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PointedThree :  Vans, Trucks, SUVs and Other Forums : G-Class : 300GD clutch

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300GD clutch
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Posted 1/11/2007 1:53 AM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
Re: 300GD clutch

You'll see when you get it apart, that bit is a little assembly.  A metal cup with rubber bonded to it on the one face and OD, a little metal disk acting like a one-way valve, and a spring to bias that disk closed.  There's nothing inside the MC acting on that part, it just butts against teh bottom (front as installed) surface of the MC bore.

Good luck!

-Dave G.

#59069 - in reply to #59056
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Posted 1/13/2007 5:22 PM
Greg S.
Regular




Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Newfoundland
Vehicle(s): 1985 300GD, 1973 Unimog 416 DOKA
Posts: 51
50
Re: 300GD clutch

Well I got the master out. Not much left to the little seal inside, I posted some pictures in my album for those who are curious. The seal in question was pretty gooey and had several holes.

I ran out of time trying to bleed the system, not enough light and too much wet snow blowing down my neck. I was using my power bleeder from the opening in the fluid reservoir but not having a lot of success. When I got back in the house I had a look at a Haynes manual and it suggests bleeding the master from the slave. I this true? Anyone else know about this? I looked in my shop manuals also but I don't seem to have anything about bleeding the master or slave cylinders. Seems odd to bleed from the bottom up but I will give anything a try, especially if it works!
#59331 - in reply to #59069
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Posted 1/13/2007 5:34 PM
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
5000
Re: 300GD clutch

Greg S. - 1/13/2007 5:22 PM

Well I got the master out. Not much left to the little seal inside, I posted some pictures in my album for those who are curious. The seal in question was pretty gooey and had several holes.



Definitely time for a new one.

I always had a hard time getting the thing properly bled; but once the air is out of the master, you should have an easy time of it.
#59332 - in reply to #59331
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Posted 1/13/2007 6:21 PM
fernweh



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
2000
Re: 300GD clutch

Greg, you might want to check the rubber flex line to the clutch slave cylinder. If it is defective, mayby no external leaks, but it can expand like a balloon and you loose all the hydraulic pressure or enough for the slave cylinder not to disengage the clutch plate.

Just a thought, it happened to me a few years back with an older Benz.

Karl
#59336 - in reply to #59056
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Posted 1/13/2007 6:31 PM
Greg S.
Regular




Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Newfoundland
Vehicle(s): 1985 300GD, 1973 Unimog 416 DOKA
Posts: 51
50
Re: 300GD clutch

DUTCH - 1/13/2007 7:34 PM

Definitely time for a new one.

I always had a hard time getting the thing properly bled; but once the air is out of the master, you should have an easy time of it.


Thanks Dutch. Thought it was just me having problems! Hopefully I will get it done tomorrow when its a balmy -7C.
#59337 - in reply to #59332
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Posted 1/14/2007 2:48 PM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
Re: 300GD clutch

Greg,

I had to back-bleed the clutch on Brad Davis' SWB when he had it.  He was having trouble with the clutch after the car warmed up (quite a few years ago, don't remember specifics).  The best way to do it is with a little Mite-y-Vac unit with the hoses swapped around so it blows instead of sucks.  Also have someone up top if possible to draw fluid out of the reservoir top before it overflows while you're pushing fluid up into it from below.  You can do it a little at a time by yourself, but it's tedious.  Plus, when you're trying to flush air out, it's better to be able to establish and maintain a flow, rather than starts and stops which can allow air bubbles to"slide back" to high points in the system, rather than being carrierd along and out by the fluid flow.

I feel for you man.  The cold makes any job a hundred times worse.  I think insulating my garage and setting up some heat in there is high on my list of summer projects since I don't have much in line for the G (other than transmisison swap).

-Dave G.

