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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
I have done the re-greasing (too late, including cutting off bolts)
did work for 2 weeks
I have done the rebuild kit
did work for 2 years
http://carlosnpainter.smugmug.com/Cars/G500-center-drive-shaft/
then I stuck a new shaft in
3 years and counting
http://carlosnpainter.smugmug.com/Cars/New-center-drive-shaft-G500/
for peace of mind - get a new shaft and many years of good service
re-grease before (BEFORE) the CV goes bad - around 70,000 miles
then it has the potential to live "forever"
by the way, the new shafts come with a new style bolt that will no longer strip
Edited by 4x4abc 12/2/2014 1:00 PM
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
What damaged the bolts and micro-encapsulation nuts????? |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
H1LM002G55 - 12/2/2014 2:16 PM What damaged the bolts and micro-encapsulation nuts????? Corrosion. My G lived in Germany for 6 years. The bolt shafts and the CV body have "become one". You can't exert enough twist on the hex socket. They just round out. This would be a 30 minute job if MB had used torx head bolts.
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Wow...I had no idea. That is crazy.
I imagine you tried Kroil and those sorts of potions and lotions? (3M Stainless Steel cleaner spray is amazing for some reason in freeing rusted parts from what I have seen)... |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
After several rounds of penetrating oil over most of a week, Vadim and I took another crack at getting the shaft out. After some grunting, cursing and the application of quality tools, there is now a rebuild shaft under the G. The xfer case handle doesn't wobble on acceleration now! No particular precautions were taken on positioning the clips, just 180 degrees between the large and small clips on each end. Ran it up to 85mph on the freeway and it is smooth as silk.  (Very big thank you to Vadim!) The needle re-greasing seemed to be pretty successful at getting grease throughout the CV joint. I think it might have started too late though. I'm of the opinion that rebuilding these joints every 70-100 thousand miles would extend the life indefinitely. All one needs for a rebuild is a new rubber boot (actually plastic), sealant (hylomar, Loctite 518, etc), 12 new nuts, and the GKN grease. We coated the entire length of the bolts with sealant in attempt to prevent the rust-together problem. Bolts go in with 50-60nm.
Frankly, the six bolt mounting of the shaft ends is a bit of overkill. I've been running with 3 bolts on one end for about 100K miles. So, there may be no actual need for replacing the nuts. Then again, they are cheap.
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
AlanMcR and G-AMG:
I read G-AMG's post about re-greasing the center driveshaft before performing this procedure on the 500GE.
I read the G-AMG post thoroughly, TWICE.
It *never* occurred to me that there would be the potential for having a problem extracting the bolts due to corrosion/rust. I am lucky and do not have that problem to deal with and had no issues extracting the hex head bolts.
As per G-AMG's post, I DID purchase new micro-encapsulating nuts (mandatory) along with new Torx mounting bolts for the center prop shaft.
That being said, I would like to update G-AMG's tech thread to include the following:
A) A warning note that it is possible to re-use the Hex Head Bolts, BUT, it is highly recommended that you buy the new TORX bolts to reduce the risk of rounding off one of the fasteners in the future.
B) A recommendation that every 70K Miles / 5 years, the Center Driveshaft be re-greased.
Update with part number and picture of the kit. I did purchase this kit from MB/GKN with GKN grease in tubes and the new plastic boots.
C) A part number of the MB kit for those that need to rebuild the two CV joints / homokinetic joints...with the recommendation that they just buy a new prop shaft instead as it probably costs less money to buy a new center drive shaft compared to the price for parts and labor to rebuild the short, center drive shaft.
Thoughts on updating the G-AMG Tech Post with the above?
Edited by H1LM002G55 12/6/2014 11:31 PM
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MiN
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Alpujarras, Spain
Vehicle(s): No cars, at all.
Posts: 555
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
A) I had the short shaft out of my 99 G500 several times and never had a problem with the hex bolts. Preparation was the key; a liberal spraying of your choice of lubricant. I would say only that the TORX bolts are available.
B) Agreed with regard to the re-greasing but with the caveat that if the boots are in good condition then there's no reason to replace them.
