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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
First, it must be said that these are my personal observations based on experience. YMMV.
1.) The split swipe seal (A.460.331.03.80) is only slightly better than useless. I installed these a while back and have experienced excessive seepage past them ever since. Most recently I had a complete grease sling pattern on the inside of the fender liner, and the wheel and tire were entirely grease coated on the back side. These split swipe seals do not require removal of the swivel ball hub, so they're relatively easy to install. Don't bother.
The solid swipe seals (A.460.331.01.80) are a whole lot more work to install, but are well worth the extra effort. They do seal very well.
Another consideration is the cost. The combination of the split swipe seal ($43.50) and the u-pin (A.460.331.05.58 @ $34.50) that is required to hold it together is a whole lot more expensive than the $22.00 solid swipe seal.
2.) My experience with the RedLine CV-2 grease in the swivel ball is less than satisfactory. For me it has separated into a semi-oily mess which makes it all the more prone to leak out past the swipe seals - especially the split swipe seal. Since I was unable to complete the seal replacements due to some surgery recently, the G was parked with the front end on jack stands for 2-1/2 months. During that time, about 100-150 cc of a red low viscosity oil (NOT gear oil from the axle, btw) leaked out past the RF swipe seal. That red low viscosity oil is one of components of the RedLine CV-2 grease which separates.
Along with the seal replacement, I also replaced the swivel ball grease with the MB green grease Fuchs Renolit LX-PEP 2. I have been advised by one of our members that it is a whole lot more stable and not prone to separation like the Redline.
Bottom line: Use the solid swipe seal if you need to replace, and use a grease that does not separate into its components.
As said above, YMMV. |
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dentsmithy
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2007
Location: NFA
Vehicle(s): 1986 230Ge, , 1979 240gd cabrio, AD-SL
Posts: 912
| RE: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
Couldn't agree more. the split seal is a very poor fix.
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Razon
Date registered: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vehicle(s): 1986 280ge Cabrio, 617A, 5sp manual
| RE: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
Hey Dutch,
grease all over the place sounds like great rust prevention! You sure somewhere in the fine print they didn't mention "added benefits"? 
Could be dangerous though if that stuff gets on the tires.
Jokes aside, I had the same experience with both the spit seals and the red line grease. I couldn't justify paying 30+$ for that "staple", so I made my own from a regular nail of proper diameter.
I paid special attention to how well that staple holds , and I wasn't at all surprised to see that the seal stretches when installed at the place where the staple holds it together. While the gap between the ends itself is not much to worry about, I'm not sure if people are aware how much a small change in circumference makes in the overall diameter. For example, if you had a string that went all the way arround the earth at the ecuator (over 40000km), and if you increased it's lenght by only 3m, there would now be a half a meter gap between the string and the earth all the way arround! So, with that in mind, I changed my installation procedure slightly. It is a real PITA, but it does seal a little better. I started installing and tightening the bolts from the top (where the split in the seal is), tightening them all the way before even installing the bolts at the bottom. This makes it very hard to stretch/install the seal at the bottom, and it's very easy to damage the seal in the process, but the ideea is that by tightening the bolds up top, they will hold the seal ends together relieving the "staple" from having to hold the ends together by itself and basically not ending up with a ~1mm gap between the ends of the seal when finally installed, therefore ending up with a tighter fit. I'm not implying that doing it this way it'll be the same as having a full seal, just better sealing than by installing the split seal the "normal" way. Redline will get even past a full seal, so I'm not surprised at all that the split seal leaked. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
Razon - 5/17/2012 1:09 PM
Redline will get even past a full seal, so I'm not surprised at all that the split seal leaked.
The Redline is out of the left swivel ball. Right side is next in line. |
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chris505
Date registered: May 2007
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle(s): '79 280E/'80 280GE/'00 G500
| RE: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
I wonder why some use expensive redline grease or the like inside of the swivel ball?
Why not use basic white molly grease?
I can understand using the best grease available in the wheel bearing cavity and on the king pin bearings, and inside the cv joint boots, but as far as I know the swivel ball grease is meant to keep water and dirt out of the cv housing and to give some visual evidence of the CV boot tearing open by turning black.
Is there some purpose of this grease that I am overlooking that would require superior shock or heat resistance?
The first few years of G production all came from the factory with the split seals held together by staples on the front axles, all of these quickly leaked grease everywhere and let water into the CV housing. Soon after they developed the non-split seal and all trucks since then had these fitted when they rolled off the assembly line.
Usually, when I see grease leaking out all over the place it is due to a torn CV boot, the CV grease mixes/reacts with the housing grease and it quickly breaks down and becomes less viscous and finds its way out of the swipe seal much easier, this grease is generally black, or darker in color too.
