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PTO (Power take off)

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Posted 8/17/2013 1:56 AM

raicar
Veteran

Date registered: May 2006
Location: Augusta Vindelicorum, Bavaria
Vehicle(s): G 230 2,6 L Väth, Wolf 250 TD, G 350 BM9, SERVAL
Posts: 186
100

Re: PTO (Power take off)

Thank you for the flowers Bram!

The OEM cabin was bent on the passenger side. By occasion I got to know a guy, who had this military cabin in his barn in the styrian countryside. He wanted to have mine in exchange - deal done - no money involved. The military cabin has a fold down windscreen and the lowest rollbar. Because of the lower roof line I can enter German DIN garages.

raicar

Edited by raicar 8/17/2013 2:20 AM

#216449 - in reply to #216438

Author

Posted 8/17/2013 8:50 AM

Balto
Extreme Veteran

Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 368
300

Re: PTO (Power take off)

What year are your trucks? They look great!

#216459 - in reply to #135117

Author

Posted 8/18/2013 2:34 AM

raicar
Veteran

Date registered: May 2006
Location: Augusta Vindelicorum, Bavaria
Vehicle(s): G 230 2,6 L Väth, Wolf 250 TD, G 350 BM9, SERVAL
Posts: 186
100

Re: PTO (Power take off)

Hi Jerrod - thank you.

Those 2 G's were built 90-91. The years when MB still didn't have the penny pinching attitude: Good Quality, no electronics, mechanical IP, reliable pre combustion chamber Diesel engines, nearly no rust until today ...

raicar

Edited by raicar 8/18/2013 3:34 AM

#216472 - in reply to #216459

Author

Posted 4/5/2014 4:44 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: PTO (Power take off)

Today I started to continue to work on the Kasten and thought to do some pre-fitting on the PTO winch.

Basicly it has a prop-shaft coming from the PTO flange to the front of the car.
Somewhere in the middle there's a u-joint with an attachment bracket. I haven't figured out yet where that bracket should bolt to.

When it come to positioning the winch; basicly the prop-shaft determines where it needs to be.
With the radiator limiting the available space for the prop-shaft to pass (shaft needs to pass under the radiator), I will need to cut out a section in the bumper, so the input shaft of the winch is about the same height as the PTO-flange.

Hopefully Raicar came chime in on this one, and show some additional details on where that PTO shaft exactly runs and where the bracket bolts to.

I will buy a spare bumper to do some trial fitting, need to design some brackets, have some stuff lasercut, hopefully the end result will be satifying.

gr. Bram

PTO shaft running from transfer case to the front bumper:

]

PTO shaft mouting bracket:

]

Connection of PTO shaft into winch:

]

Winch postioned on bumper, needs to lower quite a bit to get the PTO shaft connected which needs to run under the radiator:

]

PTO shaft passing radiator, tight space!

]

With fairlead on the winch:

]

#221132 - in reply to #135117

Author

Posted 4/6/2014 4:30 AM

raicar
Veteran

Date registered: May 2006
Location: Augusta Vindelicorum, Bavaria
Vehicle(s): G 230 2,6 L Väth, Wolf 250 TD, G 350 BM9, SERVAL
Posts: 186
100

RE: PTO (Power take off)

Hi Bram,

this is all I have. Had to scale those pictures down quite a bit, thus they might not be very helpful:(,

raicar

(Winde mit Nebenatrieb zur Winde OM617 STT frontal.jpg)

(Winde mit Nebenatrieb zur Winde OM617 STT original Stoßstange.jpg)

(Winde mit Nebenatrieb zur Winde OM617 STT seitlich II.jpg)

(Winde mit Nebenatrieb zur Winde OM617 STT.jpg)

(SUPERWINCH PTO driven.jpg)

(Welle vom Nebenatrieb zur Winde OM603D35A.jpg)

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Winde mit Nebenatrieb zur Winde OM617 STT frontal.jpg (173KB - 1 downloads)
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Winde mit Nebenatrieb zur Winde OM617 STT original Stoßstange.jpg (278KB - 1 downloads)
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Winde mit Nebenatrieb zur Winde OM617 STT seitlich II.jpg (347KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments

Winde mit Nebenatrieb zur Winde OM617 STT.jpg (320KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments

SUPERWINCH PTO driven.jpg (142KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments

Welle vom Nebenatrieb zur Winde OM603D35A.jpg (243KB - 1 downloads)

#221152 - in reply to #135117

Author

Posted 4/6/2014 4:57 AM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: PTO (Power take off)

Thanks for your quick reply Raicar!

