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ewalberg
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
| Bad CV boot.... Grease question, how, where, when, why...
So is the CV boot grease common to other mercedes models? or can i use any CV grease? anybody got a part number? I'm trying to locate some CV grease today. A couple packets of mercedes stuff as i recall... which bring me to my next question... Since the boot had a small rip at the small diameter side and i don't figure i got too much Swivel grease into my CV so can i just top it off or do i need to go through some kind of cleaning procedure to get all the old stuff out... if so how do i do that? Is it safe to say as long as there's a fair amount of grease in there, there's no need to over fill?
One more question... i've got all new clips for the boot... the're like a metal zip tie, but i wonder if i shouldn't re-use the old clips becuase they're in good shape and have a nice crease in the clip to indicate i've got it back to original tension... I'm nervous i can't get the new ones on as tight since they're totally flat and i'm guessing a special tool helps you get the proper tension on them
Good news was that there was still plenty of crease inside the boot because the tear was at the narrowest point... but it did turn all my swivel grease black.
Thanks ahead of time...
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G-AMG
G-Class DIY Host
Date registered: May 2006
Location: South Texas
Vehicle(s): '04 G55, '80 280GE, '99 S420, '98 E320, 2011 E350
| RE: Bad CV boot.... Grease question, how, where, when, why...
When I did my left front, I went the "expensive" route.
I used the Redline CV grease on EVERYTHING, CV joints, Bearings, AND Swivel Housing, the whole taco.
The Redline CV grease is a great High Pressure, High Impact, High Temperature, Water Resistant Grease, perfect for the above applications.
Yes, it is a "waste" to place such expensive grease in the swivel housing, but, to me it is worth every penny to know IF my CV boot breaks next time, it will be nice grease mixing with nice grease. True, I will not "know" if the boot breaks, but does it really matter??
That was my thinking on the matter. |
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ewalberg
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
| Re: Bad CV boot.... Grease question, how, where, when, why...
For better or worse, it's the redline cv-2 that i use in my swivels so at this point probably the only reason to stick with stock grease is so that i don't have to do anything elaborate to purge the old stuff before putting in a different grease... I'm guessing it's not ideal to stuff 2 kinds of grease in there.
I've got the CV/axle still held in the bare steering knuckle, with everything else stripped off, it seems like it'd be pretty easy to just stretch the new boot back on and just top it off, and re-fit the old clips since they've only been re-used once... I'm trying to avoid pulling the axle from the knuckle... |
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CaptnPete
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Bad CV boot.... Grease question, how, where, when, why...
I have a question here guys. Is it possible to replace the axle boot without having to pull out the bearing? The reason I am asking is that I watched a mechanic rebuilding my front axle and he had to go through all kind of contortions to get the bearing pre-stressed or whatever he called it. Something I would not dare to get into. |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Bad CV boot.... Grease question, how, where, when, why...
Captn,
It is possible to pull the whole swivelball casting off without disturbing the bearing preload. You pull the top and bottom kingpin caps and the swipe seal retainer and pull the whole shooting match out of there. Heavy and awkward but it is possible.
The method to do the final bearing preload that Warren T from Canada told us how to do is easy and accurate. If you go through the book method with dial indicators, awareness of moon cycles and insane torque settings, will make anyone want to avoid touching them. There is an easier way that works.
-Dai |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Bad CV boot.... Grease question, how, where, when, why...
Eric, Redline C/V grease is supposed to be compatible with other grease. It is a C/V red moly synthetic. I would say that the probability is high that it might just be OK with what is in there. My logic for using the Redline grease in the bearing/swivelball housing was that if something goes south in there the grease will keep the C/V and bearings alive. C/V grease is a hi-Moly grease. Not compatible with Lithium soap based grease. You could also top off the grease in the boot with Molycote or some other Hi Moly grease.
-Dai
Edited by dai 6/28/2007 11:35 PM
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ArnoldRoss
Veteran
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: South Africa (East London)
Vehicle(s): 1982 280GE SWB and 1982 300GD 3 Door LWB
Posts: 117
| Re: Bad CV boot.... Grease question, how, where, when, why...
Dai
The method that Warren T told you about... Was it on this forum? Can you maybe give a more or less indication of when it was?
Arnold |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Bad CV boot.... Grease question, how, where, when, why...
Arnold, I will look for the post but you might try searching around for Warren T posts related to wheelbearings.
The best way to decribe it is to first explain the way I adjust the Mercedes Sedan front bearings. You leave the bearing cap off and mount the wheel leaving it off the ground. The sedan bearings have an adjuster nut with a washer behind it and a split in the nut itself with an allen head locknut that squeezes the adjuster tight. I overtighten the nut to seat the bearing (not a lot of load, just too tight) and back it off to get freeplay that you feel by grabbing the top and bottom of the wheel/tire. There is a clear click and movement that you can feel in your hands. Slightly tighten the adjusting nut until there is just no detectabe freeplay. I spin the wheel to different positions and twist top and bottom, adjusting until I hit that tight enough spot just dialing out any detectable freeplay but no tighter. I tighten the pinchbolt and it is there. Further checking is just a matter of lifting the wheel and doing the check for freeplay. If there is any I adjust it out.
