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Redbull Addict Veteran Date registered: May 2006 Location: Morgan Hill, California USA Vehicle(s): '12 G550 Posts: 171 | Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump I was casually following this thread but this past weekend on a trip to the sierras, I noticed that my rear and front lockers took noticeable longer to engage and on one occasion unlocked. I actually replaced my vacuum pump a few months ago. I also noticed that the lid for the hydraulic reservoir holding the brake fluid was cracked with a 2mm gap all around. The fluid looks dark. | ||
#195341 - in reply to #194886 | |||
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DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump Redbull Addict - 10/5/2011 1:39 AM I was casually following this thread but this past weekend on a trip to the sierras, I noticed that my rear and front lockers took noticeable longer to engage and on one occasion unlocked. I actually replaced my vacuum pump a few months ago. I also noticed that the lid for the hydraulic reservoir holding the brake fluid was cracked with a 2mm gap all around. The fluid looks dark. Time to flush and bleed. Get a new cap while you're at it. Attachments ---------------- Diff_Lock_Bleed.pdf (81KB - 30 downloads) | ||
#195345 - in reply to #195341 | |||
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Redbull Addict Veteran Date registered: May 2006 Location: Morgan Hill, California USA Vehicle(s): '12 G550 Posts: 171 | Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump Thanks for the pdf, Dutch! Yea, the dealer had a new cap in stock, now I just need to figure out whether to do it myself (I'll need the equipment) or take to a mechanic. | ||
#195371 - in reply to #194886 | |||
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DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump Redbull Addict - 10/5/2011 8:27 PM Thanks for the pdf, Dutch! Yea, the dealer had a new cap in stock, now I just need to figure out whether to do it myself (I'll need the equipment) or take to a mechanic. The Motive Power Bleeder works great at the right price (circa 30 minutes of shop time). You can do your brakes, too. Should be done every two years. http://store.motiveproducts.com/european-bleeder--0100-p34.aspx | ||
#195384 - in reply to #195371 | |||
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W5YK Extreme Veteran Date registered: May 2006 Location: San Diego Vehicle(s): 2002 G500, Unimog U2450, Posts: 543 | Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump I had the same thing with my filler cap - a nice crack all the way round almost. I wonder why that happens? In a pinch, you can use a normal german brake filler cap like any VW/Merc and others use. | ||
#195387 - in reply to #194886 | |||
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fernweh Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa | Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump W5YK - 10/6/2011 5:45 AM I had the same thing with my filler cap - a nice crack all the way round almost. I wonder why that happens? In a pinch, you can use a normal german brake filler cap like any VW/Merc and others use. Same thing happened with my cap, almost identical. Got one from a Pep Boys Store and haven't gone back to a OEM one yet Karl | ||
#195389 - in reply to #195387 | |||
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fernweh Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa | RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump A diff lock vacuum system update. Finally back under the engine hood on my G-500 and connecting the new vacuum test gauge to see what's going on. I connected the test gauge just ahead of the front axle diff locker solenoid and first checked for the vacuum "engine only running" = 50 cmHg then switched on the aux vacuum pump and the vacuum increased to 55 cmHg. I did wait for a little bit but the aux vacuum pump would not switch off. and kept running. When I shut down the engine the vacuum bled off rather quickly, and I didn't like that at all. All the lines were in good shape and connected correctly. I started my troubleshooting at the main vacuum line from the engine to the brake booster and found the vacuum connection to the diff lock system. Short after the T-connector was a check valve installed, it took a bit time to take that valve off as the hoses seemed to be clued on. Using my God given test equipment, I notice that the check valve was stuck open, but with some few blow & suck exercises the valve finally start to work again. Now a new vacuum test - engine running only = 50 cmHg, switching on the center diff (aux vacuum pump runs now) = 65 cmHg Turning the engine off, the aux pump runs for a few second longer and shuts down. The test gauge doesn't show a loss of vacuum! Now, 30 minutes later, I checked the gauge again and the vacuum dropped down to 60 cmHg - not bad at all. The only problem is, the aux vacuum pump does not shut off be itself, even after getting to 65 cmHg. Karl Edited by fernweh 10/30/2011 6:25 PM (Faulty Check Valve.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Faulty Check Valve.jpg (85KB - 4 downloads) | ||
#196295 - in reply to #194886 | |||
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DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump fernweh - 10/30/2011 6:24 PM A diff lock vacuum system update. Karl Sehr gut, mein Herr! | ||
#196297 - in reply to #196295 | |||
