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle(s): '03 G500 O'erlanderwagen
Posts: 846
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I searched but didn't find much....what are cilastios? |
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Indiana Drew
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Houston Tx
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500
Posts: 2223
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
jeremyw - 1/21/2011 7:09 PM I searched but didn't find much....what are cilastios?
"They go around the shaft of the shock and they decrease body roll increase stability and allow you to run softer springs and softer roll bars in order to maintain articulation and better handling on irregular surfaces of the softer spring ratios with the ability to handle stronger forces in compressions that heavier springs can do."
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jeremyw
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle(s): '03 G500 O'erlanderwagen
Posts: 846
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Indiana Drew - 1/21/2011 5:41 PM
jeremyw - 1/21/2011 7:09 PM I searched but didn't find much....what are cilastios?
"They go around the shaft of the shock and they decrease body roll increase stability and allow you to run softer springs and softer roll bars in order to maintain articulation and better handling on irregular surfaces of the softer spring ratios with the ability to handle stronger forces in compressions that heavier springs can do."
Thanks Drew. Anyone have a picture? |
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Indiana Drew
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Houston Tx
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500
Posts: 2223
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
jeremyw - 1/21/2011 8:13 PM Indiana Drew - 1/21/2011 5:41 PM jeremyw - 1/21/2011 7:09 PM I searched but didn't find much....what are cilastios?
"They go around the shaft of the shock and they decrease body roll increase stability and allow you to run softer springs and softer roll bars in order to maintain articulation and better handling on irregular surfaces of the softer spring ratios with the ability to handle stronger forces in compressions that heavier springs can do."
Thanks Drew. Anyone have a picture?
No problem - I really don't know exactly what it is either :err: ... Thanks for asking the question ...  |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Indiana Drew - 1/21/2011 7:29 PM
jeremyw - 1/21/2011 8:13 PM Indiana Drew - 1/21/2011 5:41 PM jeremyw - 1/21/2011 7:09 PM I searched but didn't find much....what are cilastios?
"They go around the shaft of the shock and they decrease body roll increase stability and allow you to run softer springs and softer roll bars in order to maintain articulation and better handling on irregular surfaces of the softer spring ratios with the ability to handle stronger forces in compressions that heavier springs can do."
Thanks Drew. Anyone have a picture?
No problem - I really don't know exactly what it is either :err: ... Thanks for asking the question ...
On the G55 they are already compressed some at normal ride height (stock springs)
At the rear they are very stiff and the shocks are set to be the same on extension....when the shocks start loosing their effectiveness by loosing force as they wear out the quality of the ride and handling starts to become very bad.
The G55 stock can ride like an one ton pick up with bad shocks with enough miles on the clock.
There is no esp issues with my set up and I like the extra articulation that I have with the 90 series Konis since the front end has been transformed in traction due to the extra shock travel and all electronics work great with it all.
Today I was watching the esp do its marvel at 70mph on Rucker road heading to the west side of the chiricahuas of AZ, a very wide and smooth dirt road with lots of dips and rises and a few sharp turns.
The G run great and if I was on the gas through a turn fast enough to slide i could do so with all four with no esp coming on and if I came in a corner too fast and lift with turning the steering fast to where I want to go the esp would cut in very fast correct the balance and still let me keep a lot of speed.
With the stock setting and my size tires in the same drive it would let me start over steering before it would cut in very abruptly.....so on the G55 the esp is fast and forgiving to go fast and even though it does not act up if you go up in tire size it does work better adjusted to the change....
Be aware of low tire pressures at speed ,I believe they do cause the esp to behave bad...so I wonder if some that have problems here with esp might be running very tall sidewalls with very low pressures.
Mario |
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ewalberg
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
mario, we call them "elastomers" or maybe "bump stops" here. I'm not sure if it's still common, but used to be common in mountains bikes. I wouldn't recommend using them for primary suspension because they tend to be very temperature sensitive (compared to a steel spring). But for bumps stops (just at the end of travel) i think they'd be a good idea. Or in your case of cutting in half an existing elastomer at the end of the shock where it bolts to the axle or chassis, you'll simply be doubling it's stiffness to make it more sensitive. |
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ewalberg
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
it's been noted on several occasions that i recall that the g55 come with lower axle gearing than g55 to help out in gas mileage since they have extra HP. Same story with the g320 i think have higher gearing so they still drive nicely through gears but you pay for a little more fuel using higher RPM on highway, but that way you keep the power feeling nice. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Erik,
the G55 has higher gearing (numerically lower) - the G320 lower gearing (numerically higher) |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
ewalberg - 1/24/2011 6:40 PM
mario, we call them "elastomers" or maybe "bump stops" here. I'm not sure if it's still common, but used to be common in mountains bikes. I wouldn't recommend using them for primary suspension because they tend to be very temperature sensitive (compared to a steel spring). But for bumps stops (just at the end of travel) i think they'd be a good idea. Or in your case of cutting in half an existing elastomer at the end of the shock where it bolts to the axle or chassis, you'll simply be doubling it's stiffness to make it more sensitive.
