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| Way@Out Regular Date registered: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Vehicle(s): W460 300GD '85 Posts: 69  | RE: Swaping a 617 for a 606 Well today we took our first shot at placing the 606 in it's new home, and found a few problems. 1. The 606 sedan engine supports don't fit. We're going to fabricate some new ones for the original mounts (thanks AlanMcR for advise about the oil filled ones). 2. The AC compressor was removed before hand so it wouldn't snag the steering box (thanks tinker). 3. Then it all came to a stop as expected because the gearbox is sitting to low and touching the top of the tunnel. I will have to lift the truck to increase the height between the chassis and the frame 5cm (2"). The height will be increased using nylon spacers. I'm afraid this solution will create an uncomfortable ride due to the hardness off the spacers. I was thinking of maintaining the rubber supports and placing the nylon either under or on top of the rubber supports but my mechanic doesn't agree. He thinks the swaying of the chassis will tear either end or shear the bolts due to the height of the lift. Does any one have experience they'd like to share or an opinion? Here are a few pictures of the engine being placed in the engine bay. (Image0464.jpg) (Image0465.jpg) Attachments ----------------  Image0464.jpg (135KB - 7 downloads) Image0465.jpg (123KB - 5 downloads) | |
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| AlanMcR Expert Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, CA, Los Altos Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL Posts: 3500  | ||
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| Inkblotz Expert Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Georgia Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo Posts: 3186 | ||
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| Way@Out Regular Date registered: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Vehicle(s): W460 300GD '85 Posts: 69 | RE: Swaping a 617 for a 606 The problem is that the transmission is taller. The transmission support cross member had been removed. I need to raise the transmission at least 3cm to get the cross member in with the support. I don't see a solution other than raising the chassis. Which is something I'd like to get right, It'll be my daily ride and I'd like to keep it comfy. Your opinions and thoughts are welcome, great thanks to those who share them.  | |
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| Inkblotz Expert Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Georgia Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo Posts: 3186 | ||
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| Way@Out Regular Date registered: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Vehicle(s): W460 300GD '85 Posts: 69 | ||
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| Way@Out Regular Date registered: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Vehicle(s): W460 300GD '85 Posts: 69 | RE: Swaping a 617 for a 606 Here's a drawing illustrating the setup I thought would give me a more comfortable ride. My mechanic expects some sway that would eventually tear either the chassis or frame and possibly shear the bolt. He suggests removing the rubber all together and simply place the nylon which I expect will make the ride less comfortable. (Nylon Support.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Nylon Support.JPG (22KB - 7 downloads) | |
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hipine Date registered: Jul 2006 Location: US, CO, Bailey Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A  | ||
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| syncro Extreme Veteran Date registered: May 2007 Location: Orinda, CA Vehicle(s): '84 280GE LWB > 300GD, '75 240D Posts: 477  | ||
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| hus55 Expert Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: north cyprus,lapta. Vehicle(s): 300GDS, G300 LONG,300GDT CLK55 AMG CAB. Posts: 2230 | RE: Swaping a 617 for a 606 because i am no where near as knowledgable as the guru's here, i would prefer to keep quiet whilst reading this topic. good luck way@out,looking very pro so far. i would like to comment on the plungers/elements that came out of my 606 pump. they measured 6mm as opposed to the 5.5mm ones that came out of the 603 pump.i will report on the results when i get my cabrio back.  | |
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| Way@Out Regular Date registered: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Vehicle(s): W460 300GD '85 Posts: 69 | RE: Swaping a 617 for a 606 Thanks to all for your thoughts and opinions. I'm going to work on the truck towards the weekend, hopefully I'll get an alternative to the body lift with all this help. | |
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| gvp Member Date registered: Nov 2009 Location: ATHENS-GREECE Vehicle(s): MERCEDES GD300 Posts: 19 | ||
