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bram_r Expert Date registered: Apr 2007 Location: the Netherlands Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD Posts: 1659 | Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel I recently bought a Schmude snorkel for 460/461 type G on http://www.schmude-hardtop.de/index.php?article_id=57&page=2. Because of the lines and angles of this snorkel which follow the G-wagen lines, I prefer this type of snorkel on 460 G wagens. Kind of reminds me to Unimog type snorkels which I like as well. See below for some pictures, measurements and installation of this snorkel which I did last weekend. Compleet kit consists of snorkel, Mann top-hat, A-pillar bracket, rubber flexibel hose and some mounting hardware: The snorkel got a 80mm connection at the bottom for the rubber hose. But as this small pipe goes through the fender under an angle, you'll need a stretched hole in the fender to clear this 80mm pipe. The snorkel is attached to the fender by some screws of rivets and a long bolt. On the A-pillar a bracket is mounted with screws or rivets. On this bracket a rubber damper is mounted on which the snorkel gets screwed in to. I made the following notes and measurements: A-pillar bracket: ] I used the holes in the bracket to mark the holes for drilling: ] With door closed: ] Snorkel is mounted on this rubber damper: ] Then some measurements for the right hand fender: The top of the rubber bumper on the fender is the base for the vertical dimensions. The point where the rear edge of the fender crosses the top of the rubber bumper is where the horizontal measurements are referred from: ] I used a 86mm hole-saw for cutting this stretched hole. You basicly have to cut two holes, which overlap. By inserting the hole-saw under an angle in the fender, you can first cut the left hand of the stretched hole, and then the right side. Don't cut too much with the first hole, otherwise you won't have any material in the fender left to center the hole-saw and cut the second hole. I used an electrical file to smooth all the edges and remove the material that remained and cutting the two circles. Work carefully and slow and it will be alright on the first attempt. (I also made a template for it for in case I need to install another snorkel some day): ] ] When all holes are cut and drilled, this is how it will look: ] Since the holes for the screws go throug the snorkel, some sealant is needed to prevent water entering the snorkel through these bolt-holes. Use some sealant under the screws as well. Because I have an 290GTD air filter and a watercooled intercooled, my connection from air-cleaner to snorkel needs to be adapted. I have to think what is best solution. From Schmude I received some pictures how the installation of the rubber hose should be routed when you'd have a standard 460 or 461 (no 290TD). Normaly, you'd cut an extra hole is the inner fender in front of the air cleaner. The sharp edge is rounded off by using the protective rubber. On the air cleaner the aluminum tube is mounted with screws. Use some sealant here as well. The suction tube of the air cleaner may need to be shortened, couldn't check this. Then the rubber hose is mounted by using the hose clamps on both snorkel and air cleaner side. The hose in the pictures looks a bit weak, the rubber hose I got with the kit is a nice heavy quality rubber hose. ] ] ] ] When everything is finished, the finished result should look like this: ] ] ] ] Happy with the looks and result! gr. Bram | ||
#217383 | |||
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hipine Date registered: Jul 2006 Location: US, CO, Bailey Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A | RE: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel Thanks Bram! Nice writeup. Thanks for sharing. -Dave G. | ||
#217388 - in reply to #217383 | |||
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Boy G Expert Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Bushveld, South Africa Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602 Posts: 1683 | Re: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel Dankie Bram, I have similar plans for my 460. I am wondering if the whole air cleaner may not be rotated to face back and minimise the long pipe under the fender?. Especially on the RHD. Did you consider this? Btw my 461 turbo has a very badly engineered air intake IMO. Water splash from the front wheel goes into the air filter and then also the seal between the fender and the intake grill fails and causes a ton of muck from the front wheel to bypass the grill. | ||
#217423 - in reply to #217383 | |||
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kashi123 Veteran Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: UK, Netherlands Vehicle(s): Mercedes 300GD OM606A Pickup; Mercedes 300GD Posts: 168 | Re: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel Boy G - 10/1/2013 8:28 PM Dankie Bram, I have similar plans for my 460. I am wondering if the whole air cleaner may not be rotated to face back and minimise the long pipe under the fender? Hi Andrew, Is this what you mean? (image.jpg) (image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (130KB - 3 downloads) image.jpg (116KB - 6 downloads) | ||
#217493 - in reply to #217423 | |||
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bram_r Expert Date registered: Apr 2007 Location: the Netherlands Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD Posts: 1659 | Re: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel Hey thanks, I can try this one of these days. What kind of mega-Phone you have hiding on your firewall For car-alarm..? | ||
#217497 - in reply to #217383 | |||
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kashi123 Veteran Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: UK, Netherlands Vehicle(s): Mercedes 300GD OM606A Pickup; Mercedes 300GD Posts: 168 | Re: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel No not an alarm, it is for my inner child. It is connected to my cb radios pa function so I can 'comment' on things happening outside the car. Especially handy offroad! | ||
#217502 - in reply to #217383 | |||
