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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| New to the G, but not to MB . . .
Hi everyone -
I have just been able to finally acquire a G500! It's a 2003 with 83K on the clock, Tektite gray and black interior. The original buyer checked off most options except for the towing package (which I am in the process of adding). It even has the Bluetooth puck that paired with my iPhone perfectly. It has new tires, new brakes and rotors, and a fresh service. This truck has spent most of its life parked at the country club, so it seems to be in very good nick.
This board has been a great resource even before I purchased the G in that re-reading various threads gave me the "heads up" on what to look for. As a new G owner, I know I will have the usual twenty stupid questions as time goes on, but as with every MB I have or have owned, each is a learning experience. Much of what I know from other models may apply to the G, but it is clear that there is a tremendous wealth of knowledge here that I hope to learn from. I would like to say thank you all in advance to those on this board for any help you provide!
- FD
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: New to the G, but not to MB . . .
Congrats and welcome! Many adventures ahead I'm sure.
-Dave G. |
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t_b
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Virginia, USA
Vehicle(s): 2006 G500
Posts: 50
| RE: New to the G, but not to MB . . .
You're at good number of miles at which to clean out and re-grease your intermediate drive shaft CV joints, or at the very least check the boots for cracks and go from there. |
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| RE: New to the G, but not to MB . . .
t_b -
Thank you for the suggestion. I did indeed go out and re-inspect the various drive shafts and sure enough, I found a crack on the rear CV boot of the center shaft. Somehow I missed that on my initial inspection. The crack is at the narrow part of the boot so I don't think the CV grease has "flung out", but the fact that the boot is open means that water can get in. I suspect that all might not be well with the rear CV joint.
As part of my "research" into a G, I "studied up" on some of the common issues and the center drive shaft is one of them. It seems that the options are bend over and buy one from MB, pull the shaft, inspect the CV joints and hope I just need new boots, and if the joint(s) are toast, buy a GKN CV rebuild kit. The problem, as I understand it, with the latter options is getting the drive shaft balanced after the CV joints afterward.
So, are there any other options? What would people on the board (who have a lot more G experience than I do) recommend? I don't want to let it go lest I damage the bearings/seals on the transfer case.
Thanks!
- FD
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: New to the G, but not to MB . . .
Floobydust - 6/22/2014 6:56 PM
So, are there any other options? What would people on the board (who have a lot more G experience than I do) recommend? I don't want to let it go lest I damage the bearings/seals on the transfer case.
Thanks!
- FD
Another option is to buy the complete GKN shaft from a supplier like EuroTruck. It's complete and considerably less expensive than the MB labeled identical shaft from the same maker. |
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t_b
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Virginia, USA
Vehicle(s): 2006 G500
Posts: 50
| RE: New to the G, but not to MB . . .
So, are there any other options?
Cracked boot or not the grease in your CVs is done by now and has likely hardened after more than a decade (assuming it hasn't been replaced/serviced).
My rear boot was cracked as well, also on the skinnier shaft side. When I disassembled my CVs the front and rear looked essentially the same - caked, a bit pliable and certainly not anything like grease.
I opted for the CV boot kits and that was all I needed. Unless you already have a driveline imbalance then the rebuild kit is probably overkill. Some people prefer overkill, however! 
And I wouldn't worry about balancing the shaft if you're just going to re-boot/re-grease the CVs. Mark the plated steel covers and the CV outer race so that you can note how they were aligned. Before you pull it apart also note the position of both boot ring crimps, and then place the crimps in the same location when you button everything back together - easy.
If I were doing the complete CV overhaul I would certainly opt to have it balanced, as new and heavy parts are being introduced.
You'll be very intimate with the underside of your G by the time you're done. 
Edited by t_b 6/22/2014 8:40 PM
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| RE: New to the G, but not to MB . . .
DUTCH - 6/22/2014 7:27 PM
Floobydust - 6/22/2014 6:56 PM
So, are there any other options? What would people on the board (who have a lot more G experience than I do) recommend? I don't want to let it go lest I damage the bearings/seals on the transfer case.
Thanks!
- FD
Another option is to buy the complete GKN shaft from a supplier like EuroTruck. It's complete and considerably less expensive than the MB labeled identical shaft from the same maker.
That is the option I would prefer as I would like a "one and done" scenario as I hope to keep the G for some time, but their website says that are "sold out" of the complete GKN shaft. Also, if the wife finds out that the new "thing" I bought needs more work, I will be dead, or at least in dry dock for quite some time. I will call them in the AM to see what the scoop is and see if they expect to have more. Thanks! |
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| RE: New to the G, but not to MB . . .
Well, I checked with euro-truck and while they are expecting the GKN drives hafts, they don't know for sure when they will get them. They do have the CV re-build kits, but finding someone to balance the re-built shaft is difficult, if not impossible. I find it interesting that there are no balancing weights or drill spots to indicate that these shafts have been balanced, so I'm not sure what the manufacturer actually does to "balance" the shafts.
I took the G out for a careful road test and I noted that there seems to be a little drive line vibration over a very narrow speed range of 58 - 60 mph. The high "Q" of this vibrational mode tells me that whatever is causing it is something of a low weight that is turning fast. In other words, most likely the small first drive shaft.
I also took out my endoscopic camera system and "scoped" the CV joint with the cracked flex boot. That showed that there is still grease around the ball bearings and carrier, but water has clearly been getting in as the shaft itself has rust spots on it. The grease is still "shiny" and clean, but I can't see if the ball bearing have been damaged due to resolution limits on my scope. My scope, in theory, has a picture capture function, but I haven't been able to get it to work so far or I would post a picture of the inside of the CV joint.
I am reticent to drive the G much with the shaft in this condition as I do not want to damage the transfer case bearings/seals, so it looks like my only option at this point is to pull the handle and flush a kilo-buck on the MB drive shaft. If anyone has any further suggestions, I'm all ears!
Thanks,
- FD
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MiN
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Alpujarras, Spain
Vehicle(s): No cars, at all.
Posts: 555
| Re: New to the G, but not to MB . . .
You haven't said whether you've checked the CV joints for wear, i.e. is there any vertical movement?
You should be able to move the shaft backward and forwards but you need to grab it and try and move it up and down near each CV joint. If there's noticeable movement then you will need to change the CV.
If there's no vertical movement then the CVs are ok and all you need to do is change the boot/s, having regreased the CVs while you're at it. |
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| Re: New to the G, but not to MB . . .
MiN -
Thanks for the info. When I checked the shaft play with the transfer case in gear, I could not detect any vertical play. However, when I put the TC in neutral so I could turn the shaft, I found that that rear CV joint had vertical play with the shaft in certain orientations. The front one is completely tight, but it looks like the rear CV joint is toast.
I am going to check tomorrow to see if I can find a drive line shop that can/will do a high speed balance on this shaft. There is one in North Carolina that does VW CV joint axles (which use essentially the same CV joint) and can balance up to 9K RPM. We'll see if they will do an MB shaft. That would be ~$215 for the GKN kit plus balancing. If not, I will break out the Vaseline and order up a new MB drive shaft (463 410 07 02).
I am still having trouble understanding how this particular drive shaft can be balanced by merely rotating the retaining clips of the CV boots. If you look at the rotational inertia for the unbalanced weight for these versus the potential unbalanced weight contained within the CV joint and shaft, I don't see how it is possible for them to "counteract" each other. I must be missing something.
Thanks again,
- FD
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| RE: New to the G, but not to MB . . . Driveshaaft outcome
Well, I decided to take a bit of a leap - I ordered a CV rebuild kit for the bad joint, a boot kit for the good one, and 12 new nuts from the nice folks at Euro Truck and, after reviewing the DIY on homeokinetic drive shaft service (thank you G-AMG) I set about rebuilding of my current drive shaft.
I carefully marked the position of the CV joints relative to the flanges on the TC and transmission. I located these marks where the large CV boot clamps were so I got a two for one. In addition, I marked the position of the small clamps.
And, I also marked the position of the CV joints relative to each other and the shaft (e.g., the "phasing"). I know that, in theory, Rzeppa joints like those on this shaft do not need to be "phased", but the reality is that ball bearings have mass and races have friction, so there can be difference in required rotational torque as a function of both angle of rotation and angle of deflection. So, for better or for worse, I maintained the OEM phasing.
I found the following to be a slight improvement over the procedure in the DIY. I put the TC in neutral and left the transmission in neutral until I rotated the drive shaft so the one of the bolts was exactly at the bottom. I then put the transmission into park which locked the shaft. In this position, the bottom three bolts at end end could then be removed (I used a ratchet handle to "break" the nuts and then a air ratchet to zip them off). I then put the transmission into neutral again, rotated the shaft 180 degrees, and repeated. It took me less than 20 minutes to drop the drive shaft. One thing I noticed is that the original nuts required a 17mm wrench while the new ones require a 16mm wrench. This meant the the original nuts were effectively "stopped" by the flange whereas the new nuts required a counter-wrench to prevent spinning, so this procedure may not work as well if your shaft has smaller nuts.