The book calls for 800 grams of grease to be used in each CV housing, but in reality the inside area of the cv housing is so small that I personally have a hard time fitting 800g in there, I usually end up squeezing out ~250g of housing grease when I insert the CV housing/half shaft onto the swivel ball/axle tube during final assembly. I have found that over-filling the CV housing will also cause excessive "leakage".
When I take apart non leaking, low mile MBUSA G500 (2002+) front axles that still have the original CV housing grease that someone from Graz or Kassel installed, I have always found only ~400 grams of semi transuicent green colored grease in there. 
The early 463 and Europa G500s I have seen had the same amount (~400g) of semi opaque white colored grease in the housings. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
chris505 - 5/17/2012 3:22 PM
I wonder why some use expensive redline grease or the like inside of the swivel ball?
Why not use basic white molly grease?
I can understand using the best grease available in the wheel bearing cavity and on the king pin bearings, and inside the cv joint boots, but as far as I know the swivel ball grease is meant to keep water and dirt out of the cv housing and to give some visual evidence of the CV boot tearing open by turning black.
Is there some purpose of this grease that I am overlooking that would require superior shock or heat resistance?
Both king pin bearings are behind the swipe seal and accessible to the grease in the swivel ball housing.
There is a school of thought that feels if the swivel ball grease is of the same grade as the CV joint grease, a break in the CV boot will allow high quality grease to mix with the high quality grease inside the boot with no loss of proper lubrication.
PS - I have been informed that the Fuchs green grease is the proper grease for the front wheel wheel bearings.
Hope that answers your questions. |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
The king pin bearings are sealed (after a fashion) from the axle ball grease. However, if water gets into the axle ball it will eventually get past the seals and rust the king pin bearings. Water is heavier than grease and will eventually burrow to the bottom bearing. The moist air above the grease will eventually kill the top bearing.
The theory about axle ball grease filling in when the CV boot is not sound. What happens is this: The boot breaks and the grease inside gets spun out by centrifugal force. That same force keeps out the axle ball grease. This was directly observed on an axle teardown - boot w/ crack, nearly dry inside. In theory some grease might wick back in through the crack in the boot when the axle stops turning. I wouldn't bet my CV joints on that.
Word to the wise: The CV joint will last virtually forever if greased. If you think the boot is broken, fix it soon. The CV joint is not cheap, the boot and grease are quite inexpensive.
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MiN
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Alpujarras, Spain
Vehicle(s): No cars, at all.
Posts: 555
| Re: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
The proper grease for the front wheel bearings is Fuchs Renolit MP150, not the Fuchs Renolit LX PEP 2. Mercedes part number A001 989 34 51. See here:
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/267.1_en.html
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
Razon - 5/17/2012 11:09 AM
...I started installing and tightening the bolts from the top (where the split in the seal is), tightening them all the way before even installing the bolts at the bottom. This makes it very hard to stretch/install the seal at the bottom, and it's very easy to damage the seal in the process, but the ideea is that by tightening the bolds up top, they will hold the seal ends together relieving the "staple" from having to hold the ends together by itself...
Great idea! Thanks for sharing. Personally, I might treat the split seal as a temporary or trail-side fix if required for some reason. If I needed the swipe seal, that's a great way to approach it. If I'm in the garage at home though, I think I'm with Dutch and don't bother with the split seal.
-Dave G. |
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shochu
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Vehicle(s): indonesian-assembled '97 G300
Posts: 452
| RE: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
AlanMcR - 5/17/2012 4:26 AM
The king pin bearings are sealed (after a fashion) from the axle ball grease. However, if water gets into the axle ball it will eventually get past the seals and rust the king pin bearings. Water is heavier than grease and will eventually burrow to the bottom bearing. The moist air above the grease will eventually kill the top bearing.
The theory about axle ball grease filling in when the CV boot is not sound. What happens is this: The boot breaks and the grease inside gets spun out by centrifugal force. That same force keeps out the axle ball grease. This was directly observed on an axle teardown - boot w/ crack, nearly dry inside. In theory some grease might wick back in through the crack in the boot when the axle stops turning. I wouldn't bet my CV joints on that.
Word to the wise: The CV joint will last virtually forever if greased. If you think the boot is broken, fix it soon. The CV joint is not cheap, the boot and grease are quite inexpensive.
very true..
i had my front axle hub disassembled just last week, after the left wheel developed some bearing sound overnight
turned out the boot was completely torn along the edges of the big clamp.
it's dry inside, bearings are just starting to get shaved, what's left of the grease has burned to black color
it's good that the CV joint is still good.
new SKF bearings, and new boot, along with new grease (MB grease, green). and regular grease in the hub behind the boot
decided to check the right side as well.
boot was in the same shape as the one on the left, completely torn all around
bearings are still good, grease still good, although the color has become white for some reason, quite possibly from water seepage
bearings would've gone too, if not found out..
new boot & new grease on the right hand side.
these rubber boots are not going to last forever
if you have an older G, it might be well worth the effort to check them out & replace them before your whole front axle goes kaput |
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zimm
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Feb 2010
Location: pittsburgh
Vehicle(s): lx470, 76 fj40, 72fj40, 96 gelandewagen g320.
