Redbull Addict - 7/5/2011 2:11 PM

I spent this morning running around trying to find a place that would let me weight my truck or weight it for me but no luck. The best I could do is get an appointment for tomorrow morning to get the whole truck corner weighted.

Should I weight it with my gear and without? Any other measurements worth capturing?

hipine - 7/5/2011 4:48 PM



Oh. Well, my only experience with different panhard bars is in relation to what Alan mentions below, strength, not length. That doesn't mean they didn't make different lengths, just that if they did, we I haven't heard of it before. If they did as you say, I'd expect the packages to be lumped into an "SA" number applied together. Maybe you can find evidence of this on a data card, or in the EPC.

I do know that the military Gs that have significantly more axle-to-chassis distance than our civy ones, use a lowered panhard bar (and radius arm for that matter) mounting point on the chassis to maintain optimal near horizontal panhard bar geometry, and not merely increase panhard length to get the axle in the right place. Just more food for thought.

-Dave G.

512bbi - 7/6/2011 2:13 AM

Dave

By using lower mounts they are running a rod that works as a longer one....

hipine - 7/6/2011 9:54 AM



It's much better than that of course, Mario. Changing the mounts also keeps the geometry optimal in a way that a longer or bent rod can't do. Two mounts that are vertically separated can be spanned with a longer rod, but will move the axle more side to side for a given ammount of vertical motion of the axle than will two mounts that are as nearly as possible horizontally in line with one another.

My guess is that the designers considered +/- 3mm of offset of front/rear track alignment to be insignificant on a vehicle of this type and suspension design and so run only one length of panhard bars (one front one rear) across all the civilian spring setups. But that's only a guess. It'll take someone with more at stake in the discussion than me to go digging into authenticating the guess.

Here's another thing to throw into your thought process. If you buy a RHD G, the front panhard bar is reversed to allow for steering linkage, but the rear one is in the same direction as the LHD trucks. So on a RHD, the axles don't move opposite directions with lift, they both offset toward the same side of the truck!

-Dave G.

Redbull Addict - 7/6/2011 11:33 AM

Alright, finally the moment has come...

For my 2002 G500 the total weight without driver is 5554 lbs. Front weight is 2761 and rear is 2793 (can you believe that, a 49.71/50.29 weight distribution)

For a full loaded truck with driver and my gear, the total weight is 5891. Front weight is 2904 and the rear is 2987.

My truck has 111K miles and as far as I can tell the original springs.

Mario - What do you think, are the stock springs enough and its just a matter of a different shock? Different springs and shocks, helper springs and shocks, all of the above?

Thanks for the help!

ewalberg - 7/6/2011 12:54 PM

I think you really should be fixing one problem at a time. At this point there is precious little to suggest you have a a spring problem... and lots to suggest you have a shock problem, if not busted shocks. Other testaments here additionally point to the SPX being sitffer compression damped than stock so that suggests that going with a stiffer spring or bumpers is going to make your problems worse. Softer tires or softer shocks would be necessary.

But if you've a busted shock then maybe you now have a real bottoming out problem... so you've gone from one problem to a completely opposite problem, with an opposite solution, which has people pointing you in the direction of stiffer springs. Which would help but it's only going to serve you for dealing with busted shocks and then ride even stiffer once you get the shock issue resolved? (caveat that with the right shocks it could still ride softer despite stiffer springs)

There's lots of good experience here, and people are obviously eager to help, but honestly you have not even answered enough of my original questions for anybody to be able to give you an educated answer as to what you should do next. That people are not being more careful to confirm the problem you have before offering advice is noteworthy. I don't have enough experience with different G shocks or springs to give you recommendations on which specific items you could/should buy, I'm quite content to leave that for others, but my lifes work is spent solving physical relationship systems type of problems, and i have plenty of both experience and theory with suspension (vehicle and otherise) to be sure that any recommendations you get at this point could leave you frustrated with the results. For example, you could duplicate mario's set-up and hate it because (1) you may have different preferences and (2) you're riding on different tires... he's riding on what he has elsewhere described as much smoother softer riding tires than you.

Sorry if my tone is so cold sounding, it just gets me all bent out of shape when i see people throwing out lots of recommendations for what you should do or need when there really isn't enough info yet to get you a good answer. That's fine when you're trouble shooting a fuel system problem which works or doesn't, but we're talking about a "feel" issue here, which means we need more clarification. The only thing we can be sure of at this point is your trucks weight and that you originally had SPX shocks that ride stiffer than factory (based some on yours and others testaments) for at least what ever adjustment position you had them in. That suggests that you should look for compression adjustable shocks or shocks you know are softer compression damped (though just softer unadjustable shocks could be problematic if you do want stiffer spring ultimately). However, the reality is that you could possible have had the ride you wanted when the SPX were new if you had just switched to Bridgstone deuler revo's of the same size that mario is using)... and i totally agree with his assessment of them.

I'll again extend the offer if you want to come up and either drive mine and/or swap some tires/shocks to see the difference or gain some more perspective on what you have vs. a stock shock setup with my different/softer BFG AT/KO's. I'm not saying you might not want to go with stiffer springs at some point, but i think it would be wisest to get a better handle on what you got/want/need in terms of feel before throwing more money at it. Just trying to help make sure you get the right problem solved... :cheers:

ewalberg - 7/6/2011 4:15 PM

This is also in response to your post above with regard to your experience and how many different set-ups you've run on your truck... by no means do i think you're bragging or boasting. You have run one of the largest variety of different springs, shocks, and tires on the G of anyone on the forum, so i think you have a lot of useful and relevant experience to share, and i think you can eventually point him in the right direction. I'm simply arguing that we do not have enough info yet on what type of feel he's looking for to be sure of which way for you to point him. It's also very possible he has different priorities and preferences than you. So i'm simply arguing that when you tell him "If you drive a set up like this you will never go back"... you are not yet in a position to say this. For example, it seems consensus that the SPX's are stiffer and harsher than the stock shocks, and it appears that he felt they were also too stiff... if the 90's have double the compression damping of the spx's, if we take that fact at face value, it's nearly impossible that he would be happy with the 90's and stiffer springs and elastomers would further worsen the problem. If the problem is actually failing or weak shocks then you could be right on the money.

Redbull Addict - 7/7/2011 6:10 PM

Mario,

Did you have a chance to speak to your parts guy to check if there are indeed different shocks for the 550?

cheers,
Tom

Redbull Addict - 7/11/2011 11:58 PM

Hi Mario,

So did your friend love your red spring with koni 90 shocks combo or decide to stick with the 550 shocks?