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Boy G Expert Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Bushveld, South Africa Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602 Posts: 1683 | Re: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel Thats the goods Richard. Thanks | ||
#217521 - in reply to #217383 | |||
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bram_r Expert Date registered: Apr 2007 Location: the Netherlands Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD Posts: 1659 | RE: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel I've looked at my current air filter set-up and contemplated a bit about reversing it. Came quite quickly to the conclusion that with filter housing, things aren't going to be improved a lot by reversing it. Set up is situated as seen in following pictures: ] ] So inlet and outlet parallel next to each other. The airflow needs to run approximately like this: ] What would be the best type of filter to use to get a decent installation? Any suggestions on G type filters or after market, like MANN..? Of course, with the use of a direct 90 degree bend on the inlet of the air filter housing, I think I can make a set-up which uses the rubber hose in the fender as standard used by Schmude. For that I can use the Original 90 degree bend which comes on the 290GDT set-up. ] gr. Bram Edited by bram_r 10/14/2013 8:10 PM | ||
#217671 - in reply to #217383 | |||
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Boy G Expert Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Bushveld, South Africa Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602 Posts: 1683 | Re: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel I would agree. You have the original 290 filter housing and the plumbing is more logical in stock format. Keep it like that. I have expressed strong negative opinions about the position of the air intake on the 290 fender before, but you do not have that problem. For a RHD 617a I think the situation is different. When I finally get the time to do some changes on mine I might look to doing like Richard. | ||
#217741 - in reply to #217383 | |||
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bram_r Expert Date registered: Apr 2007 Location: the Netherlands Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD Posts: 1659 | Re: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel Boy G - 10/19/2013 8:21 PM I would agree. You have the original 290 filter housing and the plumbing is more logical in stock format. Keep it like that. I have expressed strong negative opinions about the position of the air intake on the 290 fender before, but you do not have that problem. For a RHD 617a I think the situation is different. When I finally get the time to do some changes on mine I might look to doing like Richard. this weekend indeed made a hole in the inner fender to go ahead with the plumbing in stock format. I also discovered that the hose supplied by Schmude can make very tight bends without kinking. There's a metal spiral in there to prevent that from happening. So even without the 290GDT 90 degree bend I think I can make the turn. Next week update! | ||
#217742 - in reply to #217741 | |||
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bram_r Expert Date registered: Apr 2007 Location: the Netherlands Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD Posts: 1659 | Re: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel Today I went ahead with the installation of the hose between air filter and snorkel. Because I've got the 290GDT air filter and the intercooler on the inner fender, my installation differs from the standard Schmude routing. I was a little afraid I wasn't able to install the hose in the tight space and tight turns, but it worked out okay. Hose has metal reinforcement, preventing it from kinking: ] Hose therefor can make very tight bends without kinking: ] Made a hole in the inner fender and put the protection on the edge to prevent shaving problems, this piece is in the Schmude kit: ] ] Installed the hose and connected it to the air filter ] ] ] Connection the snorkel: ] Need to mount the hose on some points to prevent is from sagging between snorkel and hole in the inner fender. Will see what I can come up with. Bought some 80mmrain gutter clamps to what I can do with that. Will update later. ] gr. Bram | ||
#217826 - in reply to #217383 | |||
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bram_r Expert Date registered: Apr 2007 Location: the Netherlands Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD Posts: 1659 | RE: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel Thanks to my neighbour I got hold of some nice hose clamps suitable for the intake hose diameter. These got some nice rubber insert and also a mounting position for 8mm bolts. So I postioned the clamps a bit and drilled some 8mm holes in the inner fender. See pics for result. It is positioned nice, high and tight against the upper wheelwell. ] ] ] Gr. Bram Edited by bram_r 6/14/2014 5:28 PM | ||
#222441 - in reply to #217383 | |||
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DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | Bram Very nice installation. You have a Private Message. | ||
#222443 - in reply to #222441 | |||
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olasdeplata Extreme Veteran Date registered: Sep 2006 Location: At the Beach in Hatteras Vehicle(s): 280GE convertible 84, 300E 89 Posts: 396 | Re: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel To avoid sealants and connectors, I routed the flex pipe "inside" the snorkel till have way. I assumed that was plenty | ||
#222445 - in reply to #217383 | |||
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Mcfly Member Date registered: Dec 2011 Location: Denver Vehicle(s): '86 280ge LWB Posts: 12 | RE: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel bram_r - 6/14/2014 3:26 PM Thanks to my neighbour I got hold of some nice hose clamps suitable for the intake hose diameter. These got some nice rubber insert and also a mounting position for 8mm bolts. So I postioned the clamps a bit and drilled some 8mm holes in the inner fender. See pics for result. It is positioned nice, high and tight against the upper wheelwell. ] ] ] Gr. Bram where did these clamps come from? it looks clean | ||