No relationship to bump stops,elastomers,and nothing to do with the end of the shock where it bolts to the axle.
They are not temperature sensitive or related to bike suspensions.
I suspect all the new Gs have them not just the AMGs and I am sure your MB dealer would not know anything about them.
If you test drive the new Gs you will notice how much lighter they feel and how much less body roll they have .
My gears are 4.11 stock
Mario
Edited by 512bbi 1/25/2011 3:39 AM
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| correction
sorry - wrong button
Edited by 4x4abc 1/25/2011 6:19 AM
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jeremyw
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle(s): '03 G500 O'erlanderwagen
Posts: 846
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
512bbi - 1/25/2011 12:33 AM
ewalberg - 1/24/2011 6:40 PM
mario, we call them "elastomers" or maybe "bump stops" here. I'm not sure if it's still common, but used to be common in mountains bikes. I wouldn't recommend using them for primary suspension because they tend to be very temperature sensitive (compared to a steel spring). But for bumps stops (just at the end of travel) i think they'd be a good idea. Or in your case of cutting in half an existing elastomer at the end of the shock where it bolts to the axle or chassis, you'll simply be doubling it's stiffness to make it more sensitive.
No relationship to bump stops,elastomers,and nothing to do with the end of the shock where it bolts to the axle.
They are not temperature sensitive or related to bike suspensions.
I suspect all the new Gs have them not just the AMGs and I am sure your MB dealer would not know anything about them.
If you test drive the new Gs you will notice how much lighter they feel and how much less body roll they have .
My gears are 4.11 stock
Mario
Standard forum slang Mario; "This thread is worthless without pictars."  |
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ashbelinc
New user
Date registered: Aug 2011
Location:
Vehicle(s):
Posts: 1
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Hi everyone I am running 285/65/18 on 2003 g wagon. ESP is killing me. Can any one help with coding for ESP module pleaseee
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
ashbelinc - 1/9/2012 2:19 PM
Hi everyone I am running 285/65/18 on 2003 g wagon. ESP is killing me. Can any one help with coding for ESP module pleaseee
Please go into your My Profile and complete the sections to tell us the year and model of your G, and where you are located. That info will help someone near you to offer to help. |
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Collie Autoworks is an amazing shop. Darren's attention to detail is remarkable. He is very, very methodical.
A wonderful business. Wish he was closer to South Florida myself! |
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G1979
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Indialantic, Fl
Vehicle(s): G500 2005
Posts: 185
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I do have a question for the Star Diagnotic Gurus
I can't find tire size change in the instrument cluster
I look under 'special equipment' in the variant coding of the Instrument Control Unit and is not there.
Any thoughts?
JV
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fernweh
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
G1979 - 1/13/2012 8:09 AM
I do have a question for the Star Diagnotic Gurus
I can't find tire size change in the instrument cluster
I look under 'special equipment' in the variant coding of the Instrument Control Unit and is not there.
Any thoughts?
JV
To change the tire size in the combi instrument you would have to access that menu through the Comand system in your G-wagen.
For the changes in the VG ECU with the Star system please have a look a the screen shot.
Karl
Edited by fernweh 1/13/2012 12:41 PM
 (IMG_3215 (Medium).JPG)
Attachments
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IMG_3215 (Medium).JPG (47KB - 5 downloads)
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G1979
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Indialantic, Fl
Vehicle(s): G500 2005
Posts: 185
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I don't have a comand unit.
I have an after market radio.
JV
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Do I remember right ?
Was it the transfer case module?... and the instrument cluster is only for the speedo adjustment...just had it rechecked when i got the new toy last year....star diagnostic from england....it diagnosed the ML and the savings where worth it than paying the stealeship!
Mario |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
yes, its in the transfer case module |
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G1979
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Indialantic, Fl
Vehicle(s): G500 2005
Posts: 185
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Karl
There is no calibration on the MY2008 comand system
to set tire size.
I look everywhere.
JV |
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Stupid question here guys. I'm looking to put a 33.2" tire on my cousins G500. Aren't the listed 8.25 R16c tires the Michelin XZL's they put on Canadian trucks, IFAV's etc? I believe this tire is 34" tall. What would be the outcome of using this larger tire diameter for the input on a 33.2" tire vs using the 31.8" of the 235, 85 16?
The tire we are looking to mount is the Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac in 275/70/18.
Edited by Adoni 2/15/2012 1:00 PM
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fernweh
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
G1979 - 2/15/2012 5:57 AM
Karl
There is no calibration on the MY2008 comand system
to set tire size.
I look everywhere.
JV
JV,
you have to access the "secret" menu in the Comand system to do that. Sorry, but I do not have any experience with the late type Comand system
Karl |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
G1979 - 1/13/2012 9:09 AM
I do have a question for the Star Diagnotic Gurus
I can't find tire size change in the instrument cluster
I look under 'special equipment' in the variant coding of the Instrument Control Unit and is not there.
Any thoughts?
JV
JV
Should your truck be any different than mine on this?
I do have adjustment on the instrument cluster and set it at 235-85-16 for my 285-65-18 size of tires.
