|
roosaar372
New user
Date registered: Jun 2010
Location: Estonia
Vehicle(s):
Posts: 2
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
Hi to everyone!
I have had this transfer case problem also down to that car refuses to move! by checking it with PC - appeared as faulty TC switch problem, but Is it possible that this Transfer Case problem effects changing gears during the drive also? I mean while I'm driving on city speed then the gearbox shifts from second to third or from third to fourth sharply not smoothly like it should. I have changed gearbox oil several times but no help! Could it be TC problem or something else? |
|
| |
|
BlueG
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2009
Location: DC
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 714
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
Your transfercase operates independently from your transmission. A hard shifting transmission is a transmission or throttle position sensor related issue.
Your transfercase likely requires the work provided for in this post; namely a new transfercase shift motor (~$450 in parts). |
|
| |
|
W5YK
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: San Diego
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500, Unimog U2450,
Posts: 543
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
This is not caused by the TC. Must be something else. But I don't know what! |
|
| |
|
abp
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2006
Location: Pasadena, California
Vehicle(s): 1982 300CD
Posts: 60
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
Hi All,
I'm getting ready to replace my servo motor and just need to know if I'm going to be able to do this without access to the STAR system? It seems that from the thread that it's just an unbolt and replace, but was not sure if anything would have to be reset.
thanks for the help. |
|
| |
|
W5YK
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: San Diego
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500, Unimog U2450,
Posts: 543
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
Yes, you can put the new one in and it will work, without using STAR.
There is a learning process you can do in the STAR. This allows the TC module to measure the exact position of the end of travel in each direction. Ideally, you should do this. But I think you can get away without doing it, because that adaptation is really measuring the characteristics of your TC shifter fork, not the characteristics of the shift motor. Once you have adapted one shift motor, I think that is good for replacement motors too. The gearing and pulse-counting of the shift motors is going to be precisely the same from one to the next.
Good luck!
|
|
| |
|
abp
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2006
Location: Pasadena, California
Vehicle(s): 1982 300CD
Posts: 60
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
Thanks W5YK!
I'll see how it goes. |
|
| |
|
fernweh
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
| RE: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
Please read this thread again.......
After repairing the wiring at the transfer case shift motor - no more fault messages, bad shifts or blank screen - I would guess 42K Miles since (2009) the repair.
So before spending real money on have to good look at the conditions of the wiring close to the motor's connector
Karl |
|
| |
|
krnnerdboy
Regular
Date registered: Aug 2011
Location: los angeles
Vehicle(s): 02 g500, 640 gran coupe, f30, m6, gt3
Posts: 55
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
Here's a cheap replacement motor I found...
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/racatalog.php?carcode=1433620&partt... |
|
| |
|
thanito
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2009
Location: Greece
Vehicle(s): MB G400CDI, MB 300E-24, Mini Cooper S
Posts: 253
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
I think that this link shows a price for a rebuild of the shift motor that you will send to them..still decent price, if it only was in Europe.. |
|
| |
|
robwill54
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2007
Location: South of Houston on the Gulf
Vehicle(s): '12 G550,F350 Superduty, E250
Posts: 140
| RE: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
I have an '03 and started experiencing the TC in Neutral message, blank box where the H or L should be, and the TC actually in neutral(unable to move vehicle). No clunks, bangs, but one occasion when trying to manipulate the shift I heard a noise like gear on gear clicking while shifting from park to drive. Probably the transfer case partially shifted. This has gone on for about a year; only happened less than 10 times so far. I will check my wires first. Good thread.
Bob |
|
| |
|
fernweh
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
| RE: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
robwill54 - 11/30/2011 11:41 AM
I have an '03 and started experiencing the TC in Neutral message, blank box where the H or L should be, and the TC actually in neutral(unable to move vehicle). No clunks, bangs, but one occasion when trying to manipulate the shift I heard a noise like gear on gear clicking while shifting from park to drive. Probably the transfer case partially shifted. This has gone on for about a year; only happened less than 10 times so far. I will check my wires first. Good thread.
Bob
When the TC is in neutral (not planned), and you try to shift into D - nothing will happen, but when shifting back into P, you will hear the ugly clicking of the gears.
The shafts in the transmission are spinning slowly as you have no connections to the wheels and the transmission is not able to shift into "Park"(locking gear) without that noise.
Same ugly noise when the truck is still rolling and you try to shift into "P".
Karl |
|
| |
|
ONE
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2007
Location: SW
Vehicle(s): G-less at the moment...ford
Posts: 105
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
I once had the TC in neutral and ugly grinding noises as well when trying to shift...replaced the TC motor myself and everything went smoothly - didn't use Star - seems wroking perfectly. The replacing was super easy - even for a non mechanic like me |
|
| |
|
thanito
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2009
Location: Greece
Vehicle(s): MB G400CDI, MB 300E-24, Mini Cooper S
Posts: 253
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
Karl,
I checked the wiring and ground cable next to the actuator motor and everything is clean.