Some clues I already picked up from you pics:

The mounting bracket at the middle u-jount is oriented to the side (frame rail). Curious to where it bolts to, will have a look at it today. Maybe you can have a look at this some day as well? I can't remember there being a factory bracket on that position.
I can already see it runs pretty close to the frame anyway.

]

The PTO shaft runs next to the rubber dampers on which the radiator stands.
That also determines the 'height' position of the winch.

]

Thanks a lot again!

I think I can pick up a spare bumper today.

gr. Bram

#221153 - in reply to #135117

Author

Posted 4/6/2014 6:55 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: PTO (Power take off)

Hmm could it be that your radiator is slightly lifted to create some more room to let the PTO shaft pass the radiator mounts?
Does your G have a bodylift or a lifted radiator that you would know?

See pic below; it will be hard for the PTO shaft to pass over that large front frame tube and then under the radiator.
The radiator shown is I think the m110/280GE radiator, probably much alike the 300GD one.

]

Thanks!

Bram

#221170 - in reply to #135117

Author

Posted 4/8/2014 8:51 AM

raicar
Veteran

Date registered: May 2006
Location: Augusta Vindelicorum, Bavaria
Vehicle(s): G 230 2,6 L Väth, Wolf 250 TD, G 350 BM9, SERVAL
Posts: 186
100

RE: PTO (Power take off)

Hi Bram,

the propshaft is going over the crossbar at the front and under the watercooler. The cabin is lifted by about 4cm. Enclosed you'll find pictures of the bracket holding the cardanic joint,

raicar

(Bracket holding the cardan joint.jpg)

(Bracket holding the cardan joint I.jpg)

(Bracket holding the cardan joint II.jpg)

(Propshaft to the front I.jpg)

(under the watercooler I.jpg)

(4 cm spacer I.jpg)

Attachments
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Bracket holding the cardan joint.jpg (174KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments

Bracket holding the cardan joint I.jpg (149KB - 0 downloads)
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Bracket holding the cardan joint II.jpg (154KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments

Propshaft to the front I.jpg (160KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments

under the watercooler I.jpg (101KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments

4 cm spacer I.jpg (147KB - 1 downloads)

#221203 - in reply to #135117

Author

Posted 4/8/2014 6:14 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

Re: PTO (Power take off)

Thanks so much again for taking the effort to help me on my way.

To verify:
- The bracket holding the cardan joint is welded on the underside of the left frame rail, correct?
- Your radiator is indeed lifted somewhat and therefor some space is available for the propshaft to pass between the water cooler and the front crossbar.

#221213 - in reply to #135117

Author

Posted 4/11/2014 6:18 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: PTO (Power take off)

So, picked up a tow-pin less bumper and cut out the middle section for some trial fitting.

Funny that the bumper-brackets holding the bumper to the chassis are thicker on the tow-pin version bumper.

First pics of trial fit:

]

]

Planning to draw a first design in 6mm steel and have some pieces lasercut.
For now I'm going with a design to keep the original outer sections and create and new center section holding the winch.

gr. Bram

#221285 - in reply to #135117

Author

Posted 6/17/2014 6:16 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: PTO (Power take off)

Just some pics showing some 3D progress designing my winch bumper.
First I start by drawing the winch and then designing the bumper around it.

Soon some more pics showing the bumper design.

gr. Bram

]

#222496 - in reply to #135117

Author

Posted 6/20/2014 7:45 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: PTO (Power take off)

First design taking shape...

]

#222551 - in reply to #135117

Author

Posted 9/12/2014 5:55 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: PTO (Power take off)

Well, things are starting to take shape

Trial fitting the lasercut pieces that came in:

]

After trial fit, tag welded the pieces together:

]

Putting the winch in, tight fit, but seems to work okay:

]

]

Underside

]

Offset...

]

So I got one issue and that is the winch needs about a 2,5" offset to the driver side to line up with the PTO propshaft.
I planned the propshaft to just go next to bottomside radiator, over front chassis crossmember and along side framerails
Other option is to lift the radiator about 2-3 inches, but as my body isn't and won't be lifted, I'm not sure if this will give me issues with the hood.

