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Balto
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 368
| High Oct and Ethanol free gas?
When I lived in Springfield, MO I had a gas station pretty close to the house that had ethanol free 93 OCT gas. It was also about the same price as 91(premium) with ethanol that other stations carried.
Now that I have moved to Scottsdale, AZ I can only find 1 place and it's ethanol free at 95 OCT and about 70 cents more expensive than 91 with ethanol that the other stations carry.
I haven't tried it yet because I'm not sure if that high of OCT is bad? Is 95 ethanol vs 91 with ethanol worth the extra .70 cents a gallon?
Any recommendations
Edited by Balto 7/25/2014 4:19 PM
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Brent
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
| RE: High Oct and Ethanol free gas?
There is no advantage to running octane higher than what the vehicle was designed for. I suspect the G500's reccomended octane is 91. You can run less and it will dial back timing (and power) if it dectects detonation but, it will still run fine. More octane, especially at added expense is a waste. Contrary to urban legend, the higher octane is not a "better" fuel. Low octane fuels still contain all the same additives to keep the fuel system clean etc.
Ethanol is a different story.... foisted on us by bad politics, you can try to avoid it but that is difficult. Your G500 should have zero issue with the typical 10% ethanol blends. You will probably see a bit of a milage drop between straight gasoline and the ethanol laced version. That said, the vast majority of us have been running ethanol laced fuels for decades with no ill effects.
At the end of the day you would be hard pressed to tell the difference in any modern fuel you feed your G500. I think the best advice I ever read was to change brands every few months as the additive packages differ. That should help keep the long term build up of additives from occurring. |
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Balto
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 368
| Re: High Oct and Ethanol free gas?
Thanks for the advice. The idea of switching companies ever so often makes perfect sense. |
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4x4Cal
Veteran
Date registered: May 2007
Location: Calgary, Canada
Vehicle(s): a Desert Silver & a Brilliant Silver G500
Posts: 260
| RE: High Oct and Ethanol free gas?
The 10% ethanol blends for the gas is a myth. The highest octane I can get locally 94 OCT(Petrol Canada) and I do not feel the G perform any better compare to the 91. Given the fact that when I was testing it I also have dialed in with STAR DAS on the ECU fuel settings with “91 OCT or higher”(default is auto adj) and the “Enrich” timing. I put it back to auto adjust on fuel after a few month and keep on using the 91 OCT pump fuel . |
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Balto
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 368
| RE: High Oct and Ethanol free gas?
Did you happen to test anything lower than 91? Like say 87 or 89?
4x4Cal - 7/31/2014 1:53 PM
The 10% ethanol blends for the gas is a myth. The highest octane I can get locally 94 OCT(Petrol Canada) and I do not feel the G perform any better compare to the 91. Given the fact that when I was testing it I also have dialed in with STAR DAS on the ECU fuel settings with “91 OCT or higher”(default is auto adj) and the “Enrich” timing. I put it back to auto adjust on fuel after a few month and keep on using the 91 OCT pump fuel . |
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Brent
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
| RE: High Oct and Ethanol free gas?
4x4Cal - 7/31/2014 12:53 PM
The 10% ethanol blends for the gas is a myth. The highest octane I can get locally 94 OCT(Petrol Canada) and I do not feel the G perform any better compare to the 91. Given the fact that when I was testing it I also have dialed in with STAR DAS on the ECU fuel settings with “91 OCT or higher”(default is auto adj) and the “Enrich” timing. I put it back to auto adjust on fuel after a few month and keep on using the 91 OCT pump fuel .
How are ethanol blends a myth? In the US 10% enthanol blends are the law in most places. |
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Balto
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 368
| RE: High Oct and Ethanol free gas?
I'm guessing he means it's a myth that 10% ethanol blends are bad for the vehicle?
Brent - 8/1/2014 6:47 AM
4x4Cal - 7/31/2014 12:53 PM
The 10% ethanol blends for the gas is a myth. The highest octane I can get locally 94 OCT(Petrol Canada) and I do not feel the G perform any better compare to the 91. Given the fact that when I was testing it I also have dialed in with STAR DAS on the ECU fuel settings with “91 OCT or higher”(default is auto adj) and the “Enrich” timing. I put it back to auto adjust on fuel after a few month and keep on using the 91 OCT pump fuel .