The G can be done with the same method according to Warren. You leave the center cap off the wheel and the cap off the hub so you have access to the nuts. The problem with the G is that the outer locknut loads the inner locknut so you have to back off the inner nut to compensate for the sideloading. You follow the book by putting a lot of tension on the bearing to seat it an then back off the adjustment. The book wants a slight freeplay. All of the folks who have been around the trucks say leave no freeplay. The method I described above can be used to find the magic spot where you just loose freeplay but don't preloade the bearings too much. It is easy to find with the wheel on because you can feel a thousandth freelpay and you just make very small incremental adjustments to get that freeplay dialed out. I hope this decription makes sense. It is not necessary to use the tremendous torque listed in the book. That is hard on the threads of the spindle, the nut threads and the special tool. Use the same torque setting on each of the locknuts and when you have final adjustment bend the tab on the locking washer. |
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ewalberg
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
| Re: Bad CV boot.... Grease question, how, where, when, why...
on the wheel bearing tension, make sure you don't mistake rotor play (as held in by it's one bolt if you have it mounted) with bearing play.
On the boot. I just finished installing my boot and i got it over the end of the axle without damaging it, but wow was it a trick to do it. lubbed up the inside and then opened it up by putting consecutively larger socket drivers through it... The biggest issue i couldn't figure out how to resolve is how to get the little clamps as tight as before. I couldn't get them back into their original position so i feel like the boot isn't held very tight, but it's on the pretty tight on it's own as is... It's a little funkier doing it with the knuckly still on there, but frankly without some fancy tool to get the clamps really tight, it doesn't make that much different if the knuckle is there or not.
Also, dai, how are lithium soap and moly not compatible... reason i ask is becuase i i used some amsoil heavy duty lithium soap for my king pins...
Edited by ewalberg 6/29/2007 7:41 PM
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: Bad CV boot.... Grease question, how, where, when, why...
Google knows:
http://www.mindconnection.com/library/handyman/greasecompat.htm
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=grease+compatibility&btnG=Goog... |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Wheel bearing adjustment
Eric, no worries about the difference in grease for the kingpin bearings. They are really seperate from the rest of the swivelball grease. There are little metal cups below the bearing that keep that area independent from the swivelball grease reservoir.
The Warren T method for adjusting the wheelbearing with a wheel mounted will keep the rotor tight. The advantage of this method is that there is no mistaking bearing play. As I said before it is easy to detect the one thousandth play the book recommends by pressing and pulling on top and bottom of the wheel. Obvious play and not good for the G bearings. Very small adjustments to the inner nut, then torqueing the outer nut and then checking for play will get to the no play preload that will make the bearings live the longest. I can't believe how much time I devoted to doing the adjustments with a dial indicator and tedious trial and mostly error until I arrived at the final result. When I read Warren's method I realized I could just do the job like I've been doing other front wheel bearing adjustment for a long time. I was so intent on following the service manual I couldn't see the obvious! Jeez.
-Dai
Edited by dai 6/29/2007 9:11 PM
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460332
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Europe
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Bad CV boot.... Grease question, how, where, when, why...
Here's the link, just remember to turn the wheel several times while tightening,
don't think that was mentioned?
Read it all through to get all tips!
http://69.9.37.142/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=4268&start=1
Good one, didn't se the list Warren...
http://69.9.37.142/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=6012
Edited by 460332 6/30/2007 8:28 PM
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Jonathan Joseph
Expert
Date registered: Oct 2006
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
Vehicle(s): 2004 G55
Posts: 1538
| RE: Bad CV boot.... Grease question, how, where, when, why...
When I was a mechanic this was how we adjusted all bearings. Tighten nut down good to set bearing in race, back off till there is discernable freeplay. Tighten til all freeplay is removed, but just then not a 64th of a turn more. If there is a locknut you need to tighten all down then check again. Doing this several times until you get it right is a good way to learn the differance between play and no play. That may sound stupid but if you are observant and patient you will get the feel for the perfect spot. Doesn't hurt to lower car off of the jack/lift and drive and check again. Always be sure that you are not mistaking ball joint/king pin/tie rod play with bearing play.
Wiggling wheel top and bottom will show ball joint/king pin play more. Side to side will show tie rod play more.(Or rack and pinion or steering box) If you have three hands you can put the third one on the ball joints of the tie rod or the king pin to feel for play there. If there is wear in these other parts it will be more difficult to determine the correct bearing load by "feel"
Jonathan
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ArnoldRoss
Veteran
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: South Africa (East London)
Vehicle(s): 1982 280GE SWB and 1982 300GD 3 Door LWB
Posts: 117
| Re: Bad CV boot.... Grease question, how, where, when, why...
Thanks guys! This is good stuff. I've always wondered about that bit about tightening the first nut to 200nm to "seat" it. To me it sounded extreme.
This definitively makes things easier. I've taken bearing caps out that was worn in one place and I'm sure that my "play" might have been to much! I feel more comfortable with something that is seated properly.
Arnold |
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