The correction on the speedo was small as it was not that far of any ways since it showed more than real with stock tires before adjusting and real close to real with 285-65-18s
Anyone correct me if this is wrong but if I remember right, the important change in the transfer case module does the trick for ESP and etc and the rest..... and the instrument change just corrects speedo and computer estimate on gas mileage.....I wonder why if any would JVs be different.
Mario |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
fernweh - 2/16/2012 12:13 AM
G1979 - 2/15/2012 5:57 AM
Karl
There is no calibration on the MY2008 comand system
to set tire size.
I look everywhere.
JV
JV,
you have to access the "secret" menu in the Comand system to do that. Sorry, but I do not have any experience with the late type Comand system
Karl
If you are attending the SE G-Treffen, we will have a MB Indie mechanic participating with his STAR unit at EuroTruck. Perhaps he can give some guidance on the newer Comand systems. Just one more reason to attend the Treffen. |
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jeremyw
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle(s): '03 G500 O'erlanderwagen
Posts: 846
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
fernweh - 2/15/2012 9:13 PM
G1979 - 2/15/2012 5:57 AM
Karl
There is no calibration on the MY2008 comand system
to set tire size.
I look everywhere.
JV
JV,
you have to access the "secret" menu in the Comand system to do that. Sorry, but I do not have any experience with the late type Comand system
Karl
Ok, what "secret" menu is this? On my '03 G500, I go into the Instrument Cluster settings via the steering wheel, but I don't see anything about tire sizing. I only see things like Speed or Outside Temp, English or Deustch, 12hr or 24hr, etc. Can someone enlighten me? TIA!
PS--I have changed the tires/axle in the Transfer Case Module. |
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autonovice
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2006
Location: New York City
Vehicle(s): '05 G55K, '92 350GDT
Posts: 684
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
jeremyw - 5/14/2012 7:10 PM
fernweh - 2/15/2012 9:13 PM
G1979 - 2/15/2012 5:57 AM
Karl
There is no calibration on the MY2008 comand system
to set tire size.
I look everywhere.
JV
JV,
you have to access the "secret" menu in the Comand system to do that. Sorry, but I do not have any experience with the late type Comand system
Karl
Ok, what "secret" menu is this? On my '03 G500, I go into the Instrument Cluster settings via the steering wheel, but I don't see anything about tire sizing. I only see things like Speed or Outside Temp, English or Deustch, 12hr or 24hr, etc. Can someone enlighten me? TIA!
PS--I have changed the tires/axle in the Transfer Case Module.
http://www.mercupgrades.com/Mercedes%20COMAND%20Diagnostic%20(Service)%20Mode-article-13.html (copy & paste to the Url bar)
Edited by autonovice 5/15/2012 12:56 AM
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
jeremyw - 5/14/2012 7:10 PM
Ok, what "secret" menu is this? On my '03 G500, I go into the Instrument Cluster settings via the steering wheel, but I don't see anything about tire sizing. I only see things like Speed or Outside Temp, English or Deustch, 12hr or 24hr, etc. Can someone enlighten me? TIA!
PS--I have changed the tires/axle in the Transfer Case Module.
Go to service menu on the Comand, hold down "mute" "1" and "3" simultaneously and you will get into the secret Comand menu
E
Edited by otiswesty 5/15/2012 1:31 PM
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jeremyw
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle(s): '03 G500 O'erlanderwagen
Posts: 846
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Ok, got into secret menu, but see nothing about tire size. Does my '03 not have this option to change in the "cluster?" |
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jeremyw
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle(s): '03 G500 O'erlanderwagen
Posts: 846
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
jeremyw - 5/15/2012 9:53 PM
Ok, got into secret menu, but see nothing about tire size. Does my '03 not have this option to change in the "cluster?"
Anyone?? |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I would assume so, but mine is an '02
We can look at it later. Are you having any specific troubles? |
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jeremyw
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle(s): '03 G500 O'erlanderwagen
Posts: 846
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
otiswesty - 5/18/2012 1:54 PM
I would assume so, but mine is an '02
We can look at it later. Are you having any specific troubles?
From what I can tell so far, no more ESP engagement in sweepers over 30mph. Phew, that was really crappy headed out to Brown's Camp last weekend.
However still, on very tight "corkscrews" down hill to right or left (read; weight transfer to front) even at 19mph, the truck gets pissed and throws the ESP Bermuda Triangle. I don't expect the Cluster re-coding will help this, but I'd like to make sure my speedo and mpg and everything are as close to spot-on as possible. |
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chris505
Date registered: May 2007
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle(s): '79 280E/'80 280GE/'00 G500
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
jeremyw - 5/18/2012 3:39 PM
... on very tight "corkscrews" down hill to right or left (read; weight transfer to front) even at 19mph, the truck gets pissed and throws the ESP Bermuda Triangle.
Back in 2001 my brother bought a brand new 2002 G500, his first road trip in the vehicle from San Diego to Palm Springs was on a road full of tight corners, same things were happening to that brand new unaltered truck. He soon learned that the brake pedal was unnecessary and just let the vehicle drive itself down the mountain by only steering, by the time he reached Palm Springs the front rotors were warped.