I did not remove the good CV joint and just re-packed it on the shaft. The OEM grease is very soluble in mineral spirits, so I used that for the bulk clean out, followed by brake cleaner until squeaky clean. I also discovered that one can remove the balls one at at time (so they remain in the same location), fill their raceway with grease, an put them back in. I installed the new CV joint, preserving the phasing of the original and packed with grease. I packed the entire 120 gram tube that came with each kit into each joint.
The DIY says to use channel-lock pliers to clamp then CV covers on, but I purchased six extra (shorter) bolts from the hardware store so that I could bolt the two CV covers into place while the sealant set - just tapping them on and compressing with the pliers did not result in an even fit. I felt this was important for two reasons - one, I wanted the seal to be perfect and the sealant instructions assume you will be installing the CV joint to the flange within 20 minutes (never going to happen) and two, it is just barely possible to get the drive shaft back into position, even when compressed to the max. If the covers are not firmly pressed onto the CV joint, it will be impossible.
After the CV joints themselves were done and the new boots were in place, I firmly clamped the small boot clamps per the marks from the original locations. I clamped the large ones somewhat tight, but still loose enough that I could rotate them if I had to.
Re-installing the drive shaft was a pain in the ***! I had to use some drill bits as "pins" to hold the rear CV in place relative to its flange while prying the front CV to be parallel to the transmission flange. Ouch.
Once the shaft was "in", I used the air ratchet set to 20 N-m to quickly tighten the bolts/nuts into position. I then used the torque wrench to tighten in a cross pattern to 60 N-m as stated in the DIY.
I didn't need to take advantage of the ability to rotate the clamps because the shaft was as smooth as butter right out of the gate! I re-clamped the large clamps, and opened a well deserved beer (or two). This process is certainly something that probably needs adult supervision, but it worked well for me.
Thanks again to everyone for your help,
- FD
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| RE: New to the G, but not to MB . . . Driveshaaft outcome
I removed the intermediate drive shaft and sure enough, trying to pry it in sideways broke the seal between the boot flange and the actual CV joint. I could have learned from my experience, resealed things, and put it back in by first loosening the TC so I don't have to pry it in. BUT, upon re-inspection, it also appears like the front CV joint has play in it, so I decided to just say uncle, and order a new shaft. Correct orientation of the re-built shaft is easy because I marked the orientation, but I am unsure how to orient a new drive shaft. I have found some references to lining up the green dots to the drill holes on the flanges, but nothing really definitive.
Does anyone know the correct procedure for a new shaft installation? Is the procedure in the WIS? If so, does anyone have the WIS procedure?
Thanks!
- FD
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MiN
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Alpujarras, Spain
Vehicle(s): No cars, at all.
Posts: 555
| Re: New to the G, but not to MB . . .
Go to this website: http://www.mercedestechstore.com/pdfs/index.htm
Under 'Files for 217 Training' download the booklet names 'Axles'. Page 8 of that booklet give you guidance on fitting the shaft.
In fact, while you're there, download files HO-01 to JA G component locator'. |
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| Re: New to the G, but not to MB . . .
MiN -
Thank you for the link and the information. The new MB shaft arrived and it had no markings whatsoever on it - no green dot, no nothing. Inspection of the flanges on the truck also showed no color mark from which to be 180 degrees out of phase. So I installed the shaft with the crimped portion of the large clamps close to the drilled "balance" holes on the flanges. I did this because this is the orientation seen in all of the pictures that I have found with the shafts in place and it was the orientation on my truck to start with. I did note that two bolt holes had been "used' on the new the shaft assembly, presumably when the shaft was spun up to check balance.
Well, the G is mobile now, but the vibration at 58 - 60 MPH is still there. I am bummed! I tend not to suspect the intermediate drive shaft for several reasons. First, this is the third drive shaft configuration that has been on the car (original with bad CV, re-built, but leaky drive shaft, and now, new MB drive shaft) and vibrational characteristics have not changed that much. Second, if I put the TC in low and run the car to 27-30 MPH (which is the same intermediate shaft speed at 58 - 60 MPH in high), there is absolutely no vibration. And third, the vibration lets up if you lift off the throttle which is a classic U-joint/slip joint play symptom. So I am thinking that one of the other two drive shaft is the source of the vibration. I'm not sure how to do the differential diagnosis (pardon the pun) on this one . . . . I'm really hating my new G right now.