Next task is to remove the shift motor to see the plastic teeth |
|
| |
|
thanito
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2009
Location: Greece
Vehicle(s): MB G400CDI, MB 300E-24, Mini Cooper S
Posts: 253
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
Today I removed the TC actuator motor to take a look at the plastic teeth condition. The teeth looked perfect, yet still I do not know the inside teeth condition, so this leads me to conclude that the problem for me lies to the TC module and not the shift motor.
Kind of newbie question: Is oil supposed to be in there?? Because after I removed it it was soaked with oil.
I attach some photos below:
Edited by thanito 12/14/2011 3:46 PM
|
|
| |
|
fernweh
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
| RE: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
Thanos,
gears are looking good, oil - it's a gear box and it would be real bad if there wouldn't be any oil.
If there is a seal on the cap/motor, then there is a reason for it. Make sure the electrical motor connector is clean and snaps on tight.
Shift the gears with the Star system so the ECU recognizes the positions for Low & High and try that for a while, before replacing the ECU itself.
Good luck,
Karl |
|
| |
|
AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
Caveat: I'm making comments based on pictures posted further up in this thread rather than first-hand knowledge. It seems that the gears that wear out are not visible in the picture you show. Those gears are the worm drive assembly inside the motor assembly. You'll have to open the motor assembly to get a true sense of any damage.
|
|
| |
|
thanito
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2009
Location: Greece
Vehicle(s): MB G400CDI, MB 300E-24, Mini Cooper S
Posts: 253
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
@Karl: I know it is a gearbox, but I thought that it would be somehow sealed as well for the shift motor, or else all the oil would spill outside..
I cleaned the seal before remounting the motor as well. As for the connector, the inside was clean as new, not even any sign of dust, knock wood. The ground cable looked fine also, no obvious corrosion like yours.
The last few days I have no TC in N issues, but I will plug it on STAR on Wednesday when I service the propshaft as well. Is there any "stress test" on STAR? That could train or test the functionality of the motor for some time?
Cheers!
@Alan: I am aware of that, hence why I said that I am not sure about the inside teeth condition, but I am not sure if I can remove the plastic teeth by removing the ring clip, without damaging the inside motor. I remember another forum member that said that you may damage it if you open it, is this correct or should I do it without worries?
Thank you both,
Thanos |
|
| |
|
W5YK
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: San Diego
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500, Unimog U2450,
Posts: 543
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
Thanos,
That little bit of oil dripping out is OK. Normal!
The motor cannot be taken apart without risking some damage. I would not do it unless you have a new one ready.
The STAR will tell you how many times the TC fault has happened. You can also use the STAR to re-adapt the motor and check the actuation. If you get an error like "actuator position not plausible" or "could not learn" or "adaptation failed", then that is a good indication that the motor gears are stripped inside.
You have to make a bet on whether to replace the motor, the module, or both of them. No way to know. If it was me, I would leave the module there and try a new motor.
Edited by W5YK 12/14/2011 9:18 PM
|
|
| |
|
MiN
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Alpujarras, Spain
Vehicle(s): No cars, at all.
Posts: 555
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
It seems that the gears that wear out are not visible in the picture you show. Those gears are the worm drive assembly inside the motor assembly. You'll have to open the motor assembly to get a true sense of any damage.
Damn, I wish I'd known that earlier. I replaced the control module (a tiresome job) after having the blank box appear too many times in the instrument cluster display. I also took off the motor and could see no wear on the plastic splines etc...so, cleaned it up and re-fitted it. Need less to say, the blank box re-appeared and I presumed it was a faulty control module. I've recently replaced the motor and I've yet to see the blank box re-appear - so, go for the motor before you go for the control module is good advice!
What does annoy me is that this seems to be quite a solid looking electric motor from Bosch and it's hardly over-used in most G Wagens but it seems to fail so frequently that it's a real weak link in the system. |
|
| |
|
AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: Transfer Case in Neutral - let's get scientific
MiN - 12/19/2011 11:52 PM It seems that the gears that wear out are not visible in the picture you show. Those gears are the worm drive assembly inside the motor assembly. You'll have to open the motor assembly to get a true sense of any damage. Damn, I wish I'd known that earlier. I replaced the control module (a tiresome job ) after having the blank box appear too many times in the instrument cluster display. I also took off the motor and could see no wear on the plastic splines etc...so, cleaned it up and re-fitted it. Need less to say, the blank box re-appeared and I presumed it was a faulty control module. I've recently replaced the motor and I've yet to see the blank box re-appear - so, go for the motor before you go for the control module is good advice! What does annoy me is that this seems to be quite a solid looking electric motor from Bosch and it's hardly over-used in most G Wagens but it seems to fail so frequently that it's a real weak link in the system. This is a classic engineering management screwup: - Realizing that the motor will only be used a few hundred times, the decision is made to go with plastic worm gears.
- To facilitate manufacturability and self diagnosis the shift motor is instrumented with torque sensing. That way the control system knows when the motor has hit both ends of travel.
- The software guys say "hey, we can make sure the thing is solidly in one of the three positions by checking the shift calibration on every startup".
- Now the original spec is wrong. It is being used thousands of times, not hundreds.
- (Oops) Premature failure.
|
|
| |
