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ewikran
Veteran
Date registered: Jan 2009
Location: Tromso, Norway
Vehicle(s): W463 1997 300DT
Posts: 256
| Ball joints
I have replaced all the bushings in the front suspension and had the tie-rod of to do it. I discovered that the ball links on both ends of the tie-rod had pronounced areas if wear. They moved relatively freely in the sockets, but wanted to move to a point where some play could be felt. This is the positions it was when on the car. Anyone that has a fix or is a completely new tie-rod required? The right ball link is crimped to the rod.
How would one determine if the ball links need to be replaced?
How severe can the play be and still not be a problem?
I do not have any vibrations in the steering wheel, which I would suspect due to excessive play. |
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G-AMG
G-Class DIY Host
Date registered: May 2006
Location: South Texas
Vehicle(s): '04 G55, '80 280GE, '99 S420, '98 E320, 2011 E350
| Re: Ball joints
I think the "By the Book" examination method is this:
You "Pinch" the ball joint in-between index finger and thumb, one finger on each side of the ball joint.
Have a helper turn the steering wheel back and forth, WITH FRONT WHEELS ON THE GROUND, AND ENGINE OFF!
There should be "2mm or less" vertical movement of the joint, as felt between your fingers.
"HOW" you measure this? Heck if I know. I imagine it's just a "Guess-ti-ma-tion" |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Ball joints
I get someone to move the steering wheel left and right while I am lying under the front of the truck and look for play at each tie rod end and drag link. If there is movement, that is the joint does not move as a whole then the joint needs replacing. You can see when there is play and you can feel it in your hand. If there is play then the front end will wander because the toe in is incorrect and changing. The whole thing works together to keep the wheels straight and true as it steers. When one of more of the ends is loose then the steering will be vague and it will wander and hook up with irregularities in the road. The drag link will have to be changed as a unit if it is loose, the others have opposite threads so adjustments can be made and it is best to buy them in pairs because one has right hand thread and the other left. The tie rod works like a turnbuckle so fine adjustment can be made on the toe in on the truck and alignment can be set.
-Dai |
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ewikran
Veteran
Date registered: Jan 2009
Location: Tromso, Norway
Vehicle(s): W463 1997 300DT
Posts: 256
| Re: Ball joints
Thanks for your replies.
Driving it today I discovered that it made a clinking sound at times when driving/swing. At standstill engine on and turning the clinking is always there. Something is not correct and this will be changed - asap. I really don't want this to pop loose when driving. |
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djdinaz
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Arizona
Vehicle(s): 03 G55
Posts: 439
| Re: Ball joints
I experienced the same thing.. clunk noise turning the wheel and it felt like something was grinding when steering from one direction to the other..
Replaced all of the rod ends, still had the same behavior. Inspected CVs (but issue wasn't speed dependant), inspected wheel bearing play, then started replacing suspension components. The last item I replaced corrected the behavior, and that was the panhard rod bushings.
What I noticed w/ the old rod and bushings was that at a standstill, I could get a mm or so of vertical play, and anytime the front end got wet -- carwash or puddle, the clunk got worse. After the panhard rod change, it drives as good as new, no clunk, no grind, nothing. |
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ewikran
Veteran
Date registered: Jan 2009
Location: Tromso, Norway
Vehicle(s): W463 1997 300DT
Posts: 256
| Re: Ball joints
I have no grinding sound, only one snap/click/clunk when tuning in one direction and the same when turning the opposite again. The panhard bushing is the only position where I didn't install new ones, but I have the new ones and maybe should make the swap just to be sure. The sound appeared just one day after fitting all together after having the tie-rod of and I suspect that I have managed to rotate one of the balls out of its usual placement resulting in the sound. I will have someone turning the steering wheel with me under the car trying to see and feel where things are happening. |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Ball joints
I would jack up the front of the truck and support it on jack stands. Then grab a front wheel at 12 o'clock and six o'clock with your hands. Try to push in at the top while you pull out at the bottom and then use the opposite action. Is there play? If there is more than the very tiniest play the truck has a wheel bearing issue. That is going to have the symptom you describe of noise while you are turning because you are loading the bearings with lateral force. Richard C came to my place with bearings that were scary loose to the point the brake caliper was being grazed by the brake rotor in turns. Yikes! Doing this test is fast and easy. It will eliminate that problem if they are tight. It will reveal a problem if it is there and addressing it early can save major expense in damaged parts. It means a front wheel bearing service if in fact there is a lot of play. Do not attempt to tighten the adjusting nuts to tighten the play, that will almost guarantee an expensive catastrophic failure involving expensive parts.
-Dai |
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thanito
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2009
Location: Greece
Vehicle(s): MB G400CDI, MB 300E-24, Mini Cooper S
Posts: 253
| Re: Ball joints
I have once changed the tie rod end because of this clicking sound. There should be some play ,especially when this clicking sound occurs, you will see the bar "jumping" a bit.
Before changing the tie rod end though, you should try and tighten all the steering bolts, because they might be responsible too.
BR,
Thanos |
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ewikran
Veteran
Date registered: Jan 2009
Location: Tromso, Norway
Vehicle(s): W463 1997 300DT
Posts: 256
| Re: Ball joints
In my case it was the ball joints on the steering link that was making the clicking sound. Both ends are now changed and it had a noticeable effect on the steering feel. It now are much more precise so the replacement was due. I only have to do a fine adjustments of the length of the steering link to get the steering wheel to centre correctly. |
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geewag
Regular
Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Tallahassee, FL. - USA
Vehicle(s): --2002 G500 / 2014 MDX / 2004 V70 2.5T Wagon...
