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bram_r Expert Date registered: Apr 2007 Location: the Netherlands Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD Posts: 1659 | RE: Rotzler rebuild elevatorbernie - 4/3/2010 9:29 PM That relay looks like alot less work and it would be servicable too, good choice. :) thanks Bernie. I still would like to use the orange Rotzler controller so it will look as stock as possible. But only if I find (used) one for a nice price. A new one is about E 540,- from Rotzler. Btw, the controller box I got quoted around E 1070,-, you can buy a lot of solenoids for that Bram | ||
#169189 - in reply to #169187 | |||
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Arnd Regular Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Vehicle(s): 280GE, 300TE Posts: 85 | Re: Rotzler rebuild A few years ago the ER1500 was still in the MB-Pricelist as a COMPLETE sparepart. The price for it was over € 4500 ... that's more than twice the price you had to pay in the eighties when you ordered it as a factory option. ;-) | ||
#169547 - in reply to #167768 | |||
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DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | Re: Rotzler rebuild Arnd - 4/10/2010 5:24 AM A few years ago the ER1500 was still in the MB-Pricelist as a COMPLETE sparepart. The price for it was over € 4500 ... that's more than twice the price you had to pay in the eighties when you ordered it as a factory option. ;-) It's actually a whole lot more than twice as much. The G52 Option (Winch) was DM 4.460,-- in 1984 or about US$1,500.--. € 4500 is about US$6,000 at today's rate. | ||
#169548 - in reply to #169547 | |||
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bram_r Expert Date registered: Apr 2007 Location: the Netherlands Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD Posts: 1659 | RE: Rotzler rebuild Yesterday I got the winch working for the first time, nice! Here're some pics of what's been done: - bought an aluminum control box, about the same outer size of the Rotzler box. Of course it was big enough to facilitate my winch relay. - bought the 2-pin Nato connector. - put the relay in the alu-box and wired the motor with 35mm2 cable. Of course, put the alu box in the original control box location. - used the old skool hand controller which I got with the winch. I lost unforunately one of the small connector pins in the sockets, so I improvised something (see pic). Maybe some day later I find what brand this socket is, or use another handcontroller + connecting socket. - later, I will also install the overload switch which is housed on the worm gear. This will disconnect the hand controller wire for winding the winch. I noticed with test running the gear and everything runs fine. However, the motor is getting a little warm. So I have to investigate if the motor needs a rebuild. Next week I'll do some basic inspection, then maybe take it to a specialist and see what they have to say. I also need to find some info what maintenance, grease, oil and all that is needed for the gear box and worm gear. Later, I will give the winch a small rebuild, so it will be painted and all looks neat and tidy. Of course, that shiny alu shiny box will be black as well. Some user info how warm the motor runs, what maintenance is carried out, is welcome of course. Happy to have it running for now and it will be fully operational in the near future I hope! gr. Bram (DSCN8549k.JPG) (DSCN8550k.JPG) (DSCN8552k.JPG) (DSCN8554k.JPG) Attachments ---------------- DSCN8549k.JPG (70KB - 5 downloads) DSCN8550k.JPG (72KB - 4 downloads) DSCN8552k.JPG (51KB - 4 downloads) DSCN8554k.JPG (89KB - 4 downloads) | ||
#174098 - in reply to #167768 | |||
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hipine Date registered: Jul 2006 Location: US, CO, Bailey Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A | RE: Rotzler rebuild Nice work, Bram! -Dave G. | ||
#174107 - in reply to #174098 | |||
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elevatorbernie Expert Date registered: Aug 2006 Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada Vehicle(s): 1989 280GE Posts: 1347 | RE: Rotzler rebuild Good job and now the relay can be serviced, it's better than new. Edited by elevatorbernie 6/28/2010 1:40 AM | ||
#174118 - in reply to #174098 | |||
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Arnd Regular Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Vehicle(s): 280GE, 300TE Posts: 85 | Re: Rotzler rebuild Nice work! | ||
#174127 - in reply to #167768 | |||
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-UG- Extreme Veteran Date registered: Jun 2006 Location: Finland Vehicle(s): GD300, S350 CDI Posts: 446 | Re: Rotzler rebuild DUTCH - 4/10/2010 1:00 PM Arnd - 4/10/2010 5:24 AM A few years ago the ER1500 was still in the MB-Pricelist as a COMPLETE sparepart. The price for it was over € 4500 ... that's more than twice the price you had to pay in the eighties when you ordered it as a factory option. ;-) It's actually a whole lot more than twice as much. The G52 Option (Winch) was DM 4.460,-- in 1984 or about US$1,500.--. € 4500 is about US$6,000 at today's rate. Not quite as simple... you need to discount this first to current value. If my quick calculation is correct, so with 4,2% average annual inflation, the present value of the 1500 eur after 27 years is 4670 eur. So it seems that the winch price has actually come down a bit if you ignore the cost of mounting it. | ||
#174166 - in reply to #169548 | |||