I did a postmortem on the rebuilt drive shaft and I found two things. One, as I suspected, I dented the sheet metal CV joint covers prying it in which resulted in a gap in the sealant. Centrifugal force forced the grease to fling out of the breach. And two, I did not get the clamp I left loose in order to "balance" the shaft tight enough. The grease that normally resides in the boot was flung out because of this. I absolutely recommend that anyone doing and R&R on this shaft loosen the TC mounting bolts (under five minutes to do this) and slide it back to give clearance to install the shaft. I'm going to re-grease the old shaft and reassemble it and keep it as a spare.
I'm going to have a Scotch and think about this.
Thanks,
- FD
Edited by Floobydust 7/18/2014 10:06 PM
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| RE: Front CV Joint . . .
I think I read somewhere out on the net that it is possible to remove the swivel housing, withdraw the axle, CV, and hub assembly (including the outer swivel section) and inspect the CV joint boots without removing the hub and disturbing the wheel bearings (or more specifically, the bearing pre-load). Try as I might, I can't find that reference now, so I would like to ask the board if it is indeed possible. There is "black" grease in the right front swivel (and the proper green grease in the other), so I want to inspect the boot and replace the axle seal and axle bushing. The bearings have no play, so I would prefer not to mess with them right now.
Thanks!
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: Front CV Joint . . .
Yes the assembly can be withdrawn if the upper and lower swivel pins are withdrawn (four bolts each) from the swivel housing and the ball seal removed. Brake caliper will have to come off first, or disconnect lines as you choose.
-Dave G. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Front CV Joint . . .
hipine - 8/17/2014 10:45 AM
Yes the assembly can be withdrawn if the upper and lower swivel pins are withdrawn (four bolts each) from the swivel housing and the ball seal removed. Brake caliper will have to come off first, or disconnect lines as you choose.
-Dave G.
Once all of that is removed, you will still probably have to rotate the assembly while pulling it out in order to clear the diff lock sleeve. The same is true in reverse when putting it back together. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: Front CV Joint . . .
hipine - 8/17/2014 8:45 AM
Yes the assembly can be withdrawn if the upper and lower swivel pins are withdrawn (four bolts each) from the swivel housing and the ball seal removed. Brake caliper will have to come off first, or disconnect lines as you choose.
-Dave G.
heck yes, you can do that. But why? You will not be able to work on the CV joint - not even replace the boot.
It's like shortcuts in the desert - they usually take longer. |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: New to the G, but not to MB . . .
I thought I managed to reboot mine without pulling the shaft out of the axle ball. If I am remembering correctly, the clearance to access the larger boot clamp was very tight. Lots of fiddling to get it loose and then to apply and lock the new one. Note that you will need the tool described here: Link: CV Joint Rebuild to get the strap on properly. If my memory is right, it can be fit into the space between the large end of the CV and the axle ball housing. Not sure which side you are working on. If it includes the locker, then it can be difficult to line up the locker ring so that it lets the axle shaft out. The trick is to apply the front locker while turning the shaft and pulling it out.
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| Where there's smoke, there's fire . . .
I pulled the right axle today and indeed it was very straightforward, although a tad bit messy. Sure enough, black grease = bad CV boot. There was still plenty of grease in the CV joint itself, the joint appears to have no play, and the balls appear to be in good condition. Normally, I think this would call for a quick re-boot, but nothing is every easy with this G. Take a look at the picture I posted - see something missing? Yes, the circlip is missing the tab on one side so there is no way to compress the circlip to remove the axle and install a new boot.
So I am again stumped as to what to do. I'm not sure how to get the circlip out so I can install a new boot. Has anyone had this happen to them and have a solution? Do I have to replace a very expensive axle for a 50 cent circlip (seems to be a theme on the G)? Strangely, I was also hoping to see some CV damage as that would present a possible cause for the vibration issue I have been having (I ruled out the three main drive shafts). Even if I get the clip out (and a replacement is available), I'm not sure this will solve the vibration issue, so should I be thinking about a new axle/CV? I do have a new inner axle bushing as well (thinking that there might be too much play, thus allowing the axle to vibrate), but I don't know if I'm barking up the right tree.
Thanks,
- FD
 (CV Joint Small.jpg)
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 CV Joint Small.jpg (311KB - 3 downloads)
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