jeremyw - 9/12/2010 6:18 PM

PS--You were? And you didn't meet up with some of us G-heads?
The Gorge is short for Gorgeous, no? ;-)

G4Garret - 3/19/2010 7:53 PM

I finally went out and took some pictures of my Land Rover's Ramsey winch, and the Rotlzer pictured in Dutch's photos sure looks like the Ramsey motor, worm and reduction assembly. This leads me to believe that if it is not made by Ramsey, then it's a licensed copy.

Here is a pic from the underside of mine. I couldn't get the camera far enough away to get the whole assembly in the picture. Keeping in mind that the Rotzler is smounted inverted from normal, so the drain, breather and motor terminals are reversed.



And here is the Rotzler





And the Ramsey from the top side. You can see my home-made solenoid box on the left.

jeremyw - 9/13/2010 12:05 AM

I too have a Rotzler (was factory on my '80 300GD..thanks to Bram and Dutch and Steve@Eurotruck so far for info, esp Bram and Dutch here) but have a few questions;

Being new to winches, I'm having a heck of a time understanding the measurements on my Rotzler plate.

Sorry for the newb questions;
#1 The 10/11/12.5/15 measurements...is that with the black ball lever pulled out one, two, three or four "positions?"
#2 The KN(show kN in the above pic) measurement...I was thinking that was knots but 15knots = 25.32ft/sec which is WAY too fast for a winch from what I've seen. What what does KN refer to here?
#3 I translated the 7mm "wire" dia, 25m lenth, but what does the 2060N/mm^2(that's a pressure measurement) and 45KN calculate least breach power[rechn Mindestbruchkraft] refer to?
#4 What does the "6x19+1SES" style[machart] mean?

>

PS--I've heard the Rotzler ER1500's are slow, but reliable. Since my setup has the positive lead cut from the connection plug assembly and no controller, it'll cost ~$1300 to get these from Rotzler...and I don't even know if my winch will actually work then or if it's just been a showpiece on the front. Is anyone using these in real world situations? How does it perform vs your standard Warn XD9000i(which I could buy new for the price of the connection plug/wires and controller!)?? TIA!

bram_r - 9/12/2010 3:50 PM



to answer your questions:
1. the 4 dots represent how many windings of wire are on the drum. Just mechanics, torque = force x leverage. With 4 windings, the leverage is greater, thus force smaller. You can pull 15kN with one winding.
2. kN means kilo-Newton (1000 Newton). Metric way of saying how much force the winch can pull. With an online calculator you can translate the kN to pounds.
3. The N/mm^2 stands for the elastic modulus, see for some background http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastic_modulus or do some googling if you interested
4. I don't know myself either.

Regarding your last question.
From what I've heard the Rotzler are indeed a bit slow. And over 20 years of winch development, I'm sure a new winch from one of the known manufacturers or even cheap Chinese stuff, will pull more and faster than the Rotzler.
It is usable however and it is part of the original look of the G, fits really well.
Too bad you don't have the controller. As you might have seen, the control box is a complete sealed unit, so installing a new connector plug and a universal winch connector may not be so simple.
If I were you, I'd see if I can order the electrical plug as a seperate part at Rotzler and then connect an universal winch controller to it. Or find another connector somewhere that fits in the control box. Good luck.

NorthseaRoughneck - 9/13/2010 6:44 AM

Jeremyw,

#1] Typically, a winch it's maximum rated line pull is quoted with the first layer of wire rope on the winch drum. With every layer of wire rope spooled onto the winch drum your winch becomes less powerful. As a general rule of thumb; for each layer of wire rope on the drum you should deduct 10% off the rated line pull. The figures on your winch plate don't exactly match this 10% rule of thumb but this is where it comes from and as Bram_r stated it all has to do with pretty simple mechanics ... torque = length of the lever arm x force applied.

