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PointedThree :  Vans, Trucks, SUVs and Other Forums : G-Class : 617A engine swap progress - Part 1

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617A engine swap progress - Part 1
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Posted 11/3/2006 11:40 AM
dai
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
2000
Re: 617A engine swap progress

Well Dave, on my machine the upper hose above the little pump on the Webasto unit goes to the unique plastic valve on the firewall and into the heater. The lower hose comes from the stock connection on the left side of the cylinder head just in front of the oil filter housing. The other hose from the heater core goes into the thermostat plumbing. Mine is a non runner but I think stock and has very clear plumbing in and out of hardlines. Hopefully Warren will chime in here. I think that the upper pipe going through the valve is correct because one of the functions of that valve is to be open before it will allow the Webasto to fire up. Also it makes some sense that the Webasto out goes directly to the heater core first because it is an auxiliary heater primarily for the cabin. My truck lists H12 as one of its option codes and that is supposed to be for the Webasto, so I think all of my plumbing is stock. It looks nice in there, I just can't get it to go. I hope this helps and if you need photos let me know. Seems to me that different plumbing to make it a motor heater first would work.

I use one of those heaters that connects to a propane tank when things get really cold. You don't want your tools freezing to your hands, Dave!

Cheers,

-Dai
#51622 - in reply to #51613
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Posted 11/3/2006 3:17 PM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
Re: 617A engine swap progress

Thanks Dai!

Your description is "in line" with my basic thinking, that the lower pipe is the inlet to the Webasto and the upper pipe is the outlet.  You're right that there are some minor differences in my approach, making the webasto feed the engine first, rather than the cabin.

I don't have a valve that's switched by the Webasto.  I need to remember to leave the heater valve open if the Webasto's going to run.  I see that as a possible source of trouble if the valve is accidentally left closed and the webasto's water pump is sucking against the closed valve.

Hmm.....I do have a Webasto system from a G that a guy from the list gave me way back.  It's a petrol one, but it's an original G one (the one I'm fitting now is a generic Thermotop T) so there may be a water valve in that pile of stuff....I'll have to look.

Maybe I can find some install instructions and components list for a Thermo Top T somewhere....

-Dave G.

#51637 - in reply to #51622
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Posted 11/3/2006 11:16 PM
Warren T
Extreme Veteran


Date registered: May 2006
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): 230GE,300GD,300D
Posts: 519
500
Re: 617A engine swap progress

Thermo top T or C setup
Out from back of engine, through water control valve to inlet of
heat exchanger(lower hose)
Out of exchanger (top hose) to pump (lower conexion) of Webasto.
Out of Webasto (top) to conexion below T-stat.
Mount unit at level of last conexion or below.
This set up sends heated water to engine before cabin heater
which is the proper way for this model as the electronics in the
Webasto will start blower at a given temp. This is to cut down
on useless runing time of the fan (electwity). It is imperative
to have your fan switch ON anytime you fire Webasto, or it will
sense an incomplete circuit and shut down after maybe 30 seconds.
Water valve MUST be open completely. Factory systems had an
electric switch on water valve to prevent operation unless valve
was open.
Webasto recomend instaling dosing pump close to fuel tank but
this is a very dirty, wet inconvenient location, pump rusts and
water gets in plug conexion. On 4 instalations I have instaled
the pump on the fuel return line under hood at about the height
of the injection pump. Return fuel will not go through dosing pump
to Webasto when engine is running and dosing pump will not
draw from injection system as there is a check valve on
injection pump. Outlet of dosing pump should face up at least 15 deg.
Good luck Warren
#51690 - in reply to #51637
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Posted 11/3/2006 11:22 PM
clavos
Veteran




Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Centennial, CO USA
Vehicle(s): 1983 MB 300td, 1986 MB 190E 2.3-16, 1984 MB 300GD
Posts: 145
100
RE: 617A engine swap progress

How bad are these things without the Webasto? I really didn't pay attention to how I removed the stuff as I don't intend to re-install it. It looks like a nightmare but I am fairly certain mine is all factory stuff.
#51691 - in reply to #47649
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Posted 11/5/2006 5:11 AM
roughneck
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
2000
RE: 617A engine swap progress

I have the Webasto installation operation service and parts manual, if you would like them copied and mailed I will be glad to do so.
#51853 - in reply to #47649
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Posted 11/5/2006 6:52 PM
clavos
Veteran




Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Centennial, CO USA
Vehicle(s): 1983 MB 300td, 1986 MB 190E 2.3-16, 1984 MB 300GD
Posts: 145
100
RE: 617A engine swap progress

Roughneck, PM sent. That would be awesome to have those manuals. I did get my G engine out today and am going to order a new clutch assembly tomorrow. I may order a new flywheel as well, depends on the cost.
#51922 - in reply to #47649
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Posted 11/6/2006 11:40 AM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
Driven in anger

Well, the G made the trip ALL THE WAY to work this morning, making it's first meaningful trip since the engine swap.  All seems well so far.  I parked on a nice clean piece of pavement to see if any leaks crop up.

The most remarkable thing was I was able to drive all the way in top gear.  I have at least 3 hills on the way in that used to require 3rd gear with the M110 and the 617A can go up those doing the speed limit (55mph)  in top gear.  Very nice.  I'm glad I have an overdrive trans (iron box 5 speed) coming in addition to the granny-low box.  I don't have a working tach yet, but I know what the revs are for different wheel speeds and I'd like to not flog it over 3000 on the freeway if I can help it.  We'll see.

I need to swing by the muffler shop and have the downpipe from the turbo to the flange near the transfer case done, but that shouldn't be too big a deal.  Then I plan to let Mark have a drive in it to get his opinion on how it's running.  Having zero experience with these things, I'll feel better if an expert gives me an opinion on how it's running.

As far as the block heaters go, wow, that little Webasto is a marvel!  I fired it off yesterday just to see if it was working and within 15 minutes, the temp gauge on the dash was at the top of the white!  It'll be nice to have that around when it starts to get really cold.  I don't know how to make the preset timer light it up though, so I didn't have the Webasto run this morning.  I just set a timer to turn the block heater on for about 3 hours before I was ready to drive.  It didn't show anything appreciable on the temp gauge, but it did crank over pretty easy for as cold as it was.

Gotta figure out that timer on the Webasto.  I could get used to that!

-Dave G.

#52005 - in reply to #47649
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Posted 11/6/2006 11:53 AM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
Webasto stuff

Thanks for confirming that water routing, Warren.  I have mine set up the other way right now (thru heater first), but the way you say would cut down on the number of hoses running around the engine compartment, so I may switch to that way some time.

The setup I have came with a double-throw relay for the fan actuation, so I don't need to leave the fan on.  I have the normally closed contacts of this relay in the circuit from the low-speed contact on the fan switch with a wire running to the relay and then from the relay back to the wire to the fan.  In essence, cut the low speed wire from the switch to the fan and run it through the normally closed relay contacts.  This way, the normally closed relay contacts complete the circuit to the low speed side for normal operation of the fan while driving, but when the Webasto fires, the relay is energized and the normally open contacts close, delivering power to the low speed side of the fan from the relay (instead of from the fan switch).  This way it doesn't matter whether you leave the fan switch in off, low, or high, the Webasto will always run the fan at low speed.

If anyone's interested I can draw and scan a schematic.

-Dave G.

#52006 - in reply to #51690
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Posted 11/6/2006 2:03 PM
Roly
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
Vehicle(s): 1999 G500
Posts: 661
500
RE: Driven in anger

Congratulations on the successful rebuild and in remarkably quick time. Great news
#52023 - in reply to #52005
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Posted 11/6/2006 4:29 PM
roughneck
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
2000
RE: Driven in anger

Great news, when you get the urge swap out the steel oil feeds to oil cooler and turbo into flexi hydraulic, it will avoid heart ache later.



(Oil Line 002.jpg)



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Attachments Oil Line 002.jpg (50KB - 9 downloads)
#52039 - in reply to #52023
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Posted 11/6/2006 4:40 PM
Inkblotz
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
2000
RE: Driven in anger

roughneck

Do you have any pics of the flexi lines in place?

I wonder if you can replace the turbo oil drain line as well with flexi?

Mark
#52040 - in reply to #52039
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Posted 11/6/2006 5:25 PM
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
5000
Time To Start A New Thread

This one is getting too long to be easily comprehensible. I'm going to lock it down and start a new thread for more followups. Here's the link:

http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=4993&mid...

See you there.
#52043 - in reply to #47649
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