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300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

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Posted 6/17/2009 5:53 PM

hipine

Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000

RE: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

bram_r - 6/17/2009 1:46 AM

...About clearance; I've seen G's with this extended fuel filler and swing out tire carrier. I'll be mounting my swing out carrier soon and will see soon enough myself :). Otherwise I might modify it to make it fit, or remove the extended filler....

Please do send a pic when you can. If it clears those 255's it'll clear my 235 easy. Right now I have to open the carrier to add fuel, even at the filling station, becuase the nozzle won't go in past the larger tire (or at least it's too fiddly for my taste so I open the carrier). So an extended filler would help meon every fill up, not just the ones pouring from cans.

Of course I'd have to find a way to adapt it to the right side saddle tank that my truck has. That might be tricky. Not sure I could angle the saddle tank into place from below if it had that crooked neck on it. But you know what they say, "where there's a will, there's a way!" I do have a spare right side saddle tank that I could play around with to come up with a custom system that would probably work.

Anyhoo...do send a pic of it interacting with the swing out carrier and big tire. Very nice project you have there.

-Dave G.

#152572 - in reply to #152555

Author

Posted 7/11/2009 6:01 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

hipine - 6/17/2009 11:53 PM

Anyhoo...do send a pic of it interacting with the swing out carrier and big tire. Very nice project you have there.

-Dave G.

Hi Dave,

Some delay in the spare tire carrier, powder coating company is having technical difficulties coating my carrier construction.
Anyway, I have extended the swing out construction a little around the upper and lower hinger.
Now the carrier has a little bigger radius when swinging out, and clears/swings around my fuel filler.
Depending on your tire size you can still open the left door without swinging out the tire carrier.
With my 255/85 R16 I do have to btw.

In the meantime removed my 4sp. manual tranny. See pics for both 4 and 5 speed trannies.
Now ordering parts (clutch, pressure plate, thrust bearing) and have to do some other work on the 711-113 (breather, speedo-drive) before starting to bolt it back again.
I did remove the original tranny with engine in car, but next time I would give it some could consideration if it's not better to pull engine and tranny as a whole and then remove tranny from engine.

Some details of the trannies below, if anyone got a question about them, let me know.

Bram

Edited by bram_r 7/11/2009 6:12 PM

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#153618 - in reply to #152572

Author

Posted 7/11/2009 10:01 PM

hipine

Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000

RE: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

Thanks for the info, Bram, and the trans pix. Brings back lots of memories!

One thing to note. For me at least, that bracket on the shifter side of the trans, in the top bolt hole where a slave cylinder would go on the opposite side from where it is (does that make sense?), was too hard to fit once everything was in the truck. I ended up leaving my clutch slave line slack there with no bracket. Been fine thus far, but I'd like to have a better way to do it. The tricky bit is that its another hard line that comes down the bulkhead to that point, and all the fittings are a PITA to get at. I ended up leaving all the clutch plumbing, including the slave, in the truck when I pulled the motor and trans to change the transmission. You may not remember, but due to delays in getting the trans, I first did my TD swap with a 300GD 4-speed trans and then 6 months later pulled the motor again to swap to the 5 speed trans. And yes, I too think it's easier to pull the motor with the trans and do the swap outside than to try and do it under the truck. Brent did it your way when he worked on the trans in his 280GE, I think. But for me, with the limited anciliary gear on the diesel, it was easier to pull the motor.

Good luck with the rest of the work!

-Dave G.

#153630 - in reply to #153618

Author

Posted 7/12/2009 11:38 PM

clavos
Veteran

Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Centennial, CO USA
Vehicle(s): 1983 MB 300td, 1986 MB 190E 2.3-16, 1984 MB 300GD
Posts: 145
100

Re: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

I pulled the engine and left the trans in the truck when I did the swap. The clutch slipped when I put the engine back in and I had to give the hoist back to its owner. I pulled the trans from under the truck to re-align the clutch disc. Of course I broke the slave line when I tried to re-install the trans. I plan to try again tomorrow on installing the trans but really wish I had pulled them as a unit. Live and learn. I will feel good about having a new slave line though. The rubber portion looked pretty bad on the old one.