How are ethanol blends a myth? In the US 10% enthanol blends are the law in most places. |
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gerryvz
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
| Re: High Oct and Ethanol free gas?
<p>It's an interesting discussion. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6271"><u>At this thread</u></a> on my forum, I recently posted three MB bulletins from 1989, 1992 and 1994 regarding proper fuels to be used in their passenger vehicles. The 1989 bulletin noted that using gas with up to 10% ethanol was OK for "occasional" use. The 1992 bulletin removed the "occasional" wording, as did the 1994 bulletin. Obviously MB had done some initial research that led to their "occasional" use guideline, but something caused them to change their tune. </p><p>We'll probably never know what that was. All I can say is that in the past 5 years, I've had to change the fuel pumps on two of my vehicles and I believe that the 10% ethanol fuel is directly responsible for the failure of these Bosch pumps. </p><p>Cheers, </p><p>Gerry</p>
Edited by gerryvz 8/1/2014 11:31 AM
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4x4Cal
Veteran
Date registered: May 2007
Location: Calgary, Canada
Vehicle(s): a Desert Silver & a Brilliant Silver G500
Posts: 260
| RE: High Oct and Ethanol free gas?
Hi balto,
Yes I had tried the lower octane settings on the computer with 87 OCT gas. The engine still runs but with the timing obviously restarted with the 87 gas I put in. Which it translated to require a higher rev engine rpm moving off from a stop and all the shift points. I don't see any CEL from my 10 days trial with 3 fill ups. Moved the settings back to auto afterward.
On STAR there are emission standard settings enable you to choose the continent of emission standard. Options to choose USA, EURO/EURO5 to 1.... a few of them and Asia/Japan. My M113 engine felt better on the EURO setting. I guess it may not legal for you to change with your local law.
Regards,
Balto - 8/1/2014 3:41 AM
Did you happen to test anything lower than 91? Like say 87 or 89?
4x4Cal - 7/31/2014 1:53 PM
The 10% ethanol blends for the gas is a myth. The highest octane I can get locally 94 OCT(Petrol Canada) and I do not feel the G perform any better compare to the 91. Given the fact that when I was testing it I also have dialed in with STAR DAS on the ECU fuel settings with “91 OCT or higher”(default is auto adj) and the “Enrich” timing. I put it back to auto adjust on fuel after a few month and keep on using the 91 OCT pump fuel . |
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4x4Cal
Veteran
Date registered: May 2007
Location: Calgary, Canada
Vehicle(s): a Desert Silver & a Brilliant Silver G500
Posts: 260
| RE: High Oct and Ethanol free gas?
Hi Brent,
I called this a myth because it was not 'by choice' of a consumer and it was some government + businesses made us believed this product would be better. It was also a known fact that the ethanol blends gas have removed lubrication chemical for fuel pump.
Brent - 8/1/2014 5:47 AM
4x4Cal - 7/31/2014 12:53 PM
The 10% ethanol blends for the gas is a myth. The highest octane I can get locally 94 OCT(Petrol Canada) and I do not feel the G perform any better compare to the 91. Given the fact that when I was testing it I also have dialed in with STAR DAS on the ECU fuel settings with “91 OCT or higher”(default is auto adj) and the “Enrich” timing. I put it back to auto adjust on fuel after a few month and keep on using the 91 OCT pump fuel .
How are ethanol blends a myth? In the US 10% enthanol blends are the law in most places. |
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Brent
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
| RE: High Oct and Ethanol free gas?
I do not think anyone believes enthanol in gasoline is a good idea, other than the corn farmers.
It definately is a drying agent but unlikely to have really affected fuel pumps. My last BMW, a 1992 535i, was on its original pump at 185k miles after over 20 years of service, and presumably tons of ethanol fuel.
It will reduce your fuel economy becuase it lacks the energy content of straight gasoline. Otherwise, I doubt it will cause your vehicle any real harm.
I have been running it in 2 stroke snowmobiles for years. These are lubricated by the gas and oil mixture. Non ethanol fuel is reccomended but difficult to source so they run on a 10% blend. I haven't seen any problems in dozens of sleds with tens of thousands of miles.
I think people often overthink gasoline, most of the time you are going to be hard pressed to discern a difference in performance unless tuning for the upper limits. Even then, the two stroke sled engines run over 8000 rpm and make 200 hp/liter. If ethanol was a big issue, there would LOTS of unhappy consumers. |
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