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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: super crook
4x4abc - 10/8/2014 2:25 PM
when enough water has passed under the bridge it might be possible to publish how many millions Mr. Holland extorted from Mercedes-Benz.
"Extorted"? Where did this come from? Unless you can provide some evidence, I don't think I can leave this post here. |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| RE: super crook
DUTCH - 10/7/2014 8:57 PM
4x4abc - 10/8/2014 2:25 PM
when enough water has passed under the bridge it might be possible to publish how many millions Mr. Holland extorted from Mercedes-Benz.
"Extorted"? Where did this come from? Unless you can provide some evidence, I don't think I can leave this post here.
The other thread about him calls him all kinds of stuff also, and personally I see bugger all value in any of the personal stuff being hurled about here and "over yonder" lately.
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
What was the cost differential buying from "early Europa" vs doing your own federalization when it was allowed? |
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Brent
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
| RE: super crook
Importation rights are an interesting thing. Fact is, Holland had to purchase them from a willing seller, Mercedes Benz. I do not know what he had to pay but I am sure it was far less than he sold them back for. Maybe I am way off but I recall the number at the time was around $30 million. MB has surely recouped that investment and then some over the last 14 or so years. They would not have bought the rights back if they didn't think it would be profitable for them. Holland made a good play there, can't say I wouldn't have gone for as much as possible myself.
The family that still has a claim to imported Toyotas in the US has a "ranch" near here, I think 10,000+ acres and a 30,000 sq ft main house. They have made more off of importation rights, doing absolutely nothing, than Holland even dreamed of fleecing MB for. It isn't new, it isn't illegal and if what I have heard is even close to correct, Holland barely did OK in the bigger scheme of importation.
If there is more to it than I am missing, educate me. I find the whole Europa business model fascinating. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: super crook
well, at the moment I cant provide any details without compromising other people - so, Dutch, feel free to take this down (I thought, I did this as a response to the other topic)
and by the way, all this might be an interesting anecdote in a future book - but it has not much value for the G community at the moment. It's just gossip about one of the many bad characters on this planet. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
you have to distinguish between grey market and after grey market
Holland was involved in both
I was one of the importers/dealers at the time as well (grey market) -1980's
in grey market the money was in converting currencies
Mercedes/Porsche/BMW were about the same in DM as in $
the exchange rate was between 1:2.4 and 1:3.2
an $60,000 S-Class was DM 60,000 in Germany (G-Class about $55k)
shipping (I forgot exactly) but somewhere around $600
customs 2.4% = $1,440
conversion (US headlights, EPS crap etc) $3,500
since you could not offer MBUSA warranties, you would sell the S-Class around $50k
I sold most of my cars to the mafia (and that's another book)
the smart ones around you do the math
then the manufacturers killed grey market (can you spell lobbying?) - they wanted to make the dough themselves (1990's)
I can't go into the details how MB and Holland got together to sell G in the US (Mercedes was desperate to sell more G)
but there was probably a profit of $>60K per car (around $130 k sticker)
and no, the expenses involved were not covered by Holland (an argument used by Europa why the cars were so expensive)
and no, Holland did not sell as many units as hoped by MB (well, no surprise at that price tag)
MB was less than happy, to say the least
so, MB and MBUSA contemplated to sell the G-Class officially (what on earth took them so long - but that's another book and I definitely can not talk about it)
so Mr. Holland threatened to sue MB/MBUSA for killing his business
all I can say is that Mr. Holland is a real estate developer now
but man am I glad that I drive MBUSA G500 - best car I ever owned |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
sorry, I missed that point
the advantage buying from an established source was that you did not have to dig through regulations and paperwork
If you would have, you would have saved a lot of money
some people do not have the time - some people do not have the guts
It's like buying at Amazon - one click convenient
you could import your own shit directly from China for 10%
no prescription eye glasses at CVS US about $20
Amazon $10.99
at pharmacy in Mexico $3.70
directly from China $0.45 |
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
4x4abc - 10/8/2014 10:00 PM
you have to distinguish between grey market and after grey market
Holland was involved in both
I was one of the importers/dealers at the time as well (grey market) -1980's
in grey market the money was in converting currencies
Mercedes/Porsche/BMW were about the same in DM as in $
the exchange rate was between 1:2.4 and 1:3.2
an $60,000 S-Class was DM 60,000 in Germany (G-Class about $55k)
shipping (I forgot exactly) but somewhere around $600
customs 2.4% = $1,440
conversion (US headlights, EPS crap etc) $3,500
since you could not offer MBUSA warranties, you would sell the S-Class around $50k
I sold most of my cars to the mafia (and that's another book)
the smart ones around you do the math
then the manufacturers killed grey market (can you spell lobbying?) - they wanted to make the dough themselves (1990's)
I can't go into the details how MB and Holland got together to sell G in the US (Mercedes was desperate to sell more G)
but there was probably a profit of $>60K per car (around $130 k sticker)
and no, the expenses involved were not covered by Holland (an argument used by Europa why the cars were so expensive)
and no, Holland did not sell as many units as hoped by MB (well, no surprise at that price tag)
MB was less than happy, to say the least
so, MB and MBUSA contemplated to sell the G-Class officially (what on earth took them so long - but that's another book and I definitely can not talk about it)
so Mr. Holland threatened to sue MB/MBUSA for killing his business
all I can say is that Mr. Holland is a real estate developer now
but man am I glad that I drive MBUSA G500 - best car I ever owned
And then we say "Thanks Greenspan" for killing the business...or was it the lobbyists? |
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Warren T
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): 230GE,300GD,300D
Posts: 519
| Re: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
Am I missing something.....I have yet to see where This guy Holland did something DISHONEST
He may have been a shrued businessman, but to suggest he managed to FLEESE a corporation
like Mercedes Benz is a stretch. If ever he managed this, it's only sweet revenge for
all the clients they FLEESE every time they walk into one of their stealerships.
