Welcome Guest. ( logon | register )   
FAQ Member List Albums Today's Posts Search

PointedThree :  Vans, Trucks, SUVs and Other Forums : G-Class : [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

Page 2 of 3 123
[G320] Cooling system issue & questions
Topic Tools Message Format
Author
Posted 6/11/2014 8:45 PM
fernweh



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
2000
Re: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

gerryvz - 6/11/2014 1:41 PM

nadd - 6/11/2014 3:33 PM Did one resourceful owner not use a length of cord or leather belt? Memory is very vague but I'm sure I read it somewhere.
Yes, there was a thread on this recently.  I think a length of nylon rope, with two knots about 2.5-3 inches apart at one end. Then you let the engine wind the rope around while turning over the motor.  But for emergency only.



Way back in 2006.....

I drove the 300GE for almost 2000 Miles with my cord trick. San Juan Mountains, Moab & Canyonlands....joined Dutch and some other hardcore Overlanders, and eliminated my overheating issue that way, until replacing the inop fan clutch.

Karl





(IMG_1975.jpg)



(IMG_1978.jpg)



(IMG_1998 (Medium).jpg)



(IMG_3012.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments IMG_1975.jpg (116KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1978.jpg (62KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1998 (Medium).jpg (81KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments IMG_3012.jpg (276KB - 3 downloads)
#222380 - in reply to #222377
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 6/15/2014 8:52 PM
kiato4
Veteran


Date registered: Aug 2013
Location: New York, NY
Vehicle(s): 1995 G320, 1985 190E 2.3-16
Posts: 161
100
Re: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

I had a similar G320 cooling issue, my radiator was in great shape and not blocked so I tried to figure out what else to do to upgrade the system. I was not happy with the temp gauge hitting 120 degrees C, fans coming on high, temp dropping, and then repeating the same thing over again every couple of minutes on hotter days or under medium to high loads.

I made a few upgrades:
- I replaced the fan clutch with the stock unit (part # 103 200 09 22).
- I replaced the factory 6 blade fan with a 9 blade fan from a G500 (part # 112 200 01 23). This fan had the same 460mm diameter, and was the only one I could find in either a 9 blade or 11 blade variety with the same diameter that the G320 had from the factory.
- I replaced the fan temp switch with the grey top (105/120 degrees switch) with one with a red top (100/110 degrees switch, part # 006 545 42 24). This is the lowest temperature turn on switch that Mercedes offers, and does essentially the same job as the cool resistor harness without cutting/soldering wiring. I left the high speed fan switch with the black top alone.

Result is that the temp gauge doesn't bounce all over the place and now holds steady at about the middle of the gauge, and the AC seems to blow much cooler. I can't tell you what the effect was from each of the individual upgrades since I did them all together, but I think the above is the best you can do for an easy upgrade with stock parts.
#222458 - in reply to #222306
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 6/16/2014 11:36 AM
gerryvz
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
300
Re: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

I drove the 300GE today for about 40 km because we drove to a nearby town here outside of Munich to pick up the custom-made 3.6-liter M103 which will be installed in the G later this summer. The temperature gauge never left the 90C range the whole trip.





(2014-06-16 11.23.34.jpg)



(2014-06-16 11.26.52.jpg)



(2014-06-16 11.27.27.jpg)



(2014-06-16 11.34.29.jpg)



(2014-06-16 11.34.44.jpg)



(2014-06-16 11.35.27.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 2014-06-16 11.23.34.jpg (255KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments 2014-06-16 11.26.52.jpg (292KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments 2014-06-16 11.27.27.jpg (276KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments 2014-06-16 11.34.29.jpg (228KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments 2014-06-16 11.34.44.jpg (293KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments 2014-06-16 11.35.27.jpg (232KB - 0 downloads)
#222471 - in reply to #222306
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 6/16/2014 1:11 PM
AlanMcR
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
2000
RE: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

Maybe it's just me, but that engine seems a few parts short of "made".
#222473 - in reply to #222306
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 6/19/2014 3:10 AM
gerryvz
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
300
RE: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