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thebigblue
Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
jeremyw - 5/18/2012 10:49 PM
jeremyw - 5/15/2012 9:53 PM
Ok, got into secret menu, but see nothing about tire size. Does my '03 not have this option to change in the "cluster?"
Anyone??
I looked onto my command in my MY2005 G400 CDi, nothing around tire sizes....  |
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autonovice
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2006
Location: New York City
Vehicle(s): '05 G55K, '92 350GDT
Posts: 684
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
chris505 - 5/18/2012 5:33 PM
jeremyw - 5/18/2012 3:39 PM
... on very tight "corkscrews" down hill to right or left (read; weight transfer to front) even at 19mph, the truck gets pissed and throws the ESP Bermuda Triangle.
Back in 2001 my brother bought a brand new 2002 G500, his first road trip in the vehicle from San Diego to Palm Springs was on a road full of tight corners, same things were happening to that brand new unaltered truck. He soon learned that the brake pedal was unnecessary and just let the vehicle drive itself down the mountain by only steering, by the time he reached Palm Springs the front rotors were warped.
The experience was scary if you are not
aware of the "feature". I was commanding
Karl's machine. With all the bell, whistle,
and warning from Karl, it did not stick to my
ears until I experienced it and I was only
doing 10mph left turn down a steep hill.
Lesson here is to put in an abs disable switch
and keep a reminder of this feature. It is not
that bad once you master this feature.
All the reasons why I am going back to
the old school machine. I told u to keep
crazy red flyer!
Edited by autonovice 5/20/2012 2:06 PM
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jeremyw
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle(s): '03 G500 O'erlanderwagen
Posts: 846
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
autonovice - 5/20/2012 11:03 AM
chris505 - 5/18/2012 5:33 PM
jeremyw - 5/18/2012 3:39 PM
... on very tight "corkscrews" down hill to right or left (read; weight transfer to front) even at 19mph, the truck gets pissed and throws the ESP Bermuda Triangle.
Back in 2001 my brother bought a brand new 2002 G500, his first road trip in the vehicle from San Diego to Palm Springs was on a road full of tight corners, same things were happening to that brand new unaltered truck. He soon learned that the brake pedal was unnecessary and just let the vehicle drive itself down the mountain by only steering, by the time he reached Palm Springs the front rotors were warped.
The experience was scary if you are not
aware of the "feature". I was commanding
Karl's machine. With all the bell, whistle,
and warning from Karl, it did not stick to my
ears until I experienced it and I was only
doing 10mph left turn down a steep hill.
Lesson here is to put in an abs disable switch
and keep a reminder of this feature. It is not
that bad once you master this feature.
All the reasons why I am going back to
the old school machine. I told u to keep
crazy red flyer!
Oh it's fine, it just takes some getting used to. I was more concerned with the 50mph sweepers and ESP kicking in. With my changes via Autologic, ESP isn't kicking in then anymore, only very tight corners/downhill especially.
Anyone have any more info in changing tire sizes via secret COMAND path on an '03 G500? |
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zimm
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Feb 2010
Location: pittsburgh
Vehicle(s): lx470, 76 fj40, 72fj40, 96 gelandewagen g320.
Posts: 788
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
so, an 02 has more user input than an 03? |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Tom Deckowski told me about the tire input service menu change in his 2002 G500
I have made the corrections in my own truck via DAS-Star diagnostics input but have not taken the time to look for the service menu. I hope it is not misinformation. Maybe Tom will chip in here. |
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devildog
Member
Date registered: Feb 2012
Location: Miami, Fl USA
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 USA Model
Posts: 5
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I have 2002 g500 usa model, I plan on running 285/60/18 nitto dune grapplers on the stock 18" rims. What settings should I run in the computer. I saw your post but got a little confused. Any clairification would be great..... |
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devildog
Member
Date registered: Feb 2012
Location: Miami, Fl USA
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 USA Model
Posts: 5
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Pulled the trigger today on a set of NITTO DUNE GRAPPLERES 285/60/18. Chose these tires because they don't have large lugs on tred pattern, hence making them oem quiet. No hummmming at all. Love the new look.
Edited by devildog 6/4/2012 10:43 PM
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
devildog - 5/21/2012 2:26 PM
I have 2002 g500 usa model, I plan on running 285/60/18 nitto dune grapplers on the stock 18" rims. What settings should I run in the computer. I saw your post but got a little confused. Any clairification would be great.....
With the size tire you installed I feel if you set your transfer case module for 235-85-16 you will have great performance out of your esp and etc.
Your tires being 285x60%=171mm sidewall x 2=342mm divided by 25.4(one inch in mm)=13.46 inches ,plus 18 inch rim=31.64 diameter tire.
Most 235-85-16s are 31.5 to 32 inch diameter tires so that should be the right choice.
Considering your tires are wider and much lower profile than same diameter on 16s ,that will give you the advantage of less flex on sidewall and much more effective esp action possibly even better than stock.
The opposite applies when installing larger high profile sidewall or even softer winter tires of original diameter which cause esp problems and even more so when under inflated for of road.