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| Way@Out Regular Date registered: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Vehicle(s): W460 300GD '85 Posts: 69 | RE: Swaping a 617 for a 606 Well I couldn't wait till the weekend... As long as she doesn't know that I pulled an engine that was in perfect working condition and I'm trying to replace it for fun I shouldn't have trouble. She's the "If it's running don't touch it" kind of person. I remeasured and measured what I didn't measure before the swap. I've got an obese tranny. The last 20cm of the tunnel are level so as I pulled the engine out I didn't get the space I need. This week I should receive a sprinter crossbar and support which I've been told is lower. If it doesn't workout I'll consider selling the tranny and look for a replacement. Here are a few images with measurements. (3.jpg) (1.jpg) (5.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 3.jpg (157KB - 5 downloads) 1.jpg (135KB - 7 downloads) 5.jpg (133KB - 8 downloads) | |
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| syncro Extreme Veteran Date registered: May 2007 Location: Orinda, CA Vehicle(s): '84 280GE LWB > 300GD, '75 240D Posts: 477 | ||
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| Loki Laufeyjarson Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: 66°N, 19°W Vehicle(s):  | ||
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| Way@Out Regular Date registered: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Vehicle(s): W460 300GD '85 Posts: 69 | RE: Swaping a 617 for a 606 syncro - 3/10/2010 4:01 PM that does look tall but the size is all below the shaft center. Also the mount tab at the rear appears to be farther down from the shaft center than the tab on a G/sedan gearbox. In the first picture I have the measurements of the original gearbox (previous) and the measurement of the new gearbox. As you can see the new gearbox is 6cm taller from the shaft center, this is why it won't fit in the tunnel and rest on the original support and cross member. As if that wasn't enough the new gearbox has an extra 1.5cm from the shaft center to the support tab. I agree that my best solution will be either fabricating a new cross member or using the sprinter cross member if it's lower. | |
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| hipine Date registered: Jul 2006 Location: US, CO, Bailey Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A | RE: Swaping a 617 for a 606 Way@Out - 3/10/2010 12:15 PM ....I agree that my best solution will be either fabricating a new cross member or using the sprinter cross member if it's lower.... Just keep in mind that lowering the rear changes the angle of the flange in relation to the t-case flange and that greater angle will put greater stress on the shaft, either in the form of vibrations in a U-joint shaft, or in load management/wear in a CV shaft. If you want to try and maintain the prper flange angle, then lowering the trans mount will mean also lowering the motor mounts, which brings the motor closer to the axle. Not saying it can't be done, just saying fore-warned is fore-armed, and the more of this stuff you consider and make an effort to account for, the better your chances of coming out with something that's not a hacked up pile of compromises. The devil is in the details and you've done a great job figuring things out so far. Looks like you'll come out with a great truck if you can maintain this level of attention to detail through the project. Lots of folks start out with good intentions and throw them out half way through when the going gets tough. I've said it before...perseverence will win the day! And if that means being sure that this isn't the right trans, and going to something else, then so be it. It might not come to that, but the only way you'll know for sure is to walk the path the way you have been. And thanks for taking the extra time to share what you're learning here. This it the part that I mostly chucked when I did my conversion, rebuild, tranny swap, etc. I had to give up something and in my case staying focused on managing all the issues meant that documentation of what they were for others to follow is what suffered. Now people have to depend on my bad memory and resulting over-simplification in my head when they ask how I did something.  Nice work. Keep it up. -Dave G. | |
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| gvp Member Date registered: Nov 2009 Location: ATHENS-GREECE Vehicle(s): MERCEDES GD300 Posts: 19 | ||
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| Way@Out Regular Date registered: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Vehicle(s): W460 300GD '85 Posts: 69 | RE: Swaping a 617 for a 606 Thanks for encouragement Dave, it is a bit frustrating at times. I have found a solution for the cross member that will get me the space needed. I have cut a piece of steel 52cmX10cmX1cm put it in place with the mount and I get the clearance needed. But as Dave correctly said I'll now have to check the oil pan clearance from the differential. If I do encounter problems here (which I'm sure I will, thanks to Huss55 for the info) I will do a spring lift to clear the oil pan. But before that I will cut the oil pan as Huss55 did. If I'm happy with the swap when completed then I'll buy the proper oil pan and readjust the springs if need be. GVP, before spending a €uro on this project I made a promise to myself, I won't do anything to the truck that can't be easily undone. In the end if I'm not satisfied I'll put the old 617 back in and learn to be patient. So cutting the tranny tunnel is not an option. | |
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