AlanMcR - 6/16/2014 12:11 PM Maybe it's just me, but that engine seems a few parts short of "made".
assembling the accessories on an engine that is out of the car is quite an easy job.  The most difficult assembly of the top and bottom ends of the motor is already well completed. For the mechanic who is doing the installation work, it will be two days work max to complete & then install this motor into the G after removing the existing M103 (perhaps 4-6 hours work to remove the engine).
#222526 - in reply to #222473
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 6/19/2014 6:54 AM
Titus Pullo
Elite Veteran




Date registered: May 2007
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Vehicle(s): '90 Wolf 240GD, '06 G270 CDI.
Posts: 1010
1000
Re: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

Does it comes with spare pistons and cranckshaft?
Taking the m103 out of W463 takes 2.5 hours. BTDT
#222529 - in reply to #222306
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 6/19/2014 9:49 AM
AlanMcR
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
2000
RE: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

gerryvz - 6/19/2014 12:10 AM
AlanMcR - 6/16/2014 12:11 PM Maybe it's just me, but that engine seems a few parts short of "made".
assembling the accessories on an engine that is out of the car is quite an easy job.  The most difficult assembly of the top and bottom ends of the motor is already well completed. For the mechanic who is doing the installation work, it will be two days work max to complete & then install this motor into the G after removing the existing M103 (perhaps 4-6 hours work to remove the engine).

It was the pistons on the pallet that prompted my comment.



Edited by AlanMcR 6/19/2014 10:38 AM
#222534 - in reply to #222526
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 7/5/2014 5:56 PM
gerryvz
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
300
Re: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

Those pistons and crank on the pallet were spares from the original M103, before the original was bored out, 3.2L M104 pistons installed, and the OM603 crankshaft installed with BMW 140mm conrods to make a 3.6L engine.

Getting back to the original premise for the thread, I'm happy to report that the problem has been solved with a new MB fan clutch. I had ordered a new clutch from the Classic Center just before I left for my annual European holiday on June 12th, so it arrived while I was gone.

Just got home on Thursday afternoon, and installed the new clutch this morning. Total job took about 30 minutes -- refreshing because it ended up being easier than the M104 in my wife's 1995 E320 wagon was.

What made the job easier was the "emergency" piece that allows you to bend the pins into the fan clutch. Basically unlike the 104.992, and M103 engines, which have a groove in the pulley cover on the engine and a hole in the back of the fan pulley, the 104.996 in the G320 doesn't have this. Instead, you have to use (or fabricate) a spanner to use as a counter-hold on the four pulley bolts.

Except I didn't have to do this. Rather, I used one of the large holes in the base of the emergency pin-piece and inserted a 90-degree hooked awl into the hole and then in between two blades of the fan clutch housing. This wedging effect served as an effective counter-hold that allowed me to use a long Allen key to loosen the center fan clutch bolt. Then I used the aforementioned socket with my fingers to further loosen and back out the fan clutch bolt. Replacement was the reverse of assembly.

I also replaced the thermostat with a new Behr unit, as well as the two temperature senders, just for good measure.

I confirmed via the "94" date code on the fan clutch that it was the original Sachs unit.

The results were immediate: driving in stop and go traffic, with max AC in 90-92F Houston summer temps today...waiting for long stoplights, etc., the temperature was always between 85 and 95C in all driving, even under heavy load. The highest temp I saw in about 30 miles of driving was an indicated 98C at a long stop light, and immediately back down to 90-92C upon the vehicle moving again.

I'll attach some photos of the fan clutch replacement process using the procedure I described above. The torque values for the fan are 10Nm for the three fan-to-clutch bolts, and 45Nm for the center fan Allen bolt to pulley.

Cheers,
Gerry
#222758 - in reply to #222306
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 7/5/2014 6:20 PM
gerryvz
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
300
RE: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

Here is a photo pictorial of the steps required to remove and replace the fan clutch in a 1995 G320 (M104 gas engine).

I hope this is helpful to someone in the future.

Tools required are a 90-degree hooked awl-type tool; a flat-blade screwdriver; a 7mm Allen key (long is better); and the special 7mm MB "stubby" socket for the fan clutch bolt (this is not required but makes the job a bit easier).

It's also a good idea, before starting the job, to insert a piece of cardboard on the backside of the radiator to protect the fins from any accidental bumping or gouging from the Allen key and socket used to remove the fan clutch center bolt.