Posts: 59
| RE: Ball joints
Good thread. All 4 of my ball joints look like this:
How hard of a job is this? Taking into account I may have to get the G aligned afterward.
Or, how much should I expect to pay to replace all 4?
Thank you.
 (image.jpg)
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 image.jpg (108KB - 0 downloads)
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Ball joints
geewag - 4/9/2014 7:53 PM
Good thread. All 4 of my ball joints look like this:
How hard of a job is this? Taking into account I may have to get the G aligned afterward.
Or, how much should I expect to pay to replace all 4?
Thank you.
Not hard, if you have the right ball joint remover.
You can't replace just the ball joints. You'll need to do the tie rod and drag link too, since the ball joints on one end are not removable.
If you'll subscribe to the EPV, you can look up the individual parts; and then plug the part numbers into a number of different websites to find pricing.
The only thing you should have to pay to have done is the toe-in adjustment.
Attached are a couple of shots of the tie rod.
 (TieRod1.jpg)
 (TieRod2.jpg)
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TieRod1.jpg (309KB - 0 downloads)
TieRod2.jpg (771KB - 0 downloads)
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geewag
Regular
Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Tallahassee, FL. - USA
Vehicle(s): --2002 G500 / 2014 MDX / 2004 V70 2.5T Wagon...
Posts: 59
| Re: Ball joints
Much appreciated. I remember when I first bought my Land Rover I had to do this but my friend was more experienced and I was looking over his shoulder many moons ago.
Does the front of the vehicle need to be lifted off the ground or can you do it level?
Can you recommend a good ball joint puller? Meaning, is this an area where a MB specific tool is what's required?
Thanks again DUTCHMaster!
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: Ball joints
geewag - 4/9/2014 8:09 PM
Much appreciated. I remember when I first bought my Land Rover I had to do this but my friend was more experienced and I was looking over his shoulder many moons ago.
Does the front of the vehicle need to be lifted off the ground or can you do it level?
Can you recommend a good ball joint puller? Meaning, is this an area where a MB specific tool is what's required?
Thanks again DUTCHMaster!
On the ground is A-OK.
I have the MB tool, but it doesn't have to be. It just needs to be very stout as those studs are in there very tight. I would not recommend the hammer and fork type, although some folks have used them. I just don't like beating on the steering components. |
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geewag
Regular
Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Tallahassee, FL. - USA
Vehicle(s): --2002 G500 / 2014 MDX / 2004 V70 2.5T Wagon...
Posts: 59
| RE: Ball joints
Ok... almost there. You gave me the push I needed to get off the iPad and back on my PC.
Basically, I need:
The ball joint PULLER: 601 589 04 33 00
The Tie Rod Assembly: 463 330 04 03
The Drag Link Assembly: 463 463 11 15
And I'm good to go? (of course I have a decent set of tools... I'm guessing lock-tite goes on these bad-boys)
---->>> One other thing I found confusing is, say for instance, the Drag Link Assembly via the EPC parts diagram and number, shows the part # as the whole assembly (I think), yet it gives part numbers for all the other pieces. Or do I need those pieces? (yikes)
Same thing for the Tie Rod assembly, if I just go for the part I listed above, does it include both ends? (probably the best way I could put it)
I just don't want to have the entire thing apart and then go 'Damn', I missed something. Or order it and not get everything I need in the box.
THANKS!
 (draglink.jpg)
 (tierod.jpg)
Attachments
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draglink.jpg (43KB - 1 downloads)
tierod.jpg (25KB - 1 downloads)
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Ball joints
No locktite needed, the nuts that matter have cotter pins. Those clamps on the rods are under little stress.
As to the EPC. Assemblies are either shown whole, or as a kit where the individual parts in the kit are tied to the kit item number with thin lines. See item 125 (below) which includee all the parts of a diesel injector except the nozzle.
Edited by AlanMcR 4/9/2014 11:13 PM
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Cap1.jpg (86KB - 0 downloads)
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geewag
Regular
Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Tallahassee, FL. - USA
Vehicle(s): --2002 G500 / 2014 MDX / 2004 V70 2.5T Wagon...
Posts: 59
| Re: Ball joints
Gotcha... Thanks & thanks for the info on the locktite.
I just want to make sure there's nothing else I needed. I'm getting less and less scared of maintenance/repairs on this truck; yet I am still absolutely amazed with it.
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: Ball joints
I had a tie rod once pop when the steering was operated left to right by a full turn but it felt normal with the steering was moved left to right with the engine of to test as required.
It was doing the clicking sound also.
Funny is I never needed any more replacements for the last 60k off road.
Mario |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Ball joints
I can't speak to the drag link, but the tie rod comes complete with both ball joints.
The ball joints for the drag link can be had separately. One is a right hand thread and the other is left hand. EuroTruck has the OEM, but non-MB branded, drag link ball joints for less money than the MB branded parts from the dealer. |
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Inkblotz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
| RE: Ball joints
Any cheap NAPA or Pep Boys tie rod puller will do.
Mark
 (Tie rod.jpg)
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Tie rod.jpg (27KB - 0 downloads)
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Balto
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 368
| Re: Ball joints
Newb question.....but when should I be looking to do the Tie for and ball joint work? Haha I have no idea if it needs to be done now or not. I'm at about 110k miles. |
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