Mario |
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devildog
Member
Date registered: Feb 2012
Location: Miami, Fl USA
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 USA Model
Posts: 5
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Do i need to select 4.11 gearing in the transfercase contrul module? |
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michel bertin
Veteran
Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: SFO Bay Area, CA
Vehicle(s): '02 G500, '14 G550
Posts: 124
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I recently replaced the 265/75R16 E Bridgestone Revo's on my '02 G with the size above, 285/75R16 E Revo 2's.
After a long search, I narrowed the choice down to BFG A/T T/A KO D or E load , Michelin A/T 2 or the Revo 2, all 16 or 17 32nd's tread depth. The offroading I do is mostly sandy surfaces and rocky trails, around 20psi warm tire pressure, and I need very safe and sure road behavior. My first Revo's had performed a lot better than prior BFG A/T both off road and on road, never had an issue in 7 yrs. I decided on the Revo 2 after consistent TireRack recommendations and reading every post I could find on many forums. Currently 2K mi on them, very happy.
I followed the instructions in this thread to get the transfer case and cluster adjusted, picked 8.25R16 for transfer case and the largest size available in the cluster, 235/85R16. The result is fantastic!! The transfer case ratio had never been adjusted before. This finally cured untimely ESP behaviors I had on curvy roads.
I take this opportunity to say Thank You very much to Dutch, Brent and everyone contributing to make this a great friendly useful forum for G lovers.
I also put a word (mostly for SFO Bay area owners) for Park Avenue Motors in Palo Alto which has exclusively maintained my G's for 10+yrs to very high standards, Rafael is the master technician who always works on my cars.
Michel |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Michel.
why did you wait 10 years to tell us about a great MB shop?
tips like this are traded like gold |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Opinions differ. They are partly responsible for me deciding to do all of my own mechanical work. Then again, I'm pretty much of a dyed-in-the-wool DIY'er anyway.
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michel bertin
Veteran
Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: SFO Bay Area, CA
Vehicle(s): '02 G500, '14 G550
Posts: 124
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Agree that no person or organization is perfect and there were rare cases early on that I was not happy with Park Avenue. Also I am very demanding in car maintenance, keeping several Mercedes in as new working condition.
Park Avenue has been a Mercedes maintenance shop for 30+ years; their general mgr's Dad was one of the early MBUSA mgrs in California, they have master techs who regularly publish in the Star, and Rafael, the only master tech I work with, is the one they trust to solve tricky issues on the most expensive Mercedes plus he treats any of my cars as his own.
They solved on my '02 G early on many of the issues discussed in this forum, with the care that only great Mercedes maintenance techs would bring. Rafael also installed Mike Serpe's front bumper with my prior Warn 9000 which he had also installed (the bumper is fantastic and Mike was wonderfully helpful as usual), the ORC blue springs, various protection plates etc on my G; and of course he adjusted the transfer case for the 33" tires. They even have a Hunter machine for road force balancing on which they did the Revo 2's and my prior Revo's.
So I highly recommend them to Mercedes and G owners (ask for advisor Paul and tech Rafael...). For anyone interested, I now have the classic G winch bumper and a black G brush guard for sale, plus Europa running boards for short wheel base G; PM me or better, mjbertin@gmail.com.
Michel |
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f4bones
Member
Date registered: Jul 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle(s): 1984 G460 SWB 617A, 1981 500SLC (026), 1985 500SL
Posts: 26
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I have a 2004 G55 that I've owned for about a year - when I first got it, I swapped out the awful G55 springs and shocks for stock G500 ones. The truck came with Nitto 285/65/18 tires on stock G55 wheels. It is VERY scary in wide, medium speed turns, especially when decelerating. I was excited to come across this post, especially as I have a startek DAS setup that I've used on other Mercedes. I successfully logged in and changed the settings on the VG for the larger tires, and while the situation seems to be improved, it is still unacceptable with the outside turn wheel locking on medium speed turns. I read with interest about an updated ESP control box, but have found no further info on this - the PN is available (about $1,100) so I'd like more info on it before going that route. Ultimately, I'm probably going to look for a way to disable the ESP if I can't find a way to tame this beast. Any ideas / hints greatly appreciated! |
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Amnaggar
Veteran
Date registered: May 2013
Location: Dubai
Vehicle(s): '10 G55, '10 C250, '05 Volvo S40 T5, '05 Pajero
Posts: 100
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
How, where and what do you "log into to change the settings"?
Edited by Amnaggar 5/20/2013 5:12 AM
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Amnaggar - 5/20/2013 5:11 AM
How, where and what do you "log into to change the settings"?
You need a STAR diagnostic system to do this. |
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f4bones
Member
Date registered: Jul 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle(s): 1984 G460 SWB 617A, 1981 500SLC (026), 1985 500SL
Posts: 26
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I have a STAR diagnostics system, and have tried several several configurations of tire size and axle ratio, but the problem persists. Does anyone have any info on the upgraded / modified ESP controller mentioned in one of the early posts on this topic? |
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ewalberg
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
there are threads on how to totally disable the ESP system. you can separately enable/disable ESP and ETS if memory serves me. You can wire in a hard switch. |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Apparently with the 2013, the ESP kicks in like an anchor being thrown out the window.
