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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| Read this now please
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54930
My personal recommendation is that this topic be locked and not discussed in open forum. Just making folks aware. Post 267 pg 14.
-Dave G.
Edited by hipine 7/15/2014 11:55 PM
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koly
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500
Posts: 823
| RE: Read this now please
The source for post 267 pg 14 originated on Expeditionportal.com...
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/129107-40-Imported-De...(developing-story)?p=1625154#post1625154
I was just about to post something similar Dave... |
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Brent
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
| RE: Read this now please
Today it is vehicles, tomorrow it will probably be your firearms. This is a practice run, I suspect it is just the beginning. We as a society have made sooooo many stupid rules over the last few decades that just about every one of us is a criminal subject to search and siezure for one harmless crime or another. Exactly how most overbearing governments act just prior to coming apart at the seams. Siezed trucks are just the beginning folks. |
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fernweh
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
| RE: Read this now please
Kind of a sad story.....
I read almost all the pages, and found a funny line in between all that horror:
One guy was hiding his LR somewhere out of state, but the fresh oil drips still showed were his baby was parked before!
WE are so lucky, that the Home Land Security guys can't find any of the (possible) illegal G-wagen, based on oil stains.....unless it's a Diesel 
BTW it is all Bush's fault, he should have stayed in Kenya.
Karl |
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motoxo
Member
Date registered: Jul 2010
Location:
Vehicle(s):
Posts: 22
| Re: Read this now please
so ... i just sent this info to my defender 90 buddy. this is some stupid crap they are pulling. my g is my main car and i know it's history & imported the car myself using my name on the records.
i'm hoping that means i'm okay & not part of this dhs dragnet.
why are they really doing this and not just stopping the cars when they try to get re-registered? lots of money is being spent on what amounts to 160 cars. this is a super small percentage of the cars out there on the road that (a larger percent) are not maintained and probably unsafer than these. |
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stevegsmith
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SF Bay Area, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 82 300GD WVO, 06 Jeep Lib CRD B99
Posts: 1301
| Re: Read this now please
Karl, this is clearly Obama. It's always Obama even before it was Obama. ;-) Damn Obama!!
Motoxo, this is mainly about one dealer in particular….for the moment. It's a page turner that's for sure. I went over there thinking I would just read the first couple of posts. 25 minutes later I was scratching my forearm looking for more. Damn you Dave.
I buried my kids pellet gun in the yard last night. I think we're good……for now. Wait, I hear helicopters!! Got to go!!! |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Read this now please
Eh, so much for Steve. If you can hear the helicopters, it is too late.
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Titus Pullo
Elite Veteran
Date registered: May 2007
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Vehicle(s): '90 Wolf 240GD, '06 G270 CDI.
Posts: 1010
| RE: Read this now please
well...welcome to the free world. where you are free to work as slave, pay taxes and mortgage. thats it. The democracy sucks. |
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Chris
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
Vehicle(s): 2012 G550, 2012 GL350 BT
Posts: 241
| Re: Read this now please
I will offer asylum to all questionable vehicles, not fussy. G's or defenders, All welcome. Kindly send with all keys and bill of sale made out to me! Thank you! lol
That really sucks for those Defender owners. I would be heart broken and pissed amongst many feelings! |
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Brent
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
| Re: Read this now please
stevegsmith - 7/16/2014 10:04 AM
Karl, this is clearly Obama. It's always Obama even before it was Obama. ;-) Damn Obama!!
Motoxo, this is mainly about one dealer in particular….for the moment. It's a page turner that's for sure. I went over there thinking I would just read the first couple of posts. 25 minutes later I was scratching my forearm looking for more. Damn you Dave.
I buried my kids pellet gun in the yard last night. I think we're good……for now. Wait, I hear helicopters!! Got to go!!!
Mock all you like. History is very clear about these types of actions. It has happened in every failed society. Agents of the state sent to confiscate private citizens property. There are MANY and MUCH more pressing issues for hundreds of federal agents across the country to be doing. How did Rovers make the list? It is simply a test.
There will not be helicopters for guys like Steve. I suspect he will load up willingly, trusting his elected officials right to the end. |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Read this now please
From a reading of the very long thread, it seems as though this involves a single unscrupulous seller. There seems to be a mishmash of claims: falsified paperwork, VIN switching, possible cobbling together from stolen parts. Feel sorry for the buyers who were taken, especially for the 2nd and 3rd hand buyers. Hopefully some of the vehicles will be cleared, or can be re-imported correctly.
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stevegsmith
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SF Bay Area, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 82 300GD WVO, 06 Jeep Lib CRD B99
Posts: 1301
| Re: Read this now please
X2 Alan.
Ok Brent. You're right. As usual.
Sorry Dave. Crazy stuff man. No doubt you know some of those guys. |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
| Re: Read this now please
Test drove a couple of NAS Defenders in 1999-2000 before I got my 300GD. I do feel sorry for these fellows as a VIN swapped 350cdi seems like it might be worth it. But the Land Rovers are not quite at the level of the G's we are privileged to own and drive. Just because you are buying a vehicle that is 25 years old, doesn't mean it was 25 years when it was brought in. Even if it was old enough and brought in without paying duties and customs fees, them it is illegal.
