PointedThree - Transfer Case in Neutral

Welcome Guest. ( logon | register )

FAQ

Member List

Albums

Today's Posts

PointedThree : Vans, Trucks, SUVs and Other Forums : G-Class : Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

Page 2 of 8

3.05

4.05

5.05

6.05 ...

Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

Topic Tools

Message Format

Author

Posted 8/28/2009 6:24 PM

ChuckB02
Member

Date registered: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego
Vehicle(s): '04 UZJ100 (FJ60, UZJ100, FJ55 all sold...)
Posts: 41

Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

ewalberg - 8/28/2009 10:18 AM

Correct, the 02+ have an electronic control instead of manual lever, but it's changed via a separate stand alone button, not the command interface.

Thanks.

This is a very informative thread. Sorry I can't contribute, but I am definitely learning.

Edited by ChuckB02 8/28/2009 6:29 PM

#156188 - in reply to #156182

Author

Posted 8/29/2009 2:44 AM

G-wagenaccessories

Date registered: Feb 2008
Location:
Vehicle(s): Mercedes-Benz

RE: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

W5YK - 8/28/2009 12:12 PM

Karl,

One thing I discovered is that you only get the "visit workshop" message if you disconnect the servo motor from the control module. You may have a bad harness, or it may just be that the connector on the servor motor is not pushed completely on. When I was testing my servo motor, I found that it had not been pushed on all the way, and was not mechanically "latched". There is a large rubber seal that can get trapped and prevent the connector pushing on all the way. Worth checking.

Richard

Ok, I couldn't just wait and crawled under the truck tonight - BTW with 295/75 x 16 tires and a modest spring lift you don't need a car jack anymore to

work under the truck.

I removed the shift motor quite easily and could find anything weird......at first.....Took the spline gear of the support shaft and the spline looked just

perfect.

Cleaned the motor a bit and checked the attached connector - again everything looked fine. After I reinstalled the shift motor I notice some green corrosion

on the grounding strap to the TC housing - not real bad, so it got reinstalled too.

Trying to push the wire harness connector back onto the motor, I suddenly noticed one of the main power wires was broken off at the connector and the

other one was just hanging by a few copper strands. Luckily I was able to release those tiny pins from the connector housing and soldered a length of new

stranded wire on them. While doing that it was very obvious that the original two power wires had some kind of heat damage and the remaining copper

strands on the connector pins seemed to be discolored and brittle - not from any external heat source, but electrical overload.

After the repair, the display message was reset by pushing the TC shift button into LO and HIGH and holding it down for a few seconds - now the L and H

are displayed correctly and the shift motor does it deed - for right now, I have not driven the truck yet.

Karl

(IMG_2328.jpg)

(IMG_2335.jpg)

(IMG_2337.jpg)

(IMG_2338.jpg)

(IMG_2343.jpg)

(IMG_2344.jpg)

(IMG_2346.jpg)

(IMG_2350.jpg)

(IMG_2352.jpg)

Attachments
----------------

IMG_2328.jpg (69KB - 12 downloads)
Attachments

IMG_2335.jpg (66KB - 9 downloads)
Attachments

IMG_2337.jpg (72KB - 9 downloads)
Attachments

IMG_2338.jpg (47KB - 8 downloads)
Attachments

IMG_2343.jpg (48KB - 6 downloads)
Attachments

IMG_2344.jpg (67KB - 7 downloads)
Attachments

IMG_2346.jpg (66KB - 8 downloads)
Attachments

IMG_2350.jpg (49KB - 10 downloads)
Attachments

IMG_2352.jpg (46KB - 11 downloads)

#156204 - in reply to #156173

Author

Posted 8/29/2009 11:37 PM

Fernando BR

Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: Brasil
Vehicle(s): G500/05 300GE/91 300GD/80
1000

Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

I love my 05 G500 , but I must say that the 300GE lever is a must......There is no reasons to change a good lever for a complicated system in that case. I can understand EPC, ESP......but not that.

#156236 - in reply to #156120

Author

Posted 8/29/2009 11:59 PM

Indiana Drew
Expert

Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Houston Tx
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500
Posts: 2223
2000

Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

Fernando BR - 8/29/2009 10:37 PM I love my 05 G500 , but I must say that the 300GE lever is a must......There is no reasons to change a good lever for a complicated system in that case. I can understand EPC, ESP......but not that.

But Fernando don't you know the MB luxury consultant said that a complex switch, controller, motor and actuators system that allows for a center console/armrest is far more desirable then a lever and seat mounted arm rests ...