My wife's 2006 E320cdi, the ESP does not turn back on at higher speeds with the ESP off switch. Not sure about the later 463's though. My 2002 could only use the ESP off switch below 40 MPH. It is possible to make aftermarket modification to switch off ESP. Well discussed in the forums here.
One of the reasons I switched to a 1999 G500 was my dislike for the ESP. I do miss the ETS though, great for snow driving. My first experience with wheel spin was in the 1999. The 2002 had ETS and the 1985 300GD had its own reasons. |
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Balto
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 368
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
So what sizes besides 265 60 18 can I put on my '02 G and not have to worry about the ESP and/or trying to find a place to fix it?
Was leaning towards Duratrac's but not 100% yet. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
any tire larger or smaller than 265/60R18 will affect ESP
as long as the replacement tires have about 675 revs per mile or 2367 mm circumference in their spec sheets, they are safe to use
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Balto
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 368
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
4x4abc - 10/13/2014 6:57 AM
any tire larger or smaller than 265/60R18 will affect ESP
as long as the replacement tires have about 675 revs per mile or 2367 mm circumference in their spec sheets, they are safe to use
Thank you |
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Balto
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 368
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
4x4abc - 10/13/2014 6:57 AM
any tire larger or smaller than 265/60R18 will affect ESP
as long as the replacement tires have about 675 revs per mile or 2367 mm circumference in their spec sheets, they are safe to use
Also,
You mention earlier that with adjusting your computers that +10% MPG was achieved? I'm guessing this is only because you lost MPG after the tire size switch and more or less went back to the MPG that you got with factory sized tires?
Do you happen to know what the max size we can get under our G without modification to the fenders/anything else and only have to get the computers adjusted? Guessing 33's and maybe "some" 34's?
Thank you |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
the size I am using currently, 295/75R16, rubbed in the upper rear fender wells
used spring spacers to remedy that
used the same spacers also for the front to keep the vehicle balanced
in the front the tires rub on the leading arms and on the steering box pitman arm
only wheel spacers (or a different ET) will cure that
I decided against it and therefore have to avoid hard left or right |
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traveller09
Member
Date registered: Feb 2012
Location: Renton, WA
Vehicle(s): 95 911, 08 Volvo S60 T5, 2005 G500
Posts: 29
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Hi guys, My rig is in the shop overnight and my MB dealer is willing to make the changes to the computer for me, but they are at a loss as to what to change the settings to. I went with Duratrac 275/70 R18 and of course there is no tire setting for that size. I searched the forum and this tread seemed to fit the bill. I believe I now have 33's on there? Which would indicate a transmission setting of 4.857? What tire sized settings do I use for the odometer change, or keep it stock? Is it ok if they only change the transmission setting without the odometer changing?
Thanks in advance. David From Haralds post: 5.286 gears would accomodate 35" to 36+" tires (U=2790 to 2870 mm)
4.857 gears would accomodate 32" to 33+" tires (U=2550 to 2630 mm)
stock 4.375 gears shoul be good up to 31+" tires (U=2360 to 2470 mm)
stock:
265/60R18, U=2367 mm, 29.66"
265/70R16, U=2357 mm, 29.54"
235/85R16, U=2442 mm, 30.60" -
255/85R16, U=2545 mm, 31.89" - 7.5% loss
265/75R16, U=2450 mm, 30.80" -
275/70R16, U=2416 mm, 30.28" -
285/75R16, U=2545 mm, 31.89" - 7.5% loss
295/75R16, U=2590 mm, 32.46" - 10% loss
305/70R16, U=2540 mm, 31.83" - 7% loss
305/75R16, U=2681 mm, 33.60" - 13% loss
stock diffs 4.375:1
optional 4.857:1 = 11% gain
optional 5.286:1 = 20% gain
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thebigblue
Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I´m on 285/65-18 and did not change anything, the speedometer is around 10% too low from factory, mine now is a few % below correct speed. Since the odometer is not 10% above from factory, I just know that my figures will be 10% to high, so I subtract 10% from fuel consumption etc.
But it looks like the 4.857 setting will get things back to "normal"
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Balto
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 368
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Just went with a set of 265/70R18 BFG KO2s and am going to take the G into my shop to get the calibration adjusted.
Anyone have tips on what to tell them the settings should be? Thanks |
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kotton
Regular
Date registered: Sep 2014
Location: California, Orange County
Vehicle(s): 2006 G-500
Posts: 84
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Balto - 12/2/2015 7:13 PM
Just went with a set of 265/70R18 BFG KO2s and am going to take the G into my shop to get the calibration adjusted.
Anyone have tips on what to tell them the settings should be? Thanks
I just got the same tire mounted Monday but in 275/70/R18 with no rubbing on a stock G500 BTW for anyone reading this in the future. The way I've read through this thread is the new tire is 33.2" tall compared to the stock size of 30.5". Since 33.2 is 8.14% taller than the stock size I would have to look for some combo in the system close to that, which would either be 4.111 gears(+6.04%) plus 235/75/R17.5 (+2.87%) = 8.91% of total correction. Or not touching the gears and just selecting the 8.25R16C tire option, but im not exactly sure how to read that type of numeric sizing. From using my google fu it looks like its a around a 33" tire but I dont know for sure as some guys on the defender forums claim its a 34" tire.