#153678 - in reply to #108392

Author

Posted 9/5/2009 5:46 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

Some other project are on hold at the moment, so I thought it was time to start with the Kastenwagen's rusty rear.
Today removed some parts like taillights, fuel filler, diesel tank and started cutting. As expected, lot of rust, but the 'main structure' seems in good shape.
I already have all the MB repair sections laying around. Am thinking about buying a mobile spot welder to weld all section back, all use MiG plug welds...

Bram

(rustoration.JPG)

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#156706 - in reply to #108392

Author

Posted 9/5/2009 6:00 PM

Offroad World

Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):

RE: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

hi .

have had it similar with my old yellow cabrio . at first i started to cut a little and in the end all the rust . it was not so much work as i have thought before , good metal spare parts from MB fit easily . often there is not so much rust behind .
doing that work at a cabrio is much easier .

mfg. guido .

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#156707 - in reply to #156706

Author

Posted 9/6/2009 5:12 AM

Initium
Veteran

Date registered: Dec 2007
Location: Oslo, Norway
Vehicle(s): 300 GD LWB
Posts: 195
100

RE: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

can anyone explain how welding normally is done when changing rear corners etc.

Is " welding in a hole " best method, or can ut be welded sufficient from inside the car ?

I do not have a lot of experiance with welding thin car metal sheets, but i have a brand new weldmachine, waiting to be put into action...

Initium

#156726 - in reply to #108392

Author

Posted 9/10/2009 5:18 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

hi guido,

Some nice work you've done on your cabrio there.
Short question. I've ordered part number 56 in the EPC print (pn. is A 460 647 01 22). See picture as well.
Where does it need to be installed? Name says it's a 'Verbindung', connection.

@ Initium:
Mercedes uses spotwelding for almost all sheet metal parts. When using a MiG welder, you can make plug welds. Drill a hole in one the flanges of the two parts you're going to weld. Clamp the two flanges, and plug-weld the hole. Bottom of the hole is of course the flange of the other part.

I'm seeing if I can buy a spot welder myself, or maybe only tag weld some components to each other (and some plug welds) and then take the G to a body shop and let them make all the spot welds they have access to.

Bram

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#157002 - in reply to #108392

Author

Posted 9/10/2009 5:33 PM

Wout
Veteran

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Belgium
Vehicle(s): Mercedes 280GE 1979/230G 1980/ C220CDI/A170CDI/
Posts: 145
100

RE: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

Bram.
I did the same repairs for a few years ago on my 280 GE.
In the picture you can see how the part you mentioned
is welded in the construction.
Wkr
Wout

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#157005 - in reply to #108392

Author

Posted 9/10/2009 5:37 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

Re: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

hey thanks Wout,

I think that part was complete rusted away so I had no evidence where it belonged.

thanks again,

bram

#157006 - in reply to #108392

Author

Posted 9/11/2009 1:35 AM

elevatorbernie
Expert

Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Vehicle(s): 1989 280GE
Posts: 1347
1000

Re: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

bram, maybe something like this.... http://www.kmstools.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2200...

#157032 - in reply to #157006

Author

Posted 9/11/2009 7:55 AM

Inkblotz
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
2000

Re: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

Bram

I would go with something like this: http://www.eastwood.com/metal-fabrication/welding/spot-weld-gun-w-2...

Mark

#157040 - in reply to #108392

Author

Posted 9/11/2009 1:53 PM

hipine

Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000

Re: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

And of course joining the panels is just the begining. The REAL challenge is in how to treat and seal the faces that are now sandwiched together and ripe for rusting exactly where your weld (whatever type) has just occurred. Nothing worse than spending much time and effort to "do it right" with full panel replacement, only to see the paint bubbling in the seams in a couple years. I wish we could do a post-assembly dipping like new car manufacturers do so protective coatings could work their ways into all those crevices. The place where the rust is starting is right at the weld, the toughest place to get at, and impossible to verify.