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fernweh Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa | RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump DUTCH - 10/30/2011 3:48 PM fernweh - 10/30/2011 6:24 PM A diff lock vacuum system update. Karl Sehr gut, mein Herr! The saga continues..... pressure switch in the vacuum pump from Hella is not switching correctly. Harald took my old pump apart to show me the two pin versa three pin electrical connection. The bottom plate with the pressure switch come off easy and the switch assembly is connected with two tiny stake-on connectors. Well, the old switch is doing its thing when connected to the 65 cmHg vacuum - have to bring the "new" pump back to the MB dealer. Just in case nobody knows how the system is supposed to work, I have printed that page, where it reads: pumps runs, until vacuum reaches approx 550 mbar. Karl | ||
#196298 - in reply to #196297 | |||
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DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump fernweh - 10/30/2011 7:20 PM Just in case nobody knows how the system is supposed to work, I have printed that page, where it reads: pumps runs, until vacuum reaches approx 550 mbar. Karl Only when the engine is not running. When the engine is running, the pump runs continuously. Stupid, but that's the way it is designed. | ||
#196299 - in reply to #196298 | |||
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fernweh Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa | RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump DUTCH - 10/30/2011 5:10 PM fernweh - 10/30/2011 7:20 PM Just in case nobody knows how the system is supposed to work, I have printed that page, where it reads: pumps runs, until vacuum reaches approx 550 mbar. Karl Only when the engine is not running. When the engine is running, the pump runs continuously. Stupid, but that's the way it is designed. I'm so very sorry, but that isn't correct. The aux vacuum pump has a pressure switch built in, which is opening a contact when the "off" setting is reached and shut off the pump. If the vacuum in the diff lock system has been depleted down to the "on" setting the pump will run again. Power to the pump is supplied with ignition ON and the center diff lock switch activated. If the center diff switch is still being activated after the ignition has been switched OFF, the aux vacuum pump will run for a few more seconds and then stops. Also the center diff lock switch is provide with electrical power after the ignition has been turned off - not sure if it will go OFF together with the vacuum pump or stays on for a bit longer. The front and rear diff locker switches are staying energized, even when the ignition is off - on our modified switch packs for ever and on the stock OEM ones until the center switch drops out. Karl (IMG_5984.JPG) Attachments ---------------- IMG_5984.JPG (96KB - 0 downloads) | ||
#196301 - in reply to #196299 | |||
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W5YK Extreme Veteran Date registered: May 2006 Location: San Diego Vehicle(s): 2002 G500, Unimog U2450, Posts: 543 | Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump Karl, I had the same check valve go bad on my G500. I could not get the hoses off it, so I bought new hoses and new check valve. Those check valves do not like getting dust and dirt in them, which is exactly what they receive if there is a leak somewhere, sucking all the available dirt into the system. Mercedes says in one of those slides that the pump runs continuously with the engine running. I think they must have selected the pressure switch setting at a point where the engine never makes that much vacuum when running, but the little pump can make it if the engine is stopped. As you said, the power is always supplied to that little pump (if center locker selected) regardless of engine running or not. There is no logic in the switch pack for this, just the pressure switch. I will stop before I get confused. I wish they had made it simpler. | ||
#196302 - in reply to #194886 | |||
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fernweh Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa | Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump W5YK - 10/30/2011 6:38 PM Karl, I had the same check valve go bad on my G500. I could not get the hoses off it, so I bought new hoses and new check valve. Those check valves do not like getting dust and dirt in them, which is exactly what they receive if there is a leak somewhere, sucking all the available dirt into the system. Mercedes says in one of those slides that the pump runs continuously with the engine running. I think they must have selected the pressure switch setting at a point where the engine never makes that much vacuum when running, but the little pump can make it if the engine is stopped. As you said, the power is always supplied to that little pump (if center locker selected) regardless of engine running or not. There is no logic in the switch pack for this, just the pressure switch. I will stop before I get confused. I wish they had made it simpler. Richard, thanks for your comments......it made me look again at the old pressure switch. There are actually two small adjustment screws with tiny hex heads - whoa....I just love it. Now I see can the light at the end of that vacuum tunnel.... Karl | ||
#196303 - in reply to #196302 | |||
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DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump fernweh - 10/30/2011 9:11 PM DUTCH - 10/30/2011 5:10 PM fernweh - 10/30/2011 7:20 PM Just in case nobody knows how the system is supposed to work, I have printed that page, where it reads: pumps runs, until vacuum reaches approx 550 mbar. Karl Only when the engine is not running. When the engine is running, the pump runs continuously. Stupid, but that's the way it is designed. I'm so very sorry, but that isn't correct. Karl MB, apparently, seems to disagree with you. Seems strange, but that's what they describe. See attached. (VacuumPump.jpg) Attachments ---------------- VacuumPump.jpg (152KB - 1 downloads) | ||
#196311 - in reply to #196301 | |||
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fernweh Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa | RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump DUTCH - 10/31/2011 4:43 AM fernweh - 10/30/2011 9:11 PM DUTCH - 10/30/2011 5:10 PM fernweh - 10/30/2011 7:20 PM Just in case nobody knows how the system is supposed to work, I have printed that page, where it reads: pumps runs, until vacuum reaches approx 550 mbar. Karl Only when the engine is not running. When the engine is running, the pump runs continuously. Stupid, but that's the way it is designed. I'm so very sorry, but that isn't correct. Karl MB, apparently, seems to disagree with you. Seems strange, but that's what they describe. See attached. Well, I do have to retract my statement..... After a throughout bench test of the vacuum pump system, I did find out that the pump actually switched off by the pressure switch when reached a vacuum value, and got switched back on when the vacuum got depleted. However, installed back in the car, the vacuum pump would not turn off when hooked up and the engine was running. The second vacuum line connected to the pump apparently is an engine vacuum line, and must create a some kind of a vacuum equilibrium inside the pump rendering the pressure switch inop. Interestingly, the vacuum pump ON & OFF cycling because of the pressure switch, would only occur when the engine is off, but ignition is on and the center diff lock switch has been activated. Reviewing all my test results, I must say the statement in the diff lock manual is correct. Karl | ||
#196316 - in reply to #196311 | |||
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W5YK Extreme Veteran Date registered: May 2006 Location: San Diego Vehicle(s): 2002 G500, Unimog U2450, Posts: 543 | RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump fernweh - 10/31/2011 9:41 AM Interestingly, the vacuum pump ON & OFF cycling because of the pressure switch, would only occur when the engine is off, but ignition is on and the center diff lock switch has been activated. I think that is correct. So why did they bother with this pressure switch? Who cares about diff lockers when the engine is off? Is it just to protect the system from too much vacuum? | ||
#196318 - in reply to #196316 | |||
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Roly Elite Veteran Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Australia Vehicle(s): 1999 G500 Posts: 661 | RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump Karl, When you connect the second pipe to the white connector on the vacuum pump and the engine is running , the vacuum in the pressure switch is "reduced " to that of the engine which is not sufficient to turn off the pump. And the engine will never make enough vacuum to switch it off, thus it runs always with engine on. On my 1999 the white line to the engine is not connected at the factory, so the pump switches off. Pleased that you have found you leak. | ||
#196320 - in reply to #196316 | |||
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fernweh Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa | RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump Roly - 10/31/2011 11:23 AM Karl, When you connect the second pipe to the white connector on the vacuum pump and the engine is running , the vacuum in the pressure switch is "reduced " to that of the engine which is not sufficient to turn off the pump. And the engine will never make enough vacuum to switch it off, thus it runs always with engine on. On my 1999 the white line to the engine is not connected at the factory, so the pump switches off. Pleased that you have found you leak. My bench test results indicated that the vacuum pump cycled ON &OFF at about 413 mbar (31cmHg) That was the same value I got when the pump was reinstalled and reconnected to the truck - engine not running but ignition ON and center diff lock switch ON. The test gauge was connected to the vacuum line just before the front axle's diff lock solenoid - no other check valve inline but the one at the main vacuum line. The other measured vacuum values: engine running, no aux vacuum pump = 666 mbar (50cmHg) engine running, with aux vacuum pump = 866 mbar (65cmHg) When the engine was running and the aux pump was activated and also running, I was not able to control the aux pump's pressure switch with an external vacuum source in order to turn off the pump. Karl | ||
#196328 - in reply to #196320 | |||
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Aircruiser Extreme Veteran Date registered: Aug 2011 Location: Atlanta GA Vehicle(s): 2000 G500, 1986 300GD, 2017 Porsche Cayenne Hybrid Posts: 364 | Re: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump So all this talk about failed lockers has jinxed me. I have traced my vacuum leak to the vacuum reservoir connection. I pulled off the left front wheel liner and identified the broken plastic elbow connecting the pump/reservoir tube to the reservoir. My question is, how do you remove the vacuum reservoir? I can't see the mounting point to the front wing. EPC is down for me at the moment due to a crashed hard drive on my PC. | ||
#216882 - in reply to #194886 | |||
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Photoman Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: New Zealand Vehicle(s): 280GE, ML500, 280SE 3.5 | RE: G55 Diff Lock Vacuum Pump 4x4abc - 10/2/2011 7:00 PM HELH81953021 arrived! Looks identical to the original Hella pump. Only the electrical connectors are 2 instead of 3. Its missing any Hella labeling (could it be a China knockoff?) But anyway, it works just fine for $76! Just tried to order one... but of course they do not ship to New Zealand :-( | ||
#218282 - in reply to #195198 | |||
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