#2] 1 kN = 224.808943 lbf so 15 kN = 15 x 224.808943 which equals 3372.134146 lbf. That may be, as you've stated, not so much but still sufficient to help you out of trouble. Remember that there is such a thing as "double line" technique which will double your line pull but halve your winching speed by making use of a snatch block. Bear in mind that there's approximately 10% friction loss for every snatch block in use.

#3] The 2060 N/mm^2 refers to the minimum required steel wire rope grade. The term "Grade" is used to designate the strength of the wire rope. Plow steel- ,improved plow steel- and extra improved plow steel wire rope are commonly known grades. Tensile strength (resistance to lengthwise stress) ranges from 220.000 to 260.000 psi for plow steel-, 260.000 to 280.000 psi for improved plow steel- and 280.000 to 310.000 psi for extra improved plow steel wire rope. This means that the minimum required steel wire rope strength grade for your Rotzler winch falls into the EIPS wire rope category (2060 N/mm^2 = 298777,752428 psi).

The 45 KN refers to the minimum breaking load required for the steel wire rope in use. In other words, the steel wire rope should be able to withstand at least 45 KN (10116,402439 lbf) of pulling force before it breaks.

#4] The design of the cable, 6x19+1SES nowadays would be referred to as 6x19S+IWRC. A steel wire rope is build up out of wires, strands and a core. For the required wire rope this means as much as 6 strands of 19 wires each around an independent wire rope core. All this according the 'Seale' type of design for wire rope construction. I could go into detail here but that would be a bit much. Just do the Google thing.

I hope this answers all your questions.

Oh and by the way, I don't even have a winch on my Gs and I've never winched a car in my life so don't hold it against me if I've just 'sold' you some bullshit
My knowledge about wire ropes comes directly from my job on a drilling rig where we use a few different types and sizes.

Regards,

NorthseaRoughneck

G4Garret - 3/19/2010 7:53 PM

I finally went out and took some pictures of my Land Rover's Ramsey winch, and the Rotlzer pictured in Dutch's photos sure looks like the Ramsey motor, worm and reduction assembly. This leads me to believe that if it is not made by Ramsey, then it's a licensed copy.

Here is a pic from the underside of mine. I couldn't get the camera far enough away to get the whole assembly in the picture. Keeping in mind that the Rotzler is smounted inverted from normal, so the drain, breather and motor terminals are reversed.



And here is the Rotzler





And the Ramsey from the top side. You can see my home-made solenoid box on the left.

hus55 - 9/29/2010 9:47 AM

hi there all. just read the write up, really interesting..

but i would much appreciate if someone would comment on the the Rotzler against major brand winches out there like the warn etc..
i am interested to know the advantages and downfalls in comparison.

i would love a Rotzler on the front of the 79 G i am working on ;)

hus55 - 9/29/2010 2:43 PM

silly question guys, pardon my ignorance but does the Rotzler work off the pto :dunce:

DUTCH - 9/29/2010 7:24 AM



The Rotzler looks good and performs well, although extremely slow. If you want the original vintage look, it's the way to go.

If you want performance, go with something newer like a Warn. Warn is now the factory OEM. See the photos of the Swiss Worker I posted on pBase.com.

Marx - 9/30/2010 11:56 AM

Good afternoon G friends
fROM A WARM AND A SUNNY SOUTH AFRICA
i am not familiar with the Rotzler winch at all ,but what i can tell you is the first 1979 300 GD cabriolet imported into South africa came with a winch called a Rottweil winch with a reduction box an extremly strong ,you could winch a G class up a tree .The quality of the cable was so good and very flexible and tough that to date stil in use.i will sent a picture as soon as possible.

G regards

Johann

hus55 - 2/5/2011 4:23 AM

dutch, i noticed a switch on your old 280 GEL . its the 2nd on the right of the ash tray? what is that for ? i recently purchased a very tidy 280 GEL from the uk that has the same style ac,[no vents under the dash.why was it added to G's after 86?] and it has the same switch too :confuzed: