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EdwinJ
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2012
Location: Quebec Ontario border, Canada
Vehicle(s): C280 1997, 280GE SWB 1983
Posts: 83
| Rear Seat Base Release Latch
I cannot make the release latch on my SWB 460 rear seat base work. I am referring to the latch that is operated by pulling up on the 2 "tabs" accessible from the cargo area and on the right/left sides below the actual seat frame. These are mounted on two inverted u-channels and operate a round shaft running side to side which I assume have some sort of latching mechanism buried within two metal brackets mounted on the inside wheel wheels on either side of the truck. I have poked/felt around and have tried to see how it is supposed to work but the only parts visible are described herein. My next step will be to remove the rear brackets but thought I would ask here in case there is some trick I cannot see.
Edited by EdwinJ 3/31/2014 2:59 PM
 (460 Rear Sear Release Latches Left.jpg)
 (460 Rear Sear Release Latches Right.jpg)
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 460 Rear Sear Release Latches Left.jpg (241KB - 0 downloads)
460 Rear Sear Release Latches Right.jpg (134KB - 0 downloads)
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Graham
Member
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Halifax, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1980 SWB 300GD 1969 280s
Posts: 40
| Re: Rear Seat Base Release Latch
I had the same problem when I got my truck. My memory is a little fuzzy but it was something like this: the lever is attached to a shaft that runs to both sides and is attached to hooks that latch into notches mounted on the truck. The shaft wasn't turning enough to pop the hooks out of the notches. Somehow I think I turned the shaft without the lever... ( I think) I can elaborate if this seems possible. I have taken the works out or I would go take a look. Hope this helps…
--Graham
Edited by Graham 3/31/2014 3:27 PM
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EdwinJ
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2012
Location: Quebec Ontario border, Canada
Vehicle(s): C280 1997, 280GE SWB 1983
Posts: 83
| Re: Rear Seat Base Release Latch
Graham - 3/31/2014 3:27 PM
( I think) I can elaborate if this seems possible... Hope this helps… --Graham
It does help in that it confirmed that there are no tricks. I tried to use a vice grip but there is not enough room under the seat to turn the shaft. I took a look at the bolts that hold the brackets on each side, the back 2 nuts that are accessible from the cargo area can be reached as can their corresponding bolts inside the rear wheel wells. Removing them will be straight forward; not so sure about the front 2 (it appears that there are 4 bolts on each side) since I could not feel where the inside nuts are, with luck they will be fixed.
What is now pre-occupying me is how to adjust things so that lifting the "tabs" will release the seat base. I am guessing that the shaft has twisted although when I look its seems to be at least a half inch diameter. Twisting it back might work once or twice, wondering if there is any adjustment in the position of the bracket that will allow the latch to release. Until I have things apart it will be difficult to tell. I want to keep the seat installed but also want the room available in the cargo area when it is folded forward.
I am into my 2nd year with a W460, while it is true that they are overbuilt in many respects it is also true that they have a few poor design decisions incorporated. Guess such idiosyncrasies go with the territory.
Thanks for the input.
Ted |
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Inkblotz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
| Re: Rear Seat Base Release Latch
Did you fully release the lever on the top side of the backrest first and fold the back rest forward?
Do you have an owners manual for the G? http://www.pruebas.pieldetoro.net/web/MERCEDES/detalle.php?MANUAL=2...
Mark
Edited by Inkblotz 4/1/2014 7:14 AM
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EdwinJ
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2012
Location: Quebec Ontario border, Canada
Vehicle(s): C280 1997, 280GE SWB 1983
Posts: 83
| Re: Rear Seat Base Release Latch
Inkblotz - 4/1/2014 7:10 AM Did you fully release the lever on the top side of the backrest first and fold the back rest forward? I will assume that this was a serious question; yes seat back is released and folded forward.Do you have an owners manual for the G? http://www.pruebas.pieldetoro.net/web/MERCEDES/detalle.php?MANUAL=2... I do not; I looked in the manual at the link provided (thanks!) but the rear seat release does not correspond to my 280GE (1983). My truck has 2 brackets on the back side of the seat base that are bolted to the wheel wells, the seat base has a mechanism that latches into the brackets. The mechanism is, simplistically, metal tabs on a swivel shaft (runs from across the length of the seat base underneath) that are accessible from the cargo area and by pulling up on the tabs are intended to release the latch from the side brackets. On mine the release does not work and the seat base will not tilt forward. It is difficult to get a good look at the mechanism since there is only about 2-3" of clearance between the floor and the seat base. Mark
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Graham
Member
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Halifax, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1980 SWB 300GD 1969 280s
Posts: 40
| Re: Rear Seat Base Release Latch
This is likely not the best / easiest way to unlatch them but I think I had to unbolt the front bolts which act as the rotation to the seat. I was taking the seats out anyway so no biggie. I remember struggling with it for a long time….
---Graham |
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Jean
Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Belgium
Vehicle(s): 1980 SWB 300GD
Posts: 103
| Re: Rear Seat Base Release Latch
EdwinJ, I have an 1980 with the same rear bench mechanism as described. I attached some pictures. The bench brackets are connected by a small dowel pin to the shaft and the latches themselves are welded to the swivel shaft so it indeed is strange that the brackets can be moved without moving the latches. I would think the easiest solution is to remove the 2 brackets [3 bolts per bracket: 2 x size 13 to be removed from the outside (=wheel well) and 1 x size 13 from the inside which bolts into the floor if I recall correctly]. Hope this helps. Just let me know if you need additional pictures ... Regards Jan
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IMG_4811.JPG (104KB - 0 downloads)
IMG_4812.JPG (84KB - 0 downloads)
IMG_4813.JPG (100KB - 0 downloads)
IMG_4814.JPG (88KB - 0 downloads)
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EdwinJ
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2012
Location: Quebec Ontario border, Canada
Vehicle(s): C280 1997, 280GE SWB 1983
Posts: 83
| Re: Rear Seat Base Release Latch
Jean - 4/1/2014 3:05 PM
EdwinJ, I have an 1980 with the same rear bench mechanism as described. I attached some pictures. The bench brackets are connected by a small dowel pin to the shaft and the latches themselves are welded to the swivel shaft so it indeed is strange that the brackets can be moved without moving the latches. I would think the easiest solution is to remove the 2 brackets [3 bolts per bracket: 2 x size 13 to be removed from the outside (=wheel well) and 1 x size 13 from the inside which bolts into the floor if I recall correctly]. Hope this helps. Just let me know if you need additional pictures ... Regards Jan
Jan, very helpful indeed! The pictures help make sense of how the mechanism works. A bit of clarification please: on the outside I have 4 bolts showing, I have removed the 2 rearmost ones and know they correspond to the 2 nuts shown in my pictures above. If it is easy can you have a look and confirm that your G has the 4 bolts as well? In the meantime I will go and see if I can feel the bolt that you describe as attaching to the floor.
The previous owner told me that he had removed the interior for a repair/repaint. I am guessing that he may not have positioned the brackets correctly and once the seat was re-installed and locked down the 1st time there it remained.
Thank you.
Ted
[A wee bit later]
Of course the 3rd bolt is covered by the rear rubber mat which cannot be taken out or moved much without removing screws etc from the threshold at the back door, not a big deal but one of those "where does the string end?" kind of things.
Given that I now know how the latches work I tried to use screwdrivers to lever the latch undone, frustrating because of limited room to manoeuver. I did get them to position upwards somewhat but when I attempted to lift the seat base the latch drops back down into the lock position. I see springs in your pictures above so tomorrow (getting dark here now) I will try to remove those and unlatch again.
Your pictures ARE worth 1000 words!
Edited by EdwinJ 4/1/2014 6:18 PM
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Graham
Member
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Halifax, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1980 SWB 300GD 1969 280s
Posts: 40
| Re: Rear Seat Base Release Latch
My interior had been "redone" as well….
---Graham
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Jean
Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Belgium
Vehicle(s): 1980 SWB 300GD
Posts: 103
| Re: Rear Seat Base Release Latch
Sorry, my mistake. It are 4 bolts indeed to be loosened in the wheel well. A picture of the 5th one to the floor is attached. As already posted, it might be worthwile - if the screwdriver trick does not work - to loosen the 2 front bolts first (on which the rear bench rotates when folding upwards after unlatching). I am not sure you will be able to unhook the bench from the latches but as it only are 2 instead of 10 when removing the latch bays... Good luck Jan
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IMG_4815[1].JPG (90KB - 0 downloads)
IMG_4816[1].JPG (111KB - 0 downloads)
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EdwinJ
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2012
Location: Quebec Ontario border, Canada
Vehicle(s): C280 1997, 280GE SWB 1983
Posts: 83
| Rear Seat Base Latch #2
[This is a continuation of another topic thread titled "Rear Seat Base Latch". Sorry to break that thread but I could not attach photos to it. Please read that thread first since it contain other photos that context this topic thread.]
I finally made time and figured out both what the source problem is AND how to go about fixing it - turns out to be very simple and easy.
Problem: The "roll pin" that ties the shaft, the release tab and the latch together breaks and allows the shaft to rotate so that the latch will not release. Repair can be affected without removing any of the 3 latch pieces tat make up the overall mechanism.