Balto in your case I would just have your shop choose the 4.111 gears which is a 6.04% increase that matches your 6.16% taller tires pretty well.
Edited by kotton 12/2/2015 3:05 PM
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TD1
Member
Date registered: Apr 2015
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Vehicle(s): 2004 G500 // 97 Disco
Posts: 22
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Kotton- on those tires i rubbed at full right turn lock on the metal right next to the steering box. |
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kotton
Regular
Date registered: Sep 2014
Location: California, Orange County
Vehicle(s): 2006 G-500
Posts: 84
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
TD1 - 12/3/2015 1:52 PM
Kotton- on those tires i rubbed at full right turn lock on the metal right next to the steering box.
Its real close, but I have a good 1/4" to 1/2" of clearance at full lock. Its hard to snap a pic, but this at least shows the pitman arm clearance.
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Balto
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 368
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Thanks man! That's exactly what I needed! |
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kotton
Regular
Date registered: Sep 2014
Location: California, Orange County
Vehicle(s): 2006 G-500
Posts: 84
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Balto - 12/4/2015 1:34 PM
Thanks man! That's exactly what I needed!
I should say thats only if you have the normal 4.375 gears installed, so you should double check that when you go in. |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
When I installed 10% higher profile tires on my g55k soon after I got it I experienced a noticeable difference on how much more lazy the esp had become if I provoked oversteer or understeer on a loose surface.
Most of all, my electronic traction control (ETC) became a lot worse than stock size tires.
When I adjusted the settings at an MB shop everything got a little better, but when later I purchased a star diagnosis system I had my mechanic adjust the settings to the max for the largest possible tires and the transmission module for the largest tire setting possible.
Right away my esp went to almost better mode than stock and so did the ETC which now was working again at full flex and loose traction situations that I needed the lockers before
I am sorry is too many years and I do not remember the numbers on the settings but I do remember if I went to the setting on trasmission module as if running largest possible tire like 35s so the trasmission module was adjusted for the tallest gears possible.
With a diameter of 32.7 inches I do not touch anywhere with the stock amg wheels and 286-65-18s.
I find that size ideal as I get full flex and steering with out the issues of only an additional third of an inch of rubber, and perfect function of electronics with esp and etc
The e load rating revo 2s ride smooth,soft and handle on both pavement and all types of dirt ,rocks,snow ,ice and more with out any flats or balancing issues
Set your speedo for 33s and your transmission module to the highest setting....it worked for me good enough I can slam corners at 75 and esp works fast and perfect as stock
Mario |
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kotton
Regular
Date registered: Sep 2014
Location: California, Orange County
Vehicle(s): 2006 G-500
Posts: 84
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
512bbi - 12/5/2015 3:34 AM
When I installed 10% higher profile tires on my g55k soon after I got it I experienced a noticeable difference on how much more lazy the esp had become if I provoked oversteer or understeer on a loose surface.
Most of all, my electronic traction control (ETC) became a lot worse than stock size tires.
When I adjusted the settings at an MB shop everything got a little better, but when later I purchased a star diagnosis system I had my mechanic adjust the settings to the max for the largest possible tires and the transmission module for the largest tire setting possible.
Right away my esp went to almost better mode than stock and so did the ETC which now was working again at full flex and loose traction situations that I needed the lockers before
I am sorry is too many years and I do not remember the numbers on the settings but I do remember if I went to the setting on trasmission module as if running largest possible tire like 35s so the trasmission module was adjusted for the tallest gears possible.
With a diameter of 32.7 inches I do not touch anywhere with the stock amg wheels and 286-65-18s.
I find that size ideal as I get full flex and steering with out the issues of only an additional third of an inch of rubber, and perfect function of electronics with esp and etc
The e load rating revo 2s ride smooth,soft and handle on both pavement and all types of dirt ,rocks,snow ,ice and more with out any flats or balancing issues
Set your speedo for 33s and your transmission module to the highest setting....it worked for me good enough I can slam corners at 75 and esp works fast and perfect as stock
Mario
Where did you purchase your STAR system from? |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I have to look it up I do not remember their name
It was from England with all the trimmings and it was not cheap
Moderator G AMG gave me his blessing on it since I did not know who is what on this subject and my mechanic had no issues with it.
I would ask him if you want an opinion you can count on
Mario |
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kotton
Regular
Date registered: Sep 2014
Location: California, Orange County
Vehicle(s): 2006 G-500
Posts: 84
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Thanks for the info 512.
Does anyone remember where I need to go in order to change the speedometer settings to a larger tire size? Some threads I dug up in other forums suggest its in the NAV settings on the comand unit, but I'm unsure if that updates the speedometer or just the GPS unit.
