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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: now what?
I have a new battery that I can use
brushes I will find
any tricks for the VR? |
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J.R.
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
| RE: now what?
Harald,
Here are a few historical links that may help your cause. YouTube has a couple of decent tutorials for brush replacement. For a decent video to R&R the VR try https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZkTs4LR1yc . I do not want to mislead you with my experiences (older Bosch VRs) in the area of brush R&R. I do not know if the manufacturing on the VR, where the desolder and resolder has to take place, is accessible. I have not seen any pictures. It is all a big assumption. Maybe someone else can comment and share a picture or two if they have a spare laying about. Here is a youtube that may help for the R&R of the brushes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVvPzwtxdrM if it accessible on the Bosch unit.
When you get the VR out and one of the brushes is shorter than the either, you will notice that the brush has range remaining. When the brush lead is soldered in, the lead then becomes the range limiting factor, not the spring. Getting the offending brush further extended is a significant challenge so replacement is best.
If you do a field repair, find brushes with the longer leads so that you can get a grip on them for the soldering. My guess is there is a fair amount of local ingenuity in you area that has something you can use.
http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=17693&po...
http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=17696&po...
http://pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=13273&start=...
http://pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=18268&start=...
Edited by J.R. 10/14/2014 7:40 AM
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: now what?
so, new battery - same problem
charging well initially
after about 10 minutes voltage drops rapidly (12.54 @ 15 minutes)
restart and charge starts again with >14V
this indicates brushes or VR? |
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J.R.
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
| RE: now what?
Brushes would be my first thing to check. It should be obvious visually. |
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gelenda
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Great Bay, New Hampshire
Vehicle(s): '03 G500, '16 E63S AMG, '15 Grand Cherokee Diesel
Posts: 122
| Re: now what?
olasdeplata - 10/14/2014 12:20 AM
Harald
I had a one year old Odissey large battery, that of course I did NOT expect it to fail. Well, the battery will start losing juice and it will go from 13.6 with engine running to 12, and then 11.6... I change the brushes assuming that the voltage regulator was the problem, with intermittent charging, but the issue persisted. Charged battery externally, and it will show 12 volts, but will drop by the next day. Burned the new brushes, change them again and decided to have the battery tested. It was bad. Got a new one under warranty.
A bad voltage regulator can ruin a battery and a bad battery can ruin a voltage regulator.
The easiest way to test this to swap batteries with another car and see if the problem reoccurs. If it does, then it is the alternator, and in 90% of the cases, the voltage regulator inside it.
Odyssey batteries are overrated and overpriced with a questionable warranty. An equivalent AGM battery from Autozone seems to work better for me. |
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olasdeplata
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2006
Location: At the Beach in Hatteras
Vehicle(s): 280GE convertible 84, 300E 89
Posts: 396
| Re: now what?
To my knowledge, Bosch voltage regulators come with new brushes... Use a piece of tape to keep them pressed while you slide the regulator inside the alternator. Can be done without removing the alternator in a 460, not sure if that is the same case on the G500. |
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J.R.
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
| Re: now what?
Based on what I've seen online as far as images and video it appears that the alternator needs to come out. You can scotch Brite the commutators too. Don't forget to disconnect the ground from the battery to prevent any unauthorized arc welding. |
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olasdeplata
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2006
Location: At the Beach in Hatteras
Vehicle(s): 280GE convertible 84, 300E 89
Posts: 396
| Re: now what?
J.R. - 10/14/2014 12:24 PM
Based on what I've seen online as far as images and video it appears that the alternator needs to come out. You can scotch Brite the commutators too. Don't forget to disconnect the ground from the battery to prevent any unauthorized arc welding.
Yes... I have done that mistake and welded my screwdriver...  |
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J.R.
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
| Re: now what?
olasdeplata - 10/14/2014 2:06 PM
Yes... I have done that mistake and welded my screwdriver... :lmao:
Mine was my watch band. An acquaintance lost his finger due to ring. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: now what?
what's a commutator? |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: now what?