C) This bears no economic sense. Two CV joints cost a third of a new prop shaft. It's a relatively easy DIY job but you just need to take care in the reassembly.
Edited by MiN 12/7/2014 7:29 AM
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
AlanMcR - 12/6/2014 10:44 PM
The needle re-greasing seemed to be pretty successful at getting grease throughout the CV joint. Any recommendations on how much grease to pump in there?
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
MiN - 12/7/2014 7:24 AM
Two CV joints cost a third of a new prop shaft. It's a relatively easy DIY job but you just need to take care in the reassembly.
The aftermarket GKN shaft is not really much more than the cost of the two CV rebuild kits, especially when considering the labor involved in a rebuild. Also, you have a better shot at it being properly balanced, too. |
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
MiN - 12/7/2014 7:24 AM
A) I had the short shaft out of my 99 G500 several times and never had a problem with the hex bolts. Preparation was the key; a liberal spraying of your choice of lubricant. I would say only that the TORX bolts are available.
B) Agreed with regard to the re-greasing but with the caveat that if the boots are in good condition then there's no reason to replace them.
C) This bears no economic sense. Two CV joints cost a third of a new prop shaft. It's a relatively easy DIY job but you just need to take care in the reassembly.
A1) I believe it is easier to strip a Hex Head than a Torx Head. If so, the Torx Head is recommended and cheap insurance.
My head head bolts were reusable, I saved them, but switched to TORX when I did the job.
B2) Agree here, too. Provided that you removed the boots without damaging the thin metal casting that holds the boot to the cup/metal frame/mounting plate.
C3) I disagree. Please check the price of the two CV joints again. The re-build kits are costly and the price of a new shaft isn't much more as Dutch pointed out.
I spoke to Graz and mentioned this in detail in an earlier post, but there is no balancing necessary on the center driveshaft according to them. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
H1LM002G55 - 12/7/2014 3:31 PM
I spoke to Graz and mentioned this in detail in an earlier post, but there is no balancing necessary on the center driveshaft according to them.
That's interesting, in that the WIS is quite specific about how to align that centre shaft when mounting it. Maybe that's been updated. |
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MiN
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Alpujarras, Spain
Vehicle(s): No cars, at all.
Posts: 555
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Re the CV repair kit prices; of course I checked the retail prices before posting. However, if there is a cheaper source for the entire prop shaft, as Dutch writes, then the source for that ought to be better known, especially for those outside Eu or NA. Might there then also be a cheaper source for the CV kits?
Regarding the hex v torx bolts, I think we need more opinions on that before changing G-AMG's post.
The non-balancing requirement confirmation is good news! |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
MiN - 12/8/2014 2:09 AM
Re the CV repair kit prices; of course I checked the retail prices before posting. However, if there is a cheaper source for the entire prop shaft, as Dutch writes, then the source for that ought to be better known, especially for those outside Eu or NA. Might there then also be a cheaper source for the CV kits?
Eurotruck Importers. http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info... |
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
MiN - 12/8/2014 2:09 AM
Regarding the hex v torx bolts, I think we need more opinions on that before changing G-AMG's post.
You and I were lucky as we did not have bolt corrosion issues to deal with when removing our HEX bolts.
That being said, it is well known that a Torx Head will accept greater torque than a Hex Head of the equivalent size, provided the proper size bit is used!
AlanMcR commented that he felt he would have had an easier time if he were able to apply more force to remove the seized bolts...Hence my suggestion for recommending the TORX fasteners. Graz had to make the change for some reason.
Edited by H1LM002G55 12/8/2014 8:48 AM
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MiN
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Alpujarras, Spain
Vehicle(s): No cars, at all.