I'm taking out the comand soon anyway to install a new head unit, so I assume I'll have to set the speedometer another way anyway. |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I am nor sure since it has been years but I do remember that where the tire sizes where in there to choose from the largest diameter was a metric tire that would equal a 33 inch one,but setting the tire diameter would fix the speedo but will have no effect on the function of the esp and traction control.
The transmission module section that lists different gear settings was the one that effected the function of electronics
I do not know if they connect in function or not but when I changed the tire size only first the speedo worked accurately tested by GPS but that by it self had no effect on the workings of esp, when later we changed the settings on transmission module it all worked fine
Mario |
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8899
Member
Date registered: Jan 2017
Location: Northern Virginia
Vehicle(s): 1994 E500; 2003 W210 4Matic Wagon; 2008 G55
Posts: 14
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I recently exchanged some emails with Darren at Collie regarding tire size options for my 2008 G55. He indicates that adjustment of tire size programming in STAR is not possible as it is "scn" coded and therefore to not change tire size beyond stock. This is unfortunate news since the stock tire size options are slim pickings. Has anyone else with a 2008 G55 been successful in moving to a 31" or 32" tire size??? |
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thebigblue
Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I have moved from stock to 33" (285/65-18) with no issues. I have a 2005 that also don´t have the option to change tire-size in the settings. |
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8899
Member
Date registered: Jan 2017
Location: Northern Virginia
Vehicle(s): 1994 E500; 2003 W210 4Matic Wagon; 2008 G55
Posts: 14
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Just to update....I went ahead and bought a set of the stock G500 wheels (18" x 7.5" ET 43) and instead of mounting the stock tire size (265/60; 30"), I mounted 275/60 (31") Yokohama GEO AT G015 tires. No problems with ESP. First impression is that the tires are great...very quiet considering the AT tread design. I will run them until the spring at which time I will remount the stock G55 wheels and tires. |
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Jesse
Member
Date registered: Aug 2017
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle(s): 2005 G55
Posts: 9
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
I know this thread is quite old, but the information is EXTREMELY helpful. Thank you to all those who contributed to the content. I am posting my experiences here in case it is useful to others.
My vehicle is a 2005 G55 with stock suspension (as far as I know)
I installed BFG AT KO2 265/70-18 tires on OEM G550 18" wheels. There no rubbing issues in normal driving lock to lock. I have done a few days of mild off roading (Class 4 roads in Vermont) and have not had any contact issues there either.
My speedo was off and the truck was not shifting when it should. The most noticeable shifting issue was not downshifting when needed on long steady hills. So, with the help of this thread, I decided to make a few edits to the settings.
My axle ratio was set to 4.111 and tire size was set to 265/60R18. When I compared the tire sizes, I needed to increase the tire size by roughly 10%. Unfortunately, in my 2005 G55, there were only a couple tire options. I decided on the following changes.
In the VG (Transfer Case) section, under Read Coding and Change if Necessary, I set the tire size to 235/85R16 and the Axle Ratio to 4.375. That works out to be almost exactly 10%. I also set the tire size under Special Equipment in the Instrument Cluster section to the same 235/85R16 in order to fix the speedo.
The speedo is now very close. It reads ~1MPH low at 65MPH. The shifting is now much smoother when accelerating and downshifts on the hills where I was manually downshifting in the past is very smooth. Acceleration also feels faster, although that could be mental.
Thanks again for all those who have posted in this thread and especially to Harald and Karl for the screen shots and clarifying details that helped me figure this out.
Thanks,
- Jesse
Edited by Jesse 1/3/2018 4:03 PM
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
happy to hear that it still works |
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KeithG500
Member
Date registered: Oct 2014
Location: Largo FL
Vehicle(s): 2005 G500 Silver
Posts: 25
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Thanks everyone!!!
Keith
Edited by KeithG500 1/15/2018 5:34 PM
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lovenvik
New user
Date registered: Apr 2021
Location: Sweden
Vehicle(s): G350 CDI 2009
Posts: 2
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Hi! is this thread still alive ?
Im pretty new to the coding segment but i have just installed xentry, vadeamo and DTC Monaco to my computer whith a openport 2.0 reader.
Is this changes available in Xentry or do you have to go through the Vadeamo program?
I have a G350cdi 2009 and going to put on some 35x12,5r20 tires and wonder if some one can do the math and help me with the numbers I have to change.
I have so fare done some reading about vadeamo and thing I can get lightly started, but if some one have a dummy sheet or have time to get me started I can easy pay for that knowledge.
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lovenvik
New user
Date registered: Apr 2021
Location: Sweden
Vehicle(s): G350 CDI 2009
Posts: 2
| Re: 463 with larger tires - ESP problems solved
Hi! is this thread still alive ?
Im pretty new to the coding segment but i have just installed xentry, vadeamo and DTC Monaco to my computer whith a openport 2.0 reader.
Is this changes available in Xentry or do you have to go through the Vadeamo program?
I have a G350cdi 2009 and going to put on some 35x12,5r20 tires and wonder if some one can do the math and help me with the numbers I have to change.
I have so fare done some reading about vadeamo and thing I can get lightly started, but if some one have a dummy sheet or have time to get me started I can easy pay for that knowledge.
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