Key steps:

  • Remove the fan shroud by releasing the top retainer
  • Twist the smaller (rear) portion of the fan shroud and move it backward over the fan toward the cylinder head
  • Remove the two metal fan shroud retaining clips on the sides of the shroud. A small or medium flat-blade screwdriver makes this job a simple flick of the wrist
  • Carefully lift the larger (front-most) portion of the fan shroud upward and lift it out of the engine compartment
  • Move the smaller portion of the fan shroud forward off of the fan, and lift it out of the engine compartment
  • Using the 90-degree hooked tool, wedge the end of the tool through one of the holes in the base of the emergency pin piece and in between two of the aluminum fan clutch blades. Turn the fan slightly to solidly wedge the tool in place
  • Carefully insert the short end of the Allen key into the center fan clutch bolt. Turn the Allen key counter-clockwise (as you face the radiator from the front of the vehicle) and loosen the center bolt, holding the handle of the hooked tool in the other hand to keep it securely wedged into place
  • Remove the Allen key and insert the stubby MB socket into the center fan clutch bolt. Turn the socket with your fingers in a counter-clockwise direction to remove and then extract the bolt. If you don't have this socket, you can remove the bolt with more turns of the Allen key, until you can grip the head of the bolt with your fingers to remove it.
  • Remove the bolt and then CAREFULLY wiggle the fan/clutch assembly back and forth to loosen it from the pulley.  DO NOT let the fan/clutch assembly touch the back of the radiator so as to avoid damage to the radiator and/or cardboard protecting the fins
  • Once the fan/clutch assembly is removed, use a 5mm Allen key to loosen and remove the three bolts holding the clutch to the fan
  • Use brake cleaner or other solvent to clean the fan assembly, as needed
  • Re-install the clutch into the fan, and then the fan/clutch back onto the front of the motor, using the reverse of the previously outlined steps

 

Cheers,
Gerry





(IMG_5558.JPG)



(IMG_5557.JPG)



(IMG_5554.JPG)



(IMG_5553.JPG)



(IMG_5552.JPG)



(IMG_5549.JPG)



(IMG_5550.jpg)



(IMG_5548.JPG)



(IMG_5545.JPG)



(IMG_5544.JPG)



(IMG_5525.JPG)



(IMG_5526.JPG)



(IMG_5528.JPG)



(IMG_5531.JPG)



(IMG_5532.JPG)



(IMG_5534.JPG)



(IMG_5537.JPG)



(IMG_5539.JPG)



(IMG_5541.jpg)



(IMG_5542.JPG)



(IMG_5543.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments IMG_5558.JPG (118KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5557.JPG (112KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5554.JPG (168KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5553.JPG (148KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5552.JPG (65KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5549.JPG (115KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5550.jpg (87KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5548.JPG (88KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5545.JPG (85KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5544.JPG (145KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5525.JPG (139KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5526.JPG (157KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5528.JPG (146KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5531.JPG (156KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5532.JPG (140KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5534.JPG (148KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5537.JPG (153KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5539.JPG (131KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5541.jpg (185KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5542.JPG (114KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5543.JPG (150KB - 0 downloads)
#222759 - in reply to #222306
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 7/7/2014 7:09 AM
J.R.
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
500
RE: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

Well Done! A successful diagnosis and fix is a great feeling. On to more I am sure...
#222774 - in reply to #222306
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 7/7/2014 7:48 AM
gerryvz
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
300
Re: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

Thank you .. indeed much less stress driving the truck. Always more to do....
#222776 - in reply to #222306
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 8/1/2014 10:40 AM
gerryvz
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
300
Re: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

Just a quick update report on this. After almost a month, driving daily in the Houston heat (it's about 93-96 every day with 80-95% humidity) I am happy to report that the G is running 87-90C in traffic, with temps climbing up to the 95-100C mark at long stop lights and in heavy traffic jams. I have not seen the temp climb above 100C since installing the new fan clutch.

Thanks to everyone for their advice and encouragement. I'm now satisfied that the truck is running how it should be.

I also had to replace an intermittently failing coil pack in the M104, which helped an occasionally slightly rough idle and power issue from takeoff, when the engine was hot.