Edited by Indiana Drew 8/30/2009 12:00 AM

#156237 - in reply to #156236

Author

Posted 8/30/2009 11:43 AM

fernweh

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
2000

RE: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

Update,

took the truck out for a leisurely Sunday drive to Laguna Beach (150 Miles) - and have not seen the error message yet, but always the "H" in its correct place

Karl

#156261 - in reply to #156120

Author

Posted 11/12/2009 1:56 PM

BlueG
Elite Veteran

Date registered: Aug 2009
Location: DC
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 714
500

Transfercase just popped into neutral with a BANG then grinding in all gears including park?

I was leaving my parking spot when the truck made a BANG and wouldn't move forward. The transfercase was in neutral. Putting it in Park made it just click. I shut the truck off, turned it on, pushed high range and now its fine. What happened and do I have to take any further action? 2003 G500 (love the thing).

#160252 - in reply to #156120

Author

Posted 11/12/2009 2:31 PM

BlueG
Elite Veteran

Date registered: Aug 2009
Location: DC
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 714
500

Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

Just had this stupid thing happen to me in my 03. Was driving and BANG. Vehicle won't move. Toggle around with the range selector switch and it goes into High and I drive off.

So what do I replace. The motor is on the tcase right? And the controller is inside?

#160258 - in reply to #156120

Author

Posted 11/12/2009 2:48 PM

Thai G
Elite Veteran

Date registered: Jul 2007
Location: Texas
Vehicle(s): 2004 G500
Posts: 940
500

Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

Awesome thread! Thanks.

2004 G500 with 66k miles. Nothing in the TC replaced since i bought it new in July 2004. (forgot manufacturing date...will update tonight)

Never had a blank screen. Never had TC issue. I have been off-road plenty of times (all before 50k miles) and i am normally in 4-LO during those times.

Crossing my fingers and knocking on wood....

#160260 - in reply to #156120

Author

Posted 11/12/2009 3:01 PM

BlueG
Elite Veteran

Date registered: Aug 2009
Location: DC
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 714
500

Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

I don't seem to understand whether I have to replace both the motor and the control module or if I can just replace one? Would pulling the motor from underneath allow me to survey it for damage? Or would damage be hidden?

#160261 - in reply to #156120

Author

Posted 11/12/2009 3:29 PM

fernweh

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
2000

Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

NoPaint - 11/12/2009 12:01 PM

I don't seem to understand whether I have to replace both the motor and the control module or if I can just replace one? Would pulling the motor from underneath allow me to survey it for damage? Or would damage be hidden?

Please read this thread again.......

After repairing the wiring at the transfer case shift motor - no more fault messages, bad shifts or blank screen - I would guess 3.5K Miles since the repair.

So before spending real money on have to good look at the conditions of the wiring close to the motor's connector

Karl

#160262 - in reply to #160261

Author

Posted 11/12/2009 3:54 PM

BlueG
Elite Veteran

Date registered: Aug 2009
Location: DC
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 714
500

Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

Karl,

Thanks for the reply. I see that was your problem and I will take a look at mine too. The only thing is that I have a 2003 and I figure the motor is probably the not so good one anyway. I am confused as to the controller however. Does that need to be replaced too or was my loud bang associated with a neutral transfercase due to the motor? It did go back into High.

#160263 - in reply to #156120

Author

Posted 11/12/2009 7:39 PM

W5YK
Extreme Veteran

Date registered: May 2006
Location: San Diego
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500, Unimog U2450,
Posts: 543
500

Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

Sounds like you have the same thing I had. I had a few of the "bangs" into neutral. I could reset them with the H/L switch. But it got worse and worse until I was stuck in N (took a few months).

It's easy to take the shift motor off the TC. Just some bolts. Nothing falls out, nothing critical to adjust. It is safe to just take it off. It is not so easy to see if the motor gears are stripped. You cannot take it apart without damage. I would say it is almost certain to be the problem, unless it is the wiring, from the symptoms you describe. I think they are about $500 from Mercedes, which is a lot just for some plastic gears.

After I replaced mine, I took the old motor even more to pieces, and found even worse stripping of the gears inside, not just the splines on the shaft that I photographed in an earlier post. I will try to attach.

Do you need to also replace the module? I don't know for sure. I replaced mine because I got a cheap one on ebay. I had a theory that maybe the module design was faulty, not stopping the motor from stalling into the plastic gears quickly enough, but I don't know. It is really time-consuming - you have to pull the whole center console apart. First time is all day, second time maybe an hour. I would suggest to just change the motor initially.