Step 1 is to get the back seat base latch unhooked. This is trivial and identified above by (THANKS!) - remove the two front pivot bolts on which the seat folds forward; these are 23MM heads that screw into nuts that are fixed onto the front brackets. Once unbolted lift the front of the seat and the back will unlatch. Replace the two pivot bolts and tighten (Seat is heavy I used blocks of wood to elevate it while re-inserting the bolts, started the bolts on both side before tightening.).
Step 2 is to remove the "roll pin". Before I get into this here are a few pictures that show how the overall mechanism assembles and works.
 (280GE SWB Rear Seat Base Latch 001.JPG)
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280GE SWB Rear Seat Base Latch 001.JPG (278KB - 0 downloads)
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EdwinJ
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2012
Location: Quebec Ontario border, Canada
Vehicle(s): C280 1997, 280GE SWB 1983
Posts: 83
| RE: Rear Seat Base Release Latch
Picture above show main parts, below the "roll pin" and the "spring shaft":
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EdwinJ
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2012
Location: Quebec Ontario border, Canada
Vehicle(s): C280 1997, 280GE SWB 1983
Posts: 83
| RE: Rear Seat Base Release Latch
Following two pictures show how parts are assembled *they are not properly aligned to one another in these pictures, you have to fiddle to get the "roll pin" and "spring shaft" in properly at which point they will be correctly aligned).
It is important that both the "roll pin" and the "spring shaft" are assembled from the side closest to the front:
1. this allows the "roll pin" to be removed with a long punch if it breaks again without having to take the whole mechanism apart again (you will however have to get the "release lever", the "main shaft" and the "bolt" aligned correctly again - tedious process!); and
2. the "spring shaft" is slightly spread (notice the vertical grove cut at end opposite from where the spring attaches) so that it can be driven through the "latch" and "bolt" to fit almost flush with the back (non hook side) of the "latch" and protrude so that the spring can be attached (removal of the "spring shaft" is done by tapping with a hammer on the spring attach in the opposite direction.
I ended up taking everything apart since I did not know how everything went together BUT now that I know I BELIEVE it can be repaired in situ using a very thin steel pin to get the parts aligned - do this from the back part of the seat before you insert the "roll pin" and the "spring shaft". I do not plan to try this once I get everything back together!
Last comment is - before I had it figured out I cursed "German engineering". However, once you know how the repair process is "trivial" and you can see that all the important parts are very robust and should last forever. Only one caution the "spring shaft" end is easily broken unless you drive it out carefully in the correct direction (I know because I broke one, hopefully they are still available or I will have to machine a replacement!).
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EdwinJ
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2012
Location: Quebec Ontario border, Canada
Vehicle(s): C280 1997, 280GE SWB 1983
Posts: 83
| RE: Rear Seat Base Release Latch
I continue to have problems trying to attach pictures so will clean some of the explanatory text (hopefully it can be understood without the pictures). Will also try one last time to add photos.
The "roll pin" is approx. 5mm width and 22mm long; the "spring shaft" is 5mm width and 40mm long, has a circular cut on one end to hold spring and a vertical slash on the opposite end to increase the width so that it can be snugged down without falling out. The "roll pin" is removed using a long narrow punch from the back of the seat to the front; the "spring shaft" is removed by tapping with a hammer (again back to front). As I said above these can be removed in situ. If you end up with this no release problem I believe that one can remove the "roll pin" only, use a thin steel shaft to align the 3 parts (main shaft, release tab and the bolt that runs through the latch - latch is fixed to the bolt with the spring shaft). At the point the release mechanism no longer works the "roll pin" is broken internally but bits of it remain in place. You will have to get a new "roll pin" (should be a common easily obtained part) and re-insert from front side of seat toward the back.
Hopefully my explanations can be understood, if not feel free to PM me and I will try to elaborate. I also have more pictures that help, unfortunately I can no longer attach pictures to my posts.
Ted
Edited by EdwinJ 4/13/2014 8:26 AM
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EdwinJ
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2012
Location: Quebec Ontario border, Canada
Vehicle(s): C280 1997, 280GE SWB 1983
Posts: 83
| RE: Rear Seat Base Release Latch
[Scanned my laptop, found malware, cleaned it up and hoping that my issues with picture attachment are fixed.]
UPDATE: Still no joy, thinking about what to do next.
Edited by EdwinJ 4/13/2014 10:43 AM
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EdwinJ
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2012
Location: Quebec Ontario border, Canada
Vehicle(s): C280 1997, 280GE SWB 1983
Posts: 83
| RE: Rear Seat Base Release Latch
I kept thinking about having to remove the "roll pin" after it has broken, I suggested above that this could removed in situ without complete dis-assembly. This may be true but one would need to ensure that the release tab is positioned such that the holes are aligned with the hole through the main shaft. I suspect this may be very difficult to determine hence it will be necessary to completely disassemble in order to remove the remnants of the "role pin".
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