The commutator is the two copper rings on the armature, the rotating part of the alternator. Should it need cleaning up, it should be cleaned gently. To clean them, hold a bit of scotch brite against the rings and spin the alternator. It can't have any cross-wise grooves as these would quickly grind away at the very soft carbon brushes.
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J.R.
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
| Re: now what?
Alan is spot on. Here are a few images to help. I couldn't for the life of me remember their other name earlier, they are also know as slip rings.
Edited by J.R. 10/14/2014 9:03 PM
 (Hebert Alternator slip rings 11-28-11.jpg)
 (Bosch+Alternator1341175765.jpg)
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 Hebert Alternator slip rings 11-28-11.jpg (317KB - 0 downloads)
Bosch+Alternator1341175765.jpg (95KB - 0 downloads)
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J.R.
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
| RE: now what?
Harald,
I think I've found a decent image of the type of VR you have and it shows the solder points. Hope this helps.
 (Bosch_ER_IF_Alternators_Brush_Holder.jpg)
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Bosch_ER_IF_Alternators_Brush_Holder.jpg (56KB - 0 downloads)
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: now what?
yup - found it
http://www.amazon.com/Mercedes-98-08-Voltage-Regulator-Alternator/d...
now I hope the La Paz Autozone carries them |
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J.R.
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
| RE: now what?
Harald,
A quick search of auto zone stateside found 89 results under alternator brush, just in case. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: now what?
took me 1/2 day to get the bastard alternator out
replaced it before and it was easy - but i don't remember how
anyway, brushes look good (replace regulator anyway?)
 (DSC_6078-e.jpg)
 (DSC_6079-e.jpg)
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DSC_6078-e.jpg (167KB - 0 downloads)
DSC_6079-e.jpg (180KB - 0 downloads)
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: now what?
Yes, the brushes look good. However that half-circle electrical tab is nasty. If you don't choose to replace, then definitely clean it (and the bolt that connects to it) up and coat with silicone paste. Corrosion there or nearby could be your problem.
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J.R.
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
| RE: now what?
The brushes look good and even.
Two options that both include a trip to your Autozone if they have an alternator bench tester to spin up your solution. Let them know that you want a longer spin due to the symptoms you were seeing. If there is no bench tester at Autozone, maybe some has a auto back shop with something similar:
1. Clean up the corrosion and gently scotch brite the slip rings, install the original VR and off to auto zone. If no bench tester is available then I'd go with option 2
2. Given the size of the job, I'd clean the slip rings with a light application of a scotch brite, clean the contact surfaces as Alan advised and install the new VR and off to autozone. If no bench tester, it will be an on car test.
Edited by J.R. 10/15/2014 5:24 PM
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: now what?
no bench test available in La Paz
Autozone did not have the VR either
neither the complete alternator
but they sent me on to another store
what a find!
original Bosch- anything you want
"Of course we have your regulator!" the guy behind the counter said
"Bosch or aftermarket?"
at $31 for the Bosch, I went for the original
 (regulator.jpg)
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regulator.jpg (193KB - 0 downloads)
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J.R.
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
| RE: now what?
Harald,
Your original VR was for 150 amps http://www.vehiclepartsdatabase.com/vehicles/allprivateroadvehicles...
The one you bought appears to be for 120 amps. http://www.vehiclepartsdatabase.com/vehicles/allprivateroadvehicles...
Based on a link earlier in this thread http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=17693&po... , the Bosch part number you are looking for is F 00M 145 382 http://www.vehiclepartsdatabase.com/vehicles/allprivateroadvehicles...
I don't think you'll be running big amp consumers like the rear window defroster anytime soon so if that is the best they can do then it gets you back on the road sooner rather than later.
Edited by J.R. 10/15/2014 7:37 PM
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