Edited by W5YK 11/12/2009 7:51 PM

(IMG_4525.jpg)

(IMG_4532.jpg)

Attachments
----------------

IMG_4525.jpg (23KB - 7 downloads)
Attachments

IMG_4532.jpg (43KB - 4 downloads)

#160277 - in reply to #160261

Author

Posted 11/12/2009 7:48 PM

W5YK
Extreme Veteran

Date registered: May 2006
Location: San Diego
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500, Unimog U2450,
Posts: 543
500

RE: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

Here is the TC shift module - the silver box in the middle. To get to it, the whole center armrest piece comes out (that is a puzzle). Then you have to move those fuses out of the way. It is not hard to do, it is just hard to figure out how to do it.

Edited by W5YK 11/12/2009 7:52 PM

(IMG_4494.jpg)

Attachments
----------------

IMG_4494.jpg (55KB - 5 downloads)

#160278 - in reply to #156120

Author

Posted 11/12/2009 11:11 PM

BlueG
Elite Veteran

Date registered: Aug 2009
Location: DC
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 714
500

Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

W5YK

Thanks for posting. I spoke with Vlad. He told me to leave it alone for now unless it happens again. If it happens again I will be looking to replace the motor. I think the module has been replaced with the updated parts and I did not get a warning message in the cluster as you normally would apparently if they go bad. I simply had a blank square where it should show an "H" for high range. I honestly think this is a part where the gear can most likely be found and replaced but nobody is going to look that far into it so we will end up replacing units.

#160285 - in reply to #156120

Author

Posted 11/13/2009 11:08 AM

clubgwagen.com
Elite Veteran

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: gwagenpreserve.com
Vehicle(s): 300GE Cabriolet
Posts: 736
500

Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

excellent thread, thanks for this info and diagnostic guidance!

my 2002 has 138,000 miles on it, and goes into low range at least once every other day, so we have a lot of actuations on the system. Since 88k I have gotten the H/L light errors, and sometimes hard time getting it in and out of low, but always goes smooth with a little patience, and rolling slowly, which is key to smooth engagement (and less servo wear).

#160314 - in reply to #156120

Author

Posted 11/13/2009 11:18 AM

Indiana Drew
Expert

Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Houston Tx
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500
Posts: 2223
2000

Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

clubgwagen.com - 11/13/2009 10:08 AM excellent thread, thanks for this info and diagnostic guidance! my 2002 has 138,000 miles on it, and goes into low range at least once every other day, so we have a lot of actuations on the system. Since 88k I have gotten the H/L light errors, and sometimes hard time getting it in and out of low, but always goes smooth with a little patience, and rolling slowly, which is key to smooth engagement (and less servo wear).

Mike:

Mine 2002 (106K) exact same symptoms at same miles ... Same "fix" so far, too ... I guess one day I will need to do the module, etc ... I should go by the dealer and have them pull my records too and see what was replaced if anything - in almost 8 years I don't recall ...

#160316 - in reply to #160314

Author

Posted 11/13/2009 1:51 PM

W5YK
Extreme Veteran

Date registered: May 2006
Location: San Diego
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500, Unimog U2450,
Posts: 543
500

Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

NoPaint - 11/12/2009 8:11 PM
I simply had a blank square where it should show an "H" for high range

I had that for about five years before the motor finally failed. I think it is very common on 2002/2003/2004 models. I suspect it is because as the plastic teeth wear out, it takes more revolutions of the motor to hit the limit, and the control module then is uncertain about the position of the shift fork.

Once the shifter actually starts to fail ie you get the bang and you are in neutral, then I think you are on borrowed time. I would order a motor so you have it ready. You can change it in ten minutes. You are probably right that the plastic gear could be replaced - I bet it is just from a standard Bosch window regulator motor. But which one?

If you get stuck in the middle of nowhere with this problem, you can force it into gear by putting 12V to the two outer contacts of the motor. This will force it as far as it can go, which will be enough to get a gear engaged. Reverse the polarity if you don't like that gear. You need the motor - the spline is too stiff to turn by hand.

#160329 - in reply to #160285

Author

Posted 11/13/2009 2:17 PM

BlueG
Elite Veteran

Date registered: Aug 2009
Location: DC
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 714
500

Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific

I guess I could leave it as is or replace the motor. With electronics and especially Mercedes electronics I have a tendency to think that they often "mess up" but that doesn't mean there is a fix needed. In this case I am going to wait to see if I get another bang accompanied with a neutral transfercase. If that happens I will replace the motor. If anyone has a used one that they would like to throw away I would pay shipping to get a look at it and see if my machinist friend would be interested in making some gears for us (no promise it can be done but worth a try?).

#160330 - in reply to #156120

Author

Posted 11/13/2009 3:05 PM

Thai G
Elite Veteran

Date registered: Jul 2007
Location: Texas
Vehicle(s): 2004 G500
Posts: 940
500