Posts: 555
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Dutch, thanks for the link. I had a look at Sean's site. The GKN shafts vary from $875 - $975, depending on year. The GKN repair kit would be $430 for both. That's a huge saving. Bearing in mind that there's no balancing requirement, I don't think we can advocate buying a new shaft instead of repairing your old one. |
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superG
Member
Date registered: Apr 2011
Location: Htown, TX
Vehicle(s): LX 570, SQ5
Posts: 37
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
G drives like a new car now after the shaft replacement. I should be good until 200k (almost 125k now) |
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Gilamonster
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2013
Location: New Mexico
Vehicle(s): G #1 (mix of a 460, 461 & 463), #2 is a 2000 G500
Posts: 151
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
superG - 12/8/2014 2:24 PM
G drives like a new car now after the shaft replacement. I should be good until 200k (almost 125k now)
Good news. Mine was replaced last week too.
One thing I've noticed is that the vibration of the transfer case high/low shifter (2000 G500) has been notably minimized.
My mechanic (Marc Beyer) suggested that the engine, transmission and TC mounts should now be replaced. He noticed excessive movement in them all. Perhaps it should be considered that the worn mounts are root of the problem which leads to the compromise to the shaft boots due to the excessive movement (beyond design spec of the shaft) of the components it is connected to... And the new shaft's rigidity is compensating for the worn out mounts hence the post replacement reduced shifter vibration.
If this is indeed the case then without addressing the mounts then the life of HK shaft #2 will be notably shorter than that of shaft #1.
In this scenario the TC shifter excessive movement is an indicator of a mounts issue. For the sake of discussion it would be interesting to know what a similar early indicator would be for vehicle with an electric TC case switch as opposed to the manual shifter. Possibly another advantage of the pre-MBUSA system?
Thoughts?
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
The engine, transmission and TC mounts are designed such that even if the rubber fell out they would still limit the total movement to within a fairly small domain. The allowable shaft angle is 10 18 degrees (on each end, I think). I don't think that the mounts are capable of moving enough to get the shaft outside of its design limits, or even near to the limit for that matter..
Edited by AlanMcR 12/8/2014 11:48 PM
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WEBIII
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Oct 2010
Location: Inlet Beach, FL
Vehicle(s): 461.318, 463.241
Posts: 315
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Gilamonster - 12/8/2014 9:37 PM
Good news. Mine was replaced last week too.
One thing I've noticed is that the vibration of the transfer case high/low shifter (2000 G500) has been notably minimized.
My mechanic (Marc Beyer) suggested that the engine, transmission and TC mounts should now be replaced. He noticed excessive movement in them all. Perhaps it should be considered that the worn mounts are root of the problem which leads to the compromise to the shaft boots due to the excessive movement (beyond design spec of the shaft) of the components it is connected to... And the new shaft's rigidity is compensating for the worn out mounts hence the post replacement reduced shifter vibration.
If this is indeed the case then without addressing the mounts then the life of HK shaft #2 will be notably shorter than that of shaft #1.
In this scenario the TC shifter excessive movement is an indicator of a mounts issue. For the sake of discussion it would be interesting to know what a similar early indicator would be for vehicle with an electric TC case switch as opposed to the manual shifter. Possibly another advantage of the pre-MBUSA system?
Thoughts?
Just curious how many miles are on your 2000? |
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Gilamonster
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2013
Location: New Mexico
Vehicle(s): G #1 (mix of a 460, 461 & 463), #2 is a 2000 G500
Posts: 151
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
AlanMcR - 12/8/2014 9:41 PM
The engine, transmission and TC mounts are designed such that even if the rubber fell out they would still limit the total movement to within a fairly small domain. The allowable shaft angle is 10 18 degrees (on each end, I think). I don't think that the mounts are capable of moving enough to get the shaft outside of its design limits, or even near to the limit for that matter..
Thanks Alan. Good info. At this point I'm still inclined to replace the mounts as per the mechanic's suggestion. Minimizing play of the drivetrain components can only be of benefit to the system as a whole.
I knew that I would need to make a significant investment in this old G when I bought it and I'd like to keep it running great for another 10 years at least. It will be my wife's car so I need it to be safe and sound.
When I bought it this summer it ran smooth and strong even though it needed $15k of work. I see that as a testament to this 2000 G500. Now that the work is almost complete it is even better! Smooth, quiet and powerful. I'm impressed.
William |
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