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bram_r Expert Date registered: Apr 2007 Location: the Netherlands Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD Posts: 1659 | RE: Rotzler rebuild Today I took the winch apart to have the motor checked out and I thought I could do a little optical restoration in the proces. Next week I'll take the motor to an expert and hopefully he can do some measuring, to see if all windings are all good. A modification what I'm planning to do is to make a ground connection point directly in the motor housing itself. The mounting edges of the motor housing where a little dirty and corroded, so I can imagine it has quite some resistance to the standard ground connection point. Making a ground connection point directly into the motor housing will prevent this, and with such high currents, every gain is useful. Question: - Does any of the Rotzler users here have a maintenance instruction for the winch? - How much and what oil should go in each compartment? Otherwise I'll ask Rotzler for this. Well, some pics of the winch: 1. frame parts of the winch. Will try with a torch to get the dents out of the frame. Then sandblast and have it powdercoated. 2. worm gear cover, text looks more american than german. Seems to me that the winch mechanism indeed is made by Ramsey and Rotzler made the frame and the controls. 3. primary reduction (motor is out). 4. worm gear. 5. winch drum shaft with free spool pins housed in the endcap. 6. winch drum end cap. 7. winch motor, all looked good at first glance. See what the experts have to say! 8. winch motor. The housing is quite thick. As said, I can make a thread in the housing and put in a bolt which holds the ground wire going to the main connector. Edited by bram_r 7/4/2010 6:36 PM (DSCN8587k.JPG) (DSCN8591k.JPG) (DSCN8597k.JPG) (DSCN8600k.jpg) (DSCN8601k.JPG) (DSCN8602k.JPG) (DSCN8604k.JPG) (DSCN8606k.JPG) Attachments ---------------- DSCN8587k.JPG (123KB - 5 downloads) DSCN8591k.JPG (73KB - 4 downloads) DSCN8597k.JPG (96KB - 5 downloads) DSCN8600k.jpg (94KB - 5 downloads) DSCN8601k.JPG (57KB - 5 downloads) DSCN8602k.JPG (62KB - 5 downloads) DSCN8604k.JPG (45KB - 4 downloads) DSCN8606k.JPG (80KB - 4 downloads) | ||
#174399 - in reply to #167768 | |||
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DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | RE: Rotzler rebuild bram_r - 7/4/2010 6:33 PM Question: - Does any of the Rotzler users here have a maintenance instruction for the winch? - How much and what oil should go in each compartment? Otherwise I'll ask Rotzler for this. Hipine has all of my factory manuals that came with and that I obtained later direct from Rotzler. The long gear gets 0.4 liter of SAE 80-90 gear oil. I'll have to see if I can find a clearer photo of the front flat gear that is shown in my pBase website. There's a small plate in photo #3 that gives the quantities, but it's not clear enough to read. | ||
#174401 - in reply to #174399 | |||
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DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | RE: Rotzler rebuild Here you go. I found the original high resolution photos on some backup CD's. 0.4 liter and 0.25 liter of SAE 80-90 oil. (Rotzler.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Rotzler.jpg (774KB - 5 downloads) | ||
#174402 - in reply to #174401 | |||
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DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | One More Photo Another in higher resolution. I have more photos, if you want them. Just let me know. (Rotzler2.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Rotzler2.jpg (499KB - 5 downloads) | ||
#174404 - in reply to #174402 | |||
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bram_r Expert Date registered: Apr 2007 Location: the Netherlands Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD Posts: 1659 | Re: Rotzler rebuild Thanks Dutch! That oil service tag is also on my winch, but they overpainted it... With some thinner I may get it visible again. Still, at least I now know what to put into the compartments when the winch is assembled again. gr. Bran | ||
#174428 - in reply to #167768 | |||
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bram_r Expert Date registered: Apr 2007 Location: the Netherlands Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD Posts: 1659 | RE: Rotzler rebuild I now got the winch completely sandblasted and almost ready for a fresh layer of paint. Pics will follow. I was now in the process of ordering some new parts, seals, gaskets and so on from Rotzler. I noticed on the parts sheets I was missing the 'bremsbolzen', part no. 7 on the exploded view below. This together with the bolt, nut and small spring that seems to go with it (17, 12, 9). It looks like this 'bremsbolz' is a sliding contact to the winch drum. Can someone explain me what's the purpose of this part? It's a rather expensive part, so before I order it, I want to know what's it's purpose. Thanks for your help. gr. Bram (bremsbolz.jpg) Attachments ---------------- bremsbolz.jpg (17KB - 6 downloads) | ||
#175376 - in reply to #167768 | |||