#59414 - in reply to #59331
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Posted 1/14/2007 3:34 PM
Greg S.
Regular




Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Newfoundland
Vehicle(s): 1985 300GD, 1973 Unimog 416 DOKA
Posts: 51
50
Re: 300GD clutch

Thanks for the heads up Dave. I got it bled but still no joy. I checked the slave as you suggested and while the front of the slave is a mess, the rod does come out properly and go back in with normal resistance. I'm going to use a long screw driver to actuate the clutch fork manually to see if can't feel more of what may be wrong. As much as I don't want it to be true, I'm thinking the bell housing and tranny got to come out. Another thing I noticed is that my rattling TOB is not making noise anymore, wonder why!!?

One plus about the cold temps is that the foam mats that I use to lie on while working under the truck, slide real nice on the ice and act like a creeper on wheels!

Oh and one other thing, a nice big heated garage would be sooooo nice right about now. I could have a little wood stove in the corner....... a hot tub..... plasma TV.....

Edited by Greg S. 1/14/2007 3:37 PM
#59419 - in reply to #59414
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Posted 1/15/2007 12:22 PM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
Re: 300GD clutch

Bummer dude.   Be careful if you end up trying to pull the tranny from underneath.  Have it strapped to a good floor (trolly) jack.  And do take Fernweh's advice on checking the flex line.  I'm not sure whether I'd rather have to replace the flex line or the trans, but with as tough as that thing is to get at, I'm going to replace mine with a teflon/stainless line when I go in to change the trans next spring.  Heck, I may take the flex line clear over the trans to the slave, or maybe even all the way to the master, just to make things easier.

-Dave G.

#59512 - in reply to #59419
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Posted 1/15/2007 5:57 PM
Greg S.
Regular




Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Newfoundland
Vehicle(s): 1985 300GD, 1973 Unimog 416 DOKA
Posts: 51
50
Re: 300GD clutch

hipine - 1/15/2007 2:22 PM

Bummer dude.   Be careful if you end up trying to pull the tranny from underneath.  Have it strapped to a good floor (trolly) jack.  And do take Fernweh's advice on checking the flex line.  I'm not sure whether I'd rather have to replace the flex line or the trans, but with as tough as that thing is to get at, I'm going to replace mine with a teflon/stainless line when I go in to change the trans next spring.  Heck, I may take the flex line clear over the trans to the slave, or maybe even all the way to the master, just to make things easier.

-Dave G.



As for the tranny coming out the bottom, BTDT. I was taking a transmission and t/c(from a 3/4 chev) out of a Jeep and had it slip from the jack. Luckily, I did a quick deflection and roll out, bit of Judo and Karate training, lol. I'm not 100% sure about if I am going to do the work myself, the damn cold makes things miserable.

I've heard of similar problems on Unimog brake lines whereby the pressure pushes the brake fluid through but the line won't let the fluid back up thus leaving the brakes on. Would it not be similar for the clutch? ie the clutch would be disengaged?

#59570 - in reply to #59512
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Posted 1/16/2007 2:06 PM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
Re: 300GD clutch

.... I've heard of similar problems on Unimog brake lines whereby the pressure pushes the brake fluid through but the line won't let the fluid back up thus leaving the brakes on. Would it not be similar for the clutch? ie the clutch would be disengaged?

Not quite the same.

The thing Karl describes is that the line just plain expands under fluid pressure - meaning the force to expand the line is less than the force to actuate the TOB, so the line expands instead of TOB moving.

What you're describing happened to my sister's xk140 Jag.  The inner lining separates from the reinforcing braid of the the tubing and then wads up inside the tube so the force of the MC is enough to push fluid past the obstruction, but the spring force of the clutch isn't enough to push fluid BACK past the obstruction.

Slightly different things.  To check the one Karl talks about, all you have to do is eyeball the flex line from the outside while someone works the clutch pedal with the rest of the system is in place as normal.  The MC displaces about 2 tbsp of fluid to move the clutch, so if that volume is being taken in the hose, you'll see it expand.

Good luck buddy,

-Dave G.

#59667 - in reply to #59570
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