If I was doing a frame-off restoration of a G I'd find a place to do a dip strip and re-coat of the dog house. There are some such services available here in the USA, but I'm not sure if their tanks are G-sized.

-Dave G.

#157057 - in reply to #157006

Author

Posted 9/11/2009 7:10 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

Re: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

Hi Dave,

You're right that the spot-weld sandwich layers are perfect spots to have rust started.

the way a G is (originally) preserved is as far as I can see:
- some kind of rubber-coating in wheel-arches and underside. Really thick layers in corners, still quite elastic after all these years.
- hollow compartments treated with tectyl.

The way rust problems occur around the rear sections of the G is especially dirt and debris from rear wheels piling up on the taillight section. Dirt will become moist, and perfect rust environment created.
Same counts for blocked drain holes.

I think if you maintain your G a bit, and clean these spots out, and check drain holes every once in a while, this rust repair will last quite a long time.

If funds and time are more plentiful in the future somewhere, I might have the body chemically stripped for paint, do some more repairs if necessary and then have it coated in some sturdy stuff.

Hope to show some more pics of my repairs soon.

Bram

#157091 - in reply to #108392

Author

Posted 9/20/2009 5:59 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

Last week I came across an ad of a (very rusty) 300TD with an om617a in it.
Upon inspection it indeed was rusted very bad, but the engine sounded good. It was standing there for over 4 months and took some tries to get it running. Seller only had some old and small batteries, but after I put my 280GE next to it using starting cables it fired almost directly.
During cranking I saw the oil pressure gauge already going to max. of 3 bars and that's where it stayed while the engine was running.
Also crankcase pressure wasn't excessive, put the oil filler plug loose on the filler hole, and no sign of the pressure trying to lift it or blow it off. Only a little oil fume coming out of the valve cover. No blue or black exhaust gasses as well. So bought it, put it on the trailer and drove it home.

So a little sooner as planned, I've got an om617a now in my hands waiting to be put in the 300GD. Can put the 711.113 tranny directly behind it, which saves me some work

Bram

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#157489 - in reply to #108392

Author

Posted 5/9/2010 7:43 AM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

I haven't done much about the Kastenwagen last months.
I did buy a PTO transfer case last week however. I'm thinking about installing a nice hydraulic system with a winch at a later moment. Happy with this PTO case for now!

Bram

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#171229 - in reply to #108392

Author

Posted 5/9/2010 11:34 AM

NOPEC
Extreme Veteran

Date registered: Feb 2008
Location: Babylon, Long Island, NY
Vehicle(s): 1985 Mercedes 300GD
Posts: 374
300

Re: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

Bram, if you install a hydraulic winch please post your progres.
-Tom

#171242 - in reply to #157489

Author

Posted 5/12/2010 2:21 PM

Doug Nel
Veteran

Date registered: May 2006
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Vehicle(s): 1982 280GE 5 door automatic
Posts: 258
100

RE: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

Hi Bram. I have the same crack around my drivers door hinge. How did you eventaully get this repaired?

#171444 - in reply to #108392

Author

Posted 5/13/2010 4:40 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

Doug Nel - 5/12/2010 8:21 PM

Hi Bram. I have the same crack around my drivers door hinge. How did you eventaully get this repaired?

For now I grinded everything down to bare metal and welded the crack.

Check if you have the correct door hinges mounted. As these have changed at some time.
Wrong hinge with wrong door means the top of the bolts come in contact, and put stress on the body panel.
Eventually leading to this crack.

Bram

#171535 - in reply to #171444

Author

Posted 10/17/2010 7:13 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: 300GD Kastenwagen, shouldn't do it, but...

finally some work done again, progress ever so slowly...

Installed new clutch and pressure plate, see pics.
Made myself a centering-tool on a lathe for mounting the clutch, worked ok!
Bolted down the pressure plate bolts with 20Nm each and slipped on the tranny.
A gasket went between engine and tranny.
Hopefully next couple of weeks I can install this drivetrain back in the G again and see if it can be road worthy around christmas.

Some pics: