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G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump
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Posted 9/21/2011 11:29 AM
MiN
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: May 2006
Location: Alpujarras, Spain
Vehicle(s): No cars, at all.
Posts: 555
500
G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

I've just finished doing a B service on the G55 with the addition of replacing the front CVs, bearings, seals and discs (lovely job) - got the CVs from Eurotruck at a significant saving on the full axle shaft. There had been an intermittant problem with the rear diff lock not engaging swiflty and then dropping out after a few moments. Doing the service gave me the chance to investigate, thinking it may be a fluid or vacuum leak problem.

With the rear axle on stands I turned the ignition on, but without starting the engine, and pressed the centre and rear locker switches expecting to hear the hum of the pump. Nothing. Checked the connections and checked the voltage to the pump and all was ok. Simple conclusion was that it was the pump. Tried a direct connection and again nothing. Disconnected it and took it off and pulled it apart and could do nothing or see nothing to fix.

The solution, obviously, was to order a pump and I managed to get the only one currently in the country. Suffice it to say, the new one worked and the diff locks engaged faultlessly. Why am I making a deal of this? Well, the pump on my 12 year old G500 with 400,100km has never ceased to work and has been used a lot more than the 6 year old 150,000km G55's. Part number for the G55 and G500 is 463 550 01 83. A Hella part made in the US.
#194886
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Author
Posted 9/21/2011 12:48 PM
fernweh



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
2000
RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

MiN - 9/21/2011 8:29 AM

I've just finished doing a B service on the G55 with the addition of replacing the front CVs, bearings, seals and discs (lovely job) - got the CVs from Eurotruck at a significant saving on the full axle shaft. There had been an intermittant problem with the rear diff lock not engaging swiflty and then dropping out after a few moments. Doing the service gave me the chance to investigate, thinking it may be a fluid or vacuum leak problem.

With the rear axle on stands I turned the ignition on, but without starting the engine, and pressed the centre and rear locker switches expecting to hear the hum of the pump. Nothing. Checked the connections and checked the voltage to the pump and all was ok. Simple conclusion was that it was the pump. Tried a direct connection and again nothing. Disconnected it and took it off and pulled it apart and could do nothing or see nothing to fix.

The solution, obviously, was to order a pump and I managed to get the only one currently in the country. Suffice it to say, the new one worked and the diff locks engaged faultlessly. Why am I making a deal of this? Well, the pump on my 12 year old G500 with 400,100km has never ceased to work and has been used a lot more than the 6 year old 150,000km G55's. Part number for the G55 and G500 is 463 550 01 83. A Hella part made in the US.


Welcome to the club.....

my vacuum pump lasted 130K miles, and the little motor was just fried. After I had ordered the OEM part for some big bucks, my friend Alan did send me a link to a very inexpensive little vacuum pump - just for $12.00 .
Now I have two more little pumps living the good life in my garage....

Karl
#194888 - in reply to #194886
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Posted 9/21/2011 1:57 PM
4x4abc



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
5000
RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

Karl,

why not share the source for the little inexpensive pump with us?
would love to get one before mine fails
#194892 - in reply to #194888
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Posted 9/21/2011 2:33 PM
ewalberg
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
1000
Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

You may still want to investigate a vacuum leak in your system becuase i have often enough used my front and rear lockers only (so the vacuum pump doesn't turn on) and they pull in and stay on just fine. This is assuming though that a supercharged motor doesn't adversely affect the natural varcuum that N/A (naturally aspirated) motors produce.
#194894 - in reply to #194886
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Posted 9/21/2011 3:31 PM
fernweh



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
2000
RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

4x4abc - 9/21/2011 10:57 AM

Karl,

why not share the source for the little inexpensive pump with us?
would love to get one before mine fails


Harald,

I really wanted to post a picture of them, but I couldn't figure out how to erase the part number from it, others do so well

Let me try it again....

Karl
#194898 - in reply to #194892
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Author
Posted 9/21/2011 3:48 PM
fernweh



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
2000
RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

Here's the info:

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10398



(Pump Picture.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Pump Picture.jpg (56KB - 1 downloads)
#194899 - in reply to #194886
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Posted 9/21/2011 4:13 PM
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
5000
RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

fernweh - 9/21/2011 3:48 PM

Here's the info:

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10398


Will it last in the under hood engine heat?

According to the Spec Sheet, max operating temperature is 120°F. It gets a lot hotter than that under my engine hood.
#194902 - in reply to #194899
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Posted 9/21/2011 5:06 PM
djdinaz
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Arizona
Vehicle(s): 03 G55
Posts: 439
300
Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

The one on the truck looks <i>very</i> similar to the Hella H81953021 (a picture is in this PDF: http://www.kartek.com/Media/Catalogs/2011/HellaElectricsCatalog11.p... on page 77). It has an operating range of -25 to +96 C, and can be had online for under 80.