Owning a stolen or illegally imported car is a risk. Due diligence will provide some protection, but these purchases are more of an emotional decision, and emotions distort our ability to make sound decisions. This is an example of law enforcement enforcing the law. While I am sympathetic to these owners, I also know that the import laws were likely a secondary concern to the buyers at the time of purchase.
Recourse against the dealer is unlikely to be productive. |
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MazWest
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Benelux
Vehicle(s): E220T, 250GD LWB Wolf
Posts: 180
| RE: Read this now please
Brent - 7/16/2014 2:11 PM
Today it is vehicles, tomorrow it will probably be your firearms. This is a practice run, I suspect it is just the beginning. We as a society have made sooooo many stupid rules over the last few decades that just about every one of us is a criminal subject to search and siezure for one harmless crime or another. Exactly how most overbearing governments act just prior to coming apart at the seams. Siezed trucks are just the beginning folks.
It’s not too late but will soon be. Time to implement your contingency plan.
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koly
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500
Posts: 823
| Re: Read this now please
otiswesty - 7/16/2014 9:35 PM
Test drove a couple of NAS Defenders in 1999-2000 before I got my 300GD. I do feel sorry for these fellows as a VIN swapped 350cdi seems like it might be worth it. But the Land Rovers are not quite at the level of the G's we are privileged to own and drive. Just because you are buying a vehicle that is 25 years old, doesn't mean it was 25 years when it was brought in. Even if it was old enough and brought in without paying duties and customs fees, them it is illegal.
Owning a stolen or illegally imported car is a risk. Due diligence will provide some protection, but these purchases are more of an emotional decision, and emotions distort our ability to make sound decisions. This is an example of law enforcement enforcing the law. While I am sympathetic to these owners, I also know that the import laws were likely a secondary concern to the buyers at the time of purchase.
Recourse against the dealer is unlikely to be productive.
Yes, some people probably tried to get something too good to be true. However, there are a lot more details to the story beyond the 'emotional purchase' and 'sound decision.' You should go read the complete thread and related material that is currently available before discounting a buyer's 'emotional' regard for import laws.
That in mind, all of these vehicles:
1. made it through customs (how did that happen if they are here illegally? Where was law enforcement then?)
2. had import duties paid
and most:
3. have been licensed and registered for several years
4. had sales taxes paid on them after being purchased from a governmentally licensed car dealer
There are quite a few people who are the 2nd or 3rd owners of these seized vehicles who could reasonably believe that the automobile they purchased was here legitimately and never even thought about import laws, let alone made it a 'secondary concern'...
Who's to say a 1999 G500 won't end up on the next list? Many of those Land Rover owners thought they had plenty of provenience and now have an empty stall (and yes, there were at least 2 vehicles seized that were privately imported by their owners and had no relation to the suspect dealer or their overseas counterpart). |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
| Re: Read this now please
I agree, the subject is complex and varies between vehicles and owners. The rule of law is fickle and unequally applied. There will be some legal avenues for those with proper import papers, but even that is expensive and frustrating. |
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Brent
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
| RE: Read this now please
MazWest - 7/16/2014 11:56 PM
Brent - 7/16/2014 2:11 PM
Today it is vehicles, tomorrow it will probably be your firearms. This is a practice run, I suspect it is just the beginning. We as a society have made sooooo many stupid rules over the last few decades that just about every one of us is a criminal subject to search and siezure for one harmless crime or another. Exactly how most overbearing governments act just prior to coming apart at the seams. Siezed trucks are just the beginning folks.
It’s not too late but will soon be. Time to implement your contingency plan.
Well under way. I even added a nice black rifle to the collection last weekend. Glad you think it is funny though, ever thought of studying history? |
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Chris
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
Vehicle(s): 2012 G550, 2012 GL350 BT
Posts: 241
| Re: Read this now please
So I thought about this situation and how it would relate to the G world and I could not help but ever wonder what happened to that mint green Gd350 which was owned by a fellow on the east coast? I remember in the threads years ago that he had so many issues with it and I seem to recall that many questioned its legality as to if it was imported correctly. I would be concerned if I was in possession of that truck and not so much a Europa vehicle
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KJ6IRM
Member
Date registered: Oct 2012
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Vehicle(s): 2011 G550, 1989 E30 M3
Posts: 8
| Re: Read this now please
This is an interesting excerpt for a post on expo after a member was questioned about his 110 by DHS.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/129107-40-Imported-De...(developing-story)?p=1625154#post1625154
"After they left, empty handed, I spoke with my Wife's Aunt who is an attorney. She looked into the situation and she found that DHS was also seizing imported G Wagens. One of the lawyers, who owns a G, where she works was affected..."
EDIT: for some reason link isn't going to the right post number. The post is #30
Edited by KJ6IRM 7/17/2014 1:58 PM
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Brent
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
| RE: Read this now please
I like Alan's comments about all of these trucks having made it through customs at some point. How does one get the truck here then get it licensed and insured if it is so illegal they will come confiscate it years later. I only ever bought trucks with correct paperwork. I have always advocated that people do the same or risk this situation.
I still can not figure out why such obscure hobby vehicle were targeted... Oh wait, I do understand why |
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