Warren |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
revenge is exactly what keeps us from having peace
wrong is wrong - no matter how you paint it
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Warren T
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): 230GE,300GD,300D
Posts: 519
| Re: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
OK, let's just call it the pendulum of justice finding it's equilibrium....
Hot meaning to defend Mr Holland who I do not know but I hate internet bashing with
insinuations and rapid judjements....If he did something WRONG, let's hear it and
we can all judge him from there.
Warren |
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zimm
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Feb 2010
Location: pittsburgh
Vehicle(s): lx470, 76 fj40, 72fj40, 96 gelandewagen g320.
Posts: 788
| Re: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
4x4abc - 10/8/2014 10:15 PM
sorry, I missed that point
the advantage buying from an established source was that you did not have to dig through regulations and paperwork
If you would have, you would have saved a lot of money
some people do not have the time - some people do not have the guts
It's like buying at Amazon - one click convenient
you could import your own shit directly from China for 10%
no prescription eye glasses at CVS US about $20
Amazon $10.99
at pharmacy in Mexico $3.70
directly from China $0.45
LOL... as i sit looking at my case of +2.00 reading glasses from china. i leave them everywhere, so i have them set on my desk like a box of straws. |
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zimm
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Feb 2010
Location: pittsburgh
Vehicle(s): lx470, 76 fj40, 72fj40, 96 gelandewagen g320.
Posts: 788
| Re: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
4x4abc - 10/9/2014 9:20 PM
revenge is exactly what keeps us from having peace
wrong is wrong - no matter how you paint it
your waxing a bit philosophical.
you just admitted you sold cars to the mafia. if youre doing business in any form, youre not viewd as "innocent".
in the end, i dont think its a matter of "if" money is made, its a matter of "who" makes it. theres no one or no entity that accumulates wealth innocently. someone is always getting screwed.
if you sit at the poker table, and you dont know who the mark is, its you.
Edited by zimm 10/10/2014 9:53 AM
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
4x4abc - 10/9/2014 9:20 PM
revenge is exactly what keeps us from having peace
As does jealousy and resentment. The sooner we let go of them all, the sooner we'll be at peace. |
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gelenda
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Great Bay, New Hampshire
Vehicle(s): '03 G500, '16 E63S AMG, '15 Grand Cherokee Diesel
Posts: 122
| Re: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
Instead of talking shit about this guy we should be thanking him for making the MBUSA G-class possible. MBUSA didn't know how to market the G in the US and probably still doesn't. Sure, maybe this Holland guy just happened to be in the right place at the right time for success, but you have to admit that getting into the Neiman Marcus Christmas catalog in 2000 was no small marketing feat. Definitely not something MBUSA would have been able to accomplish. Maybe they can prove me wrong by putting a Unimog Hybrid in the 2015 catalog. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
Mr. Holland was trying to prevent the MBUSA G-Class
Mr. Holland was not the reason why MBUSA did not have the G prior to 2002
and he was not the reason that MBUSA finally offered the G from 2002 on |
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Brent
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
| RE: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
None of that makes Holland a bad character....
IMNSHO, MBUSA is run by a bunch of idiots. MB has TONS of excellent models that we simply are not offered in the states due to "IMAGE".
My understanding is that Holland had importation rights to the G class. If that is the case then MBUSA was not able to import the trucks because of Hollands arrangement. Selling them the rights back after creating the market was genius. |
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amg463
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Vehicle(s): 1994 G300
Posts: 217
| Re: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
It'd be interesting to learn how this fellow went about buying the rights in the first place. As for selling them back, I think that's less genius and more a good business move. |
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gelenda
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Great Bay, New Hampshire
Vehicle(s): '03 G500, '16 E63S AMG, '15 Grand Cherokee Diesel
Posts: 122
| Re: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
amg463 - 10/13/2014 10:20 AM
It'd be interesting to learn how this fellow went about buying the rights in the first place.
MBUSA probably didn't want them just like they didn't want the rights to sell the Sprinter which was first sold as a Freightliner and then a Dodge!
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: In G-Wagen He Trusts...Europa Intl History
this is like the Y2K discussion (remember?)
most stick to their own belief/religion
few consider the facts |
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