Cheers,
Gerry
#223222 - in reply to #222306
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 8/1/2014 10:32 PM
nadd
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UAE, Dubai
Vehicle(s): G500 2016 LHD, numerous Chevys
Posts: 1285
1000
Re: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

Great to hear you are sorted!
#223234 - in reply to #222306
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 8/2/2014 7:54 AM
Brent
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
1000
Re: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

gerryvz - 8/1/2014 8:40 AM

I also had to replace an intermittently failing coil pack in the M104, which helped an occasionally slightly rough idle and power issue from takeoff, when the engine was hot.

Cheers,
Gerry


Keep in mind that failing coil packs are often related to shorts in the engine wiring harness. I bought a few coils before identifying the harness as the culprit. If your truck is still on the original "enviromentally friendly" wiring harness, I think it is worth a thorough inspection.
#223238 - in reply to #223222
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 8/2/2014 6:05 PM
gerryvz
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
300
Re: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

I will be ordering a new harness very soon. I got a great deal from MBUSA for one.
#223243 - in reply to #222306
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 8/10/2014 10:20 PM
DesertStar
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
2000
Re: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

I opted to replace all cooling hoses and vacuum lines(under intake manifold) and the serpentine belt...in hindsight, I should of did this when I did the wiring harness and saved a few steps and SCRATCHES.

I have never seen so many hoses.  Might of been a little overkill as some of the hoses were OK, I should be good for the next 20 years.

Mike





(IMG_0946 copy.jpg)



(g320hose1.jpg)



(IMG_0956 copy.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments IMG_0946 copy.jpg (109KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments g320hose1.jpg (49KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_0956 copy.jpg (111KB - 0 downloads)
#223373 - in reply to #223243
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 8/10/2014 10:49 PM
gerryvz
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
300
Re: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

Yes, it's a good idea to replace all rubber bits. And in addition to the upper harness, don't forget the ETA (cable and interior wiring go bad) and the lower harness (which isn't quite as bad as it doesn't get the "heat bake" like the upper one does.

Seeing as the head gaskets like to give way every 100-125K miles on the M104s, seems a perfect time to renew the rubber bits too. Not to mention the upper front timing covers, which in my experience tend to let go every 50-75K miles.

Here's the parts I replaced last winter when I refreshed the top end of my wife's 1995 E320 engine (basically the same as the G320). http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5082







(IMG_4708.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments IMG_4708.JPG (280KB - 0 downloads)
#223374 - in reply to #222306
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 8/11/2014 1:07 AM
DesertStar
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
2000
Re: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

That's a lot of parts man !  My ETA has been changed  out and maybe even a rebuilt unit as it has a 1996 tag on it (I should of spliced into it and inspected).  At 165K, I am under the assumption the head gasket has been done along with no signs of needing repair.  I do think the plugs,wires and coils I replaced were original...quite brittle, original MB logos and plugs had a gap twice of what they should be.  

Changing out serpentine belts is always the best.....I try to route the belt by memory for 30 minutes to no avail,  then I look at a photo and two minutes later it is complete.

From your photo, it looks like one of your injectors still has its old seal. 

Mike

#223375 - in reply to #223374
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 8/11/2014 7:31 AM
Inkblotz
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
2000
Re: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

DesertStar - 8/10/2014 10:20 PM

I opted to replace all cooling hoses and vacuum lines(under intake manifold) and the serpentine belt...in hindsight, I should of did this when I did the wiring harness and saved a few steps and SCRATCHES.

I have never seen so many hoses.  Might of been a little overkill as some of the hoses were OK, I should be good for the next 20 years.

Mike



Nice Phone Mike.


Mark
#223378 - in reply to #223373
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 8/11/2014 11:21 PM
gerryvz
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
300
Re: [G320] Cooling system issue & questions

From your photo, it looks like one of your injectors still has its old seal.
All injectors were completely refurbished and flow-tested before and after by DeatschWerks in Oklahoma, so I think they are OK.  Received new seals and caps.




(IMG_4423.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments IMG_4423.jpg (224KB - 0 downloads)
#223400 - in reply to #223375
Top of the page Bottom of the page
« View previous thread :: View next thread »
Page 2 of 3 123
Forum Jump :
All times are EST.  The time is now 12:34:07 AM.

Execution: 0.422 seconds, 110 cached, 15 executed.