(H81953021.jpg)



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Attachments H81953021.jpg (14KB - 0 downloads)
#194907 - in reply to #194886
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Posted 9/21/2011 5:39 PM
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
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Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

djdinaz - 9/21/2011 5:06 PM

The one on the truck looks very similar to the Hella H81953021 (a picture is in this PDF: http://www.kartek.com/Media/Catalogs/2011/HellaElectricsCatalog11.p... on page 77). It has an operating range of -25 to +96 C, and can be had online for under 80.


Looks identical to mine. Can you reference an on line source for the "under 80"price?
#194911 - in reply to #194907
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Posted 9/21/2011 6:17 PM
djdinaz
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Arizona
Vehicle(s): 03 G55
Posts: 439
300
Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

http://www.discountfleetsupply.com/helh81953021.html is the first place I saw it w/ a price.

Though looking @ the pic on Vlads site, the connector is different. It's probably more similar to H81953011 which accepts the female terminal connector.

Edited by djdinaz 9/21/2011 6:38 PM
#194915 - in reply to #194911
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Posted 9/21/2011 6:33 PM
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
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Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

djdinaz - 9/21/2011 6:17 PM

http://www.discountfleetsupply.com/helh81953021.html is the first place I saw it w/ a price.


TYVM!
#194917 - in reply to #194915
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Author
Posted 9/21/2011 8:14 PM
fernweh



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
2000
Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

DUTCH - 9/21/2011 2:39 PM

djdinaz - 9/21/2011 5:06 PM

The one on the truck looks very similar to the Hella H81953021 (a picture is in this PDF: http://www.kartek.com/Media/Catalogs/2011/HellaElectricsCatalog11.p... on page 77). It has an operating range of -25 to +96 C, and can be had online for under 80.


Looks identical to mine. Can you reference an on line source for the "under 80"price?


Are you sure Dutch?

Beside being schwarz wie die Nacht my 130K mile vacuum pump sure looks different.

It is a shame, after installing the new pump, I didn't even have time to try the lockers out. No patch of dirt in my near future.

Anybody can confirm, that the vacuum pump runs all the time when the center diff lock is active, is there a pressure switch built-in?

Maybe Erik has a valid point checking for vacuum leaks - look at that poor black fried motor.

Karl



(IMG_5965.JPG)



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#194926 - in reply to #194911
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Posted 9/21/2011 10:37 PM
shochu
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Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Vehicle(s): indonesian-assembled '97 G300
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Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

i'm in the middle of sorting out this problem as we speak

i've had disconnected vacuum line on 2 separate occasions
on the second time, still no vacuum after it's reconnected, turned out that the membrane/diaphragm in the transfer case has a small tear, causing the middle lock not being able to engage
middle solenoid was also kind of kaput, able to spin, witched it with the front lock solenoid

mechanic changed the membrane, still having difficulty
opened it up again, turned out it was not installed correctly
re-install, worked flawlessly when i tested them last friday
tried it again on monday, will not engage at all

opened it up again yesterday, membrane was torn in 3 different places
again, we suspected installation problems
the inside of the housing was thoroughly cleaned this time, membrane vaselined a bit
& reinstalled by the workshop's head mechanic

i'll try it out again over the next few days to see whether it's fixed for good
never crossed my mind that this 'simple' vacuum & hydraulic system is giving this much resistance.

now i kind of wished for the basic cable & hydraulic system of the 460
although i suppose the cable too could snap, as my even bigger handbrake cable snapped a while back

Edited by shochu 9/21/2011 11:27 PM
#194934 - in reply to #194886
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Posted 9/21/2011 11:13 PM
W5YK
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Date registered: May 2006
Location: San Diego
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500, Unimog U2450,
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Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

fernweh - 9/21/2011 5:14 PM

Anybody can confirm, that the vacuum pump runs all the time when the center diff lock is active, is there a pressure switch built-in?

Karl


Karl - that is correct, if the engine is running.
If the engine is turned off, the pump will stop after 30 seconds or so.
There is a pressure switch built in. But with the engine running, you never get there.
The vacuum pump is wired in parallel with the center locker air solenoid, there is no separate pin for it on the switch pack.
The 30 second delay after engine off comes from the switch pack I think, not from the pressure switch. Not certain, will check.

#194935 - in reply to #194926
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Posted 9/21/2011 11:27 PM
fernweh



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
2000
Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

W5YK - 9/21/2011 8:13 PM

fernweh - 9/21/2011 5:14 PM

Anybody can confirm, that the vacuum pump runs all the time when the center diff lock is active, is there a pressure switch built-in?

Karl


Karl - that is correct, if the engine is running.
If the engine is turned off, the pump will stop after 30 seconds or so.
There is a pressure switch built in. But with the engine running, you never get there.
The vacuum pump is wired in parallel with the center locker air solenoid, there is no separate pin for it on the switch pack.
The 30 second delay after engine off comes from the switch pack I think, not from the pressure switch. Not certain, will check.



Thank you Richard,

I was looking for a reason that I burned up the motor......I like to drive in the dirt with the center locker on, to protect the more sensitive differential in the TC and to have the ABS off.

That means the vacuum pump was running for a real extended time, if it doesn't being switched off by its pressure switch. Probably, I have to use my ABS off switch instead.

Karl
#194936 - in reply to #194935
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Posted 9/22/2011 12:30 AM
4x4abc



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
5000
Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

I though along Richard's lines - pump runs when the engine is on and the center diff is locked
wanted to confirm it an hour ago

surprise - my pump is dead as well
more surprise - all diffs locks as they should

engine vacuum?
meaning the pump is not really needed?
#194938 - in reply to #194886
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Posted 9/22/2011 1:00 AM
Razon



Date registered: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vehicle(s): 1986 280ge Cabrio, 617A, 5sp manual
500
Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

shochu - 9/21/2011 7:37 PM
now i kind of wished for the basic cable & hydraulic system of the 460
although i suppose the cable too could snap, as my even bigger handbrake cable snapped a while back


There are no cables in a 460. Hydraulic only.

Anyway,
If you guys are looking for replacements, you should try to match the flow capacity (liters/min) and the duty cycle of the original pump (especially if you think it's meant to run all the time).
Also, if you could find a more robust design (piston type for example). Rubber membrane just isn't meant to last, but you probably won't be able to beat the cost. (they did the same with the vacuum pumps on the early diesels...first they used membrane type, then they upgraded to piston type)

Also, as a "backup" you guys could run a line from the intake manifold to the pump with an inline check valve (one way valve) (use T connectors at both ends. If you would go the extra lenght to install a vacuum reservoir, you would probably rarely ever need the pump.

Edit: Harald mentioned the same thing while I was writing the reply....maybe it's allready done like that from the factory. Doesn't the manual show a vacuum diagram?


Edited by Razon 9/22/2011 1:05 AM
#194940 - in reply to #194934
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Posted 9/22/2011 2:19 AM
fernweh



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
2000
Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

4x4abc - 9/21/2011 9:30 PM

I though along Richard's lines - pump runs when the engine is on and the center diff is locked
wanted to confirm it an hour ago

surprise - my pump is dead as well
more surprise - all diffs locks as they should

engine vacuum?
meaning the pump is not really needed?


Maybe you have a better vacuum already, no leaks, no chattered membrane.

my diff locks worked in Colorado at the star trails, a bit slow, but they engaged with the probably already burned out pump then.

little correction: pumps runs when the ignition is on and the center diff is activated, doesn't need to be locked.

Karl
#194943 - in reply to #194938
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Posted 9/22/2011 6:39 AM
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
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Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

Razon - 9/22/2011 1:00 AM

Also, if you could find a more robust design (piston type for example). Rubber membrane just isn't meant to last, but you probably won't be able to beat the cost. (they did the same with the vacuum pumps on the early diesels...first they used membrane type, then they upgraded to piston type)

Also, as a "backup" you guys could run a line from the intake manifold to the pump with an inline check valve (one way valve) (use T connectors at both ends. If you would go the extra lenght to install a vacuum reservoir, you would probably rarely ever need the pump.

Edit: Harald mentioned the same thing while I was writing the reply....maybe it's allready done like that from the factory. Doesn't the manual show a vacuum diagram?


The membrane Shochu mentioned is inside the transfer case.

The engine vacuum line is already part of the system. See attached.



(DiffLocks.jpg)



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Attachments DiffLocks.jpg (64KB - 6 downloads)
#194950 - in reply to #194940
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Posted 9/22/2011 9:33 AM
Roly
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
Vehicle(s): 1999 G500
Posts: 661
500
Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump

The 30 s power comes from a relay on the pre 2000 Gs. You can here it click off after the key is turned off.
There appears to be a slight difference between the setup on the pre and post 2000 Gs or at least with mine there is. On the vacuum pump there is a pressure switch. On the diagram that Dutch posted it indicates two pipes connected to it. One connected to the white and the other to the black. On my G there is only the one pipe going to the black connector. This means that when the pressure in my system reaches the preset presure the pump switches off. Once the diff locks are actuated there is no flow through the system (ignoring leaks). So the small electric pump and the reservoir is fine to keep the vacuum correct and hold the locks on. The non return valve stops the vacuum disappearing when the manifold vacuum changes.

Here's any easy test- disconnect the second pipe on the white connector on the pressure switch. Seal the hole in the pipe. Turn on the key (don't startengine) press the centre difflock and the little pump will start. Wait until the preset vacuum is reached and it will switch off about 30-40 secs. No more burning out the pump
#194957 - in reply to #194935
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