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DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | RE: Rotzler rebuild bram_r - 7/31/2010 3:35 PM I now got the winch completely sandblasted and almost ready for a fresh layer of paint. Pics will follow. I was now in the process of ordering some new parts, seals, gaskets and so on from Rotzler. I noticed on the parts sheets I was missing the 'bremsbolzen', part no. 7 on the exploded view below. This together with the bolt, nut and small spring that seems to go with it (17, 12, 9). It looks like this 'bremsbolz' is a sliding contact to the winch drum. Can someone explain me what's the purpose of this part? It's a rather expensive part, so before I order it, I want to know what's it's purpose. Thanks for your help. gr. Bram It is a "braking-bolt" to keep the spool from free-wheeling. The #7 part in your diagram has friction material on the end, which is probably why it is so expensive. It's spring loaded to maintain pressure/friction on the spool. See the attached photo. (Rotzler3.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Rotzler3.jpg (632KB - 5 downloads) | ||
#175377 - in reply to #175376 | |||
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bram_r Expert Date registered: Apr 2007 Location: the Netherlands Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD Posts: 1659 | Re: Rotzler rebuild Thanks again for a lighting quick reply Dutch! Also because of the name I had a hunch what it would be, but didn't realise the winch drum could spool so fast and freely it needed a brake! Bram | ||
#175378 - in reply to #167768 | |||
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jeremyw Elite Veteran Date registered: Apr 2010 Location: Portland, OR Vehicle(s): '03 G500 O'erlanderwagen Posts: 846 | RE: One More Photo DUTCH - 7/4/2010 5:03 PM Another in higher resolution. I have more photos, if you want them. Just let me know. I too have a Rotzler (was factory on my '80 300GD..thanks to Bram and Dutch and Steve@Eurotruck so far for info, esp Bram and Dutch here) but have a few questions; Being new to winches, I'm having a heck of a time understanding the measurements on my Rotzler plate. Sorry for the newb questions; #1 The 10/11/12.5/15 measurements...is that with the black ball lever pulled out one, two, three or four "positions?" #2 The KN(show kN in the above pic) measurement...I was thinking that was knots but 15knots = 25.32ft/sec which is WAY too fast for a winch from what I've seen. What what does KN refer to here? #3 I translated the 7mm "wire" dia, 25m lenth, but what does the 2060N/mm^2(that's a pressure measurement) and 45KN calculate least breach power[rechn Mindestbruchkraft] refer to? #4 What does the "6x19+1SES" style[machart] mean? Pic of my plate;
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#177374 - in reply to #174404 | |||
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DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | RE: One More Photo The black ball lever only has two positions: Locked so that the motor will turn the drum and Unlocked where the drum can free wheel. PS - I was through your town a couple of weeks ago on our way up to the Columbia River Gorge. | ||
#177375 - in reply to #177374 | |||
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jeremyw Elite Veteran Date registered: Apr 2010 Location: Portland, OR Vehicle(s): '03 G500 O'erlanderwagen Posts: 846 | RE: Rotzler rebuild bram_r - 7/4/2010 3:33 PM Today I took the winch apart to have the motor checked out and I thought I could do a little optical restoration in the proces. Next week I'll take the motor to an expert and hopefully he can do some measuring, to see if all windings are all good. A modification what I'm planning to do is to make a ground connection point directly in the motor housing itself. The mounting edges of the motor housing where a little dirty and corroded, so I can imagine it has quite some resistance to the standard ground connection point. Making a ground connection point directly into the motor housing will prevent this, and with such high currents, every gain is useful. Question: - Does any of the Rotzler users here have a maintenance instruction for the winch? - How much and what oil should go in each compartment? Otherwise I'll ask Rotzler for this. Well, some pics of the winch: 1. frame parts of the winch. Will try with a torch to get the dents out of the frame. Then sandblast and have it powdercoated. 2. worm gear cover, text looks more american than german. Seems to me that the winch mechanism indeed is made by Ramsey and Rotzler made the frame and the controls. 3. primary reduction (motor is out). 4. worm gear. 5. winch drum shaft with free spool pins housed in the endcap. 6. winch drum end cap. 7. winch motor, all looked good at first glance. See what the experts have to say! 8. winch motor. The housing is quite thick. As said, I can make a thread in the housing and put in a bolt which holds the ground wire going to the main connector.
Bram's pic here pretty much confirms the Rotzler ER1500 as being a Ramsey, no? (Ramsey is out of Tulsa, OK) | ||
#177378 - in reply to #174399 | |||
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jeremyw Elite Veteran Date registered: Apr 2010 Location: Portland, OR Vehicle(s): '03 G500 O'erlanderwagen Posts: 846 | RE: One More Photo DUTCH - 9/12/2010 3:11 PM The black ball lever only has two positions: Locked so that the motor will turn the drum and Unlocked where the drum can free wheel. PS - I was through your town a couple of weeks ago on our way up to the Columbia River Gorge. Ok, so then what are the 4 circles on the Rotzler plate/schematic signifying as far as winch speed? ie how is the Rotzler put into the 12.5KN "speed?" PS--You were? And you didn't meet up with some of us G-heads? The Gorge is short for Gorgeous, no? ;-) | ||
#177379 - in reply to #177375 | |||
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