#234061 - in reply to #222441 | |||
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bram_r Expert Date registered: Apr 2007 Location: the Netherlands Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD Posts: 1659 | RE: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel Mcfly - 10/5/2016 10:27 PM where did these clamps come from? it looks clean I'm not exactly sure, but it should be something for clamping ventilation or drainage pipes or something like that. Anyway construction hardware, not specific automotive stuff. | ||
#234083 - in reply to #234061 | |||
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emlmcb Veteran Date registered: Dec 2006 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Vehicle(s): 1986 LWB 300GD / 1998 E320 / 1996 LWB G300TD Posts: 119 | RE: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel Hi. I have seen that all of you guys are using the flexible rubber with steel wire coil reinforcement hose in your proyects. As an engineer I am a consultant in a large hose suplying company and can tell you for sure that this kind of hoses have 2 problems: a) Due to their corrugated construction, their useful diametre at high air flow is quite smaller than the real one, creating a lot of back pressure due to air whirls. b) Sincé they need to be flexible, the rubber in them is very thin compared to the normal rubber hoses. This makes them very prone to get cracks with the combination of heat, mud, wáter and vibration that is the environment of a 460 G fenderwell. The 463 with its plastic fender liner is not so bad. This is not only theory. This happened to some of the guys in our G group, who being satisfied that they had a snorkel went fording deep streams only to find that their air filter was all soaked with wáter. Thanks to the good design of the Mercedes filter, the wáter did not make its way into the engine. The solution we found are the white plastic pipes that you can get in hardware stores for wáter drainage. (Not the red or Green ones for fresh wáter or sewage) They come in many sizes, there are several ready made curves with different angles, reductions and other fittings and, best of all, with the use of a hot air pistol and some practice you can bend them into any shape. With the combination of the 45 and 90 degree pre formed curves available, plus some minor adjustments done with heat, you can get a perfect shape for your needs. The pipes are smooth inside, thus being far more flow efficient. Two final warnings: Do not overheat the pipes while bending them. They will get too flexible and colapse at trying to bend them. Just heat them enough to let you bend them by hand with a little effort. Buy a few extra feet of them to practice. Do not try to glue the different parts together with any kind of sealant, most of them will not stick to plastic. In the same store where you get the pipes they will sell you a special adhesive. It is liquid. Works as a lubricant to help you snap the different part together and in a few minutes welds the parts forever. Hope this helps Ed | ||
#234145 - in reply to #217383 | |||
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bram_r Expert Date registered: Apr 2007 Location: the Netherlands Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD Posts: 1659 | Re: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel Thanks Ed, The hose that Schmude supplies seems pretty sturdy, but of course it can always be punctured. Mounting W461 inner fenders would create some protection against anything that comes of the front wheel and could be a good solution. Can you do some calculations if the corrugated contruction indeed can lead to less/little air for the engine on higher rpm's? My guess would be that the air filter is still the most restricted part of the inlet trajectory and putting 4 ft of hose on the filter suction side wouldn't be the factor that could lead to an air restriction large enough to create engine problems, but maybe you can prove otherwise. Thanks for your input, Bram | ||
#234150 - in reply to #217383 | |||
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emlmcb Veteran Date registered: Dec 2006 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Vehicle(s): 1986 LWB 300GD / 1998 E320 / 1996 LWB G300TD Posts: 119 | RE: Installation Schmude 460/461 snorkel Hi, Bram: Making a calculation of how much air back pressure the corrugated hose creates would be quite complicated, since it dependes of the hose diametre, quality and air flow. Like any piece of industrial piping, suppliers usually provide a flow/psi graphic that lets you find what the pressure loss is for any given flow. I agree with you that the filter itself is the most restrictive part of the whole intake, but, do not forget, that the combined restriction of all parts included is what your intake system will have to manage, so every Little saving you can make helps. In a NA engine, intake pressure loss will not be very noticeable al sea level, but go up any high road and you can feel the engine (specially if it is a diésel)) gasping for a Little extra air. The power loss is not so noticeable on a turbo engine, since the turbo will compensate for it, but a restrictive intake puts some extra axial strain in the turbo bearings, since the air turbine tries to go forward to suck more air. Last, regarding the quality of flexible rubber hoses, I agree with you again that there are many good ones and many poor ones as well. But in any case, rubber has a tendency to crack with age, so why take the risk if the plastic piping is inexpensive and not hard to work with. Just to give you an idea of what air pressure loss is, I will tell you a real story with my old 300GD. I wanted a turbo engine, but on the other side my NA 617 was in great shape, so I decided to add a turbo to it instead of replacing it with a used turbo one in unknown condition. Overhawling a turbo 617 in Buenos Aires will probably cost more that the engine itself. Everything worked fine, but the vacuum indicator on my air filter kept poping out. I trimmed about 1 inch of the plastic cyclonic separator that covers the filter element, and the problem was gone. Hope I answered your question. Ed | ||
#234154 - in reply to #217383 | |||
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