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pistonhead
Member
Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: Loughborough, ENGLAND, UK
Vehicle(s): Nissan QX.
Posts: 22
| G350D
Would someone contribute to a query I have about the G350's.
I have heard that the 350D are not reliable engines and are prone to blowing.
I would like to know of the reputations of the 350D and 350TD. What weakness they were if any, have these weaknesses been resolved?
Eventually leading up to, should one steer clear of these engines, or buy with caution etc..
Given the opportunity of buying one cheap, already with a blown engine or one having had lots of work on it, can one fit alternatives, i.e. a 300D perhaps M601 or M602 engines? |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: G350D
I would argue that the OM617 series is the way to go. The turbo 617.95 in particular will last, has mechanical injection and no electrics except for the glow system. It has an all cast iron construction, block and head. It can run alternative fuels and is one of the most reliable diesel motors Mercedes has ever made. If it is going in a 460 or 461 it is a good match with the VG80 transfer case.
-Dai |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: G350D
Rakesh,
since you are starting off with a 463, you should look into replacing with some engine from that series (to make mating with transmissions easier)
http://www.4x4abc.com/G-Class/production.html |
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Brent
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
| RE: G350D
You can do a search on the web to find more specific info on that engine. They were fairly rare in the G, so try a search regarding the S-class sedans they were installed in.
What I read some time back, was that indeed this was not MB's best effort. The engines are not generally considered very reliable. There are cylinder head and cooling system updates but it is my beleif that the design itself is flawed.
The updates are very expensive and I am not convinced they are that effective in the long term. For that reason I personally would never consider that engine in any vehicle. |
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G350DT
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: G350D
Beings that I have one. If the engine has had a new head then it should be ok. If it is over 100K miles then it should be ok.
Do not over heat it and change the glow plugs |
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Brent
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
| Re: G350D
G350DT - 5/27/2007 7:04 PM
Beings that I have one. If the engine has had a new head then it should be ok. If it is over 100K miles then it should be ok.
Do not over heat it and change the glow plugs
I am trying REALLY hard not to offend here so please to not take this personally.
Just because you have one doesn't really qualify you to say that it "should" be OK with those new parts. What evidence do you have that this is the case? All that I have read, and it has admittedly been a while (but I may have to revisit the issue) states that the 350 engine is inherently designed wrong. The bore/stroke ratio is off, the cylinders become out of round and the rings no longer seal, the head is prone to warping. I'm am very skeptical of the notion that major design flaws are cured with the new head. That doesn't address what appears to be the problem, it is more of a band aid. I am at a complete loss as to how changing the glow plugs makes any difference in the equation. I know you WANT it to be a good, reliable engine, but the overwhelming evidence is that it is not a good choice. |
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roughneck
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
| RE: G350D
Rocky, I have been looking into the purchase of such a model as an alternative to the 463 300TDI because they are so much cheaper, I have repeatedly been told the following, they are very prone to blowing the head gasket catastropicaly, however if they have had the work done by a competent shop and in particular a MB dealer they are then bomb proof, if you are lucky enough to find one with a factory warranty exchange engine even better, with your talents I would have thought a rebuild and installation of your own would be spot on the money old mate.
That 300GD is running as sweet as after your little tip. pint I owe. next time Im in Shepshed. |
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clubgwagen.com
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: gwagenpreserve.com
Vehicle(s): 300GE Cabriolet
Posts: 736
| Re: G350D
Brent is right. These things are known rod benders! They have to run too hard to push the heavy G chassis anyways. Best to swap out for the W-210 diesel available in the e-class from 1995 on.
You can get one from metrics brand new for $7k, or find a crashed e-class.
if you want to step it up a notch, get a crashed sprinter, but that will require using the sprinter tranny, which obviously makes the swap more difficult.
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G350DT
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: G350D
Mine was blown when I got it. Yes owning one does not mean I know a lot about it.
Having one redone is different though.
I used Noels in FL to do mine.
He was an engineer with MB so I think he knows something.
The fix I have is new con rods and new head on top of a lot to cleaning up and all.
I think that if he did not trust his fix he would not offer a 5 year warranty
He told me that out of the thousands that he has done over the years, 3 have come back. |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: G350D
G350DT - 5/30/2007 2:09 AM
Mine was blown when I got it. Yes owning one does not mean I know a lot about it.
Having one redone is different though.
I used Noels in FL to do mine.
He was an engineer with MB so I think he knows something.
The fix I have is new con rods and new head on top of a lot to cleaning up and all.
I think that if he did not trust his fix he would not offer a 5 year warranty
He told me that out of the thousands that he has done over the years, 3 have come back.
From what I have read & heard, a properly rebuilt 3.5L is quite reliable. The problem as a buyer is determining (from the outside) what has been repaired/upgraded. |
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pistonhead
Member
Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: Loughborough, ENGLAND, UK
Vehicle(s): Nissan QX.
Posts: 22
| Re: G350D
Thank you all so much for your input. I do appreciate this. For me the jury is still out
Edited by pistonhead 5/31/2007 6:11 PM
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Maxwell Smart
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: G350D
Rakeesh,
To me this seems a no brainer considering who you are. Surely you personally have the know how to either
a) fix/upgrade the 350 engine which to my understanding is very reliable once you sort out the cooling issues.
b) failing that replace the engine with a 300TD out of a sedan....
You're getting an otherwise perfect body at an excellent price that looks nice and is fully spec'd. A used engine is relatively cheap....
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G350DT
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: G350D
The cooling issues are fixed with the new heads and I run the Evans as an added bonus.
The reasons the heads warp and blow gaskets are
uneven cooling of the head, the new heads and the added benefit of Evans fixes that
Also I was advised that at 80K miles re torque the head bolts they tend to stretch a bit over time |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: G350D
G350DT - 5/31/2007 5:39 PM
...Also I was advised that at 80K miles re torque the head bolts they tend to stretch a bit over time
Unless you can find this instruction in a factory manual, don't do it. MB has been using special head bolts for some time now. They are installed with a very specific tightening pattern and torque. The final twists stretch the bolt a precisely specified amount. This is partly to offset the need to re-tighten the bolts later. If you try to tighten the bolts even a small amount you are very likely to have two piece head bolts. |
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Jonathan Joseph
Expert
Date registered: Oct 2006
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
Vehicle(s): 2004 G55
Posts: 1538
| RE: G350D
I'm always amazed at peoples willingness to apply knowledge learned in a specific application to any and all applications.
"My mechanic told me to gap my points every XXXX miles" Yeah but my car doesn't have points.
I used to work with an old mechanic who torqued head bolts on every car he ever worked on with an impact wrench, no torque wrench. Did I mention he only worked on old American engines. It had worked for him for like 30 years, till he tried it on the Maserati....As much as I like to make fun of them there is a reason that engineers design things and write specifications for them. Not everything is built the same.
Jonathan |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: G350D
Some motors require a retorque and some don't. The All Cast Iron Mercedes diesel motors do not. They are brought up to final torque in three stages and that is it. Very special head gasket and very special head bolts keep it together. Alloy heads move around a lot because of the expansion and contraction of the metal that is at a different rate than the cast iron thing it is bolted to. I have no idea if they need a retorque over time but I would only do it if it is specified as a service interval in the factory service manual. I think most modern motors, even alloy head to cast iron block motors do not have to be retorqued.
An all cast iron motor will withstand an overheat situation much better than an alloy head motor. The alloy heads tend to warp and require replacement. This can happen with something as simple as the loss of a fanbelt.
-Dai
Edited by dai 6/1/2007 2:00 AM
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