Posts: 788
| RE: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
has there been excessive leaking from the split seal using the proper grease? |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
zimm - 5/18/2012 7:48 AM
has there been excessive leaking from the split seal using the proper grease?
To answer your question, see the 4th paragraph in this post:
http://pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=19530&mid=20...
FWIW, the leaking was not as bad with Redline behind the solid swipe seal. |
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G-AMG
G-Class DIY Host
Date registered: May 2006
Location: South Texas
Vehicle(s): '04 G55, '80 280GE, '99 S420, '98 E320, 2011 E350
| Re: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
Very good pick-up!! Yes, indeed, for the G-Wagen, the Specified grease for the Wheel Bearings *IS* the Renolit MP 150 and NOT the LX PEP2.
The PEP2 is actually for "Passenger Car" application, and not the Cross-Country Vehicle.
Also, I just learned the Filling Volume for the Housing has been Modified on 9/23/09, and is now 500 Grams of the MP 150, down from 800g previously.
This also jibes with chris505's observations.
Uffff, now after obtaining all of that PEP2... I guess I will have to put it to good use on my Sedans.... BUT, I think I might go ahead and use it for the Swivel Housings. Like it was noted, the only purpose is to keep out the elements. Plus, I "Suspect" it is close enough to the MP150 for such an application. |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
zimm - 5/18/2012 4:48 AM has there been excessive leaking from the split seal using the proper grease? For me the greater concern is moisture getting into the housing through the split in the seal.
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G-AMG
G-Class DIY Host
Date registered: May 2006
Location: South Texas
Vehicle(s): '04 G55, '80 280GE, '99 S420, '98 E320, 2011 E350
| Re: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
For those interested in purchasing the specified Wheel bearing Grease A001 989 34 51 from the Dealership, please be advised it is NOT listed in the EPC System.
You will need to tell your Dealer to add a -11 modifier to have it show up in their Paragon system.
BTW, the grease is the same for the Semi-Truck bearings as well! |
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MiN
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Alpujarras, Spain
Vehicle(s): No cars, at all.
Posts: 555
| Re: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
It is in the EPC system, under Truck greases, rather than Car greases. |
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G-AMG
G-Class DIY Host
Date registered: May 2006
Location: South Texas
Vehicle(s): '04 G55, '80 280GE, '99 S420, '98 E320, 2011 E350
| Re: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
MiN - 5/21/2012 10:34 PM
It is in the EPC system, under Truck greases, rather than Car greases.
Unfortunately, in the USA, the ONLY option we have is the "CAR" selection.
 (EPC.jpg)
Attachments
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 EPC.jpg (136KB - 2 downloads)
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
G-AMG - 5/21/2012 10:49 PM
MiN - 5/21/2012 10:34 PM
It is in the EPC system, under Truck greases, rather than Car greases.
Unfortunately, in the USA, the ONLY option we have is the "CAR" selection.
It actually depends on which version of the EPC. The R-O-W version is available in the US. I use it.
 (EPC.jpg)
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EPC.jpg (46KB - 1 downloads)
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G-AMG
G-Class DIY Host
Date registered: May 2006
Location: South Texas
Vehicle(s): '04 G55, '80 280GE, '99 S420, '98 E320, 2011 E350
| RE: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
Here is a pic of the Hoodoo-Voodoo Grease.
It is the Specified material for:
1-The Wheel Bearings
2- King Pin Bearings
3- Joint Housing (please note, the modified amount is now 500 Grams).
Sooo, I would think you would need THREE tubes of the Hooch to do a front axle job.
I was surprised to see an actual M-B Packaging. I guess I expected a Fuchs Tube.
Edited by G-AMG 5/23/2012 12:11 PM
 (IMG-20120523-00078.jpg)
 (IMG-20120523-00079.jpg)
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IMG-20120523-00078.jpg (149KB - 9 downloads)
IMG-20120523-00079.jpg (132KB - 6 downloads)
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zimm
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Feb 2010
Location: pittsburgh
Vehicle(s): lx470, 76 fj40, 72fj40, 96 gelandewagen g320.
Posts: 788
| RE: Front Axle Swivel Ball Observations
MB seems to have perfected the product supply chain and service system ol' Ford dreamed of. |
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