I think I need to cut and weld some extra or redesign the top tape to have the propshaft in the original location and offset the winch about 2,5" to the driver side.

gr. Bram

#223965 - in reply to #135117

Author

Posted 9/16/2014 5:17 AM

diesel_jim
Veteran

Date registered: Jan 2014
Location: N Wiltshire. UK
Vehicle(s): LR Defender 110, 1989 W460 SWB
Posts: 114
100

Re: PTO (Power take off)

Nice work there.

#223998 - in reply to #135117

Author

Posted 7/11/2016 1:51 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: PTO (Power take off)

raicar - 4/8/2014 2:51 PM

Hi Bram,

the propshaft is going over the crossbar at the front and under the watercooler. The cabin is lifted by about 4cm. Enclosed you'll find pictures of the bracket holding the cardanic joint,

raicar

I finally got around to install this u-joint bearing bracket to my chassis.

I designed an L-bracket with a gusset and some slots in there for vertical alignment of the u-joint bearing.
On this the bearing plate is bolted, again with some slots for horizontal alignment of the bearing.

PTO shaft runs horizontally under left engine mount and parallel to the frame between u-joint bearing and winch.

Gr. Bram

Edited by bram_r 7/11/2016 1:54 PM

(tussenlager_bracket (Small).JPG)

(IMG_1884 (Small).JPG)

(IMG_1876 (Small).JPG)

(IMG_1879 (Small).JPG)

(IMG_1880 (Small).JPG)

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tussenlager_bracket (Small).JPG (17KB - 0 downloads)
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IMG_1884 (Small).JPG (44KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments

IMG_1876 (Small).JPG (74KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments

IMG_1879 (Small).JPG (24KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments

IMG_1880 (Small).JPG (56KB - 0 downloads)

#232980 - in reply to #221203

Author

Posted 8/29/2016 2:23 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: PTO (Power take off)

Slow progress is still progress

Yesterday put my new engine mounts on the om617a for use with the trapezoid rubber dampers (not arrived yet, see the wooden blocks on the picture...).

Then put the 711.113 transmission on the om617a and hung the powerplant onto the chassis.

Looks like plenty of space for my PTO shaft between the om617a sump and the LH frame rail.

Edited by bram_r 8/29/2016 2:24 PM

(IMG_2722 (Small).JPG)

Attachments
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IMG_2722 (Small).JPG (70KB - 0 downloads)

#233667 - in reply to #135117

Author

Posted 8/29/2016 6:54 PM

ILIAN
Veteran

Date registered: Sep 2014
Location: Boston MA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500 1999 CL500
Posts: 181
100

Re: PTO (Power take off)

Why haven't the folks in Graz changed this frame a bit to make it easier to mount winches? I envy jeepers, all they have to do is bolt a 1/4" steel plate on their frame and done. You're doing great work bram. It will help me as I get ready to make a custom front bumper for a 12.5 Superwinch.

#233668 - in reply to #233667

Author

Posted 8/29/2016 8:31 PM

DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
5000

Re: PTO (Power take off)

ILIAN - 8/29/2016 6:54 PM

Why haven't the folks in Graz changed this frame a bit to make it easier to mount winches?

The W460 had an optional factory installed winch.

#233672 - in reply to #233668

Author

Posted 8/30/2016 5:24 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

Re: PTO (Power take off)

DUTCH - 8/30/2016 2:31 AM

ILIAN - 8/29/2016 6:54 PM

Why haven't the folks in Graz changed this frame a bit to make it easier to mount winches?

The W460 had an optional factory installed winch.

Indeed, Ilian; search for Rotzler to find the factory winch option. It's pretty rare and somewhat slow, but it does pull nicely. It's basicly mounted on the front bumper.

If you're looking for winch options, do a search on winchbumper and you'll find plenty of ideas.

I agree with you that the Jeep and american trucks communites got a lot to choose from on the after-market. But oh well, being a bit different is what makes having a G nice.

#233686 - in reply to #233672

Author

Posted 9/4/2016 1:19 PM

bram_r
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000

RE: PTO (Power take off)

After some (heavy) welding and the whole set-up is slowly taking shape.