|
H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
I have a small lower radiator hose leak on the 500GE.
The part number is: HWA 463 501 02 82
Mercedes Dealer Network: No Longer Available
Mercedes Classic Center: No Longer Available
It is a T-Shaped hose and rather awkward looking.
I am going to call Graz in the morning. If I have no luck, I will call AMG.
If anyone has an idea on a potential solution, please let me know.
I am willing to buy several of these as I have plenty of friends with 500GEs.
|
|
| |
|
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
A Google on the P/N brought up several sources in the US and worldwide. Maybe someone has it on the shelf.
FWIW, there is at least one cooling system hose on my 2000 G500 that is also not available and no longer being made. After getting the same story as you from two different MB dealers, Sean at EuroTruck was able to find me two of them on somebody's shelf in Europe. See if he can help you. He has some pretty good sources. |
|
| |
|
H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
Email sent. Thank you! |
|
| |
|
AGuess
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Holly Springs NC
Vehicle(s): 93 500GE, 93 500GE, 2002 G500
Posts: 717
| Re: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
H1LM002G55,
I found one lower 500GE radiator hose on ebay.de about a year ago. Have not found any others and have not been able to get from any source I have.
With that said, I would expect that this new lower hose could be used as a model to custom make several lower hoses.
I found a company in Atlanta GA that makes custom fittings.
http://www.gruvenparts.com
http://www.gruvenparts.com/y-pipe-for-vr6-rad-hose/
Let me know if you talk to them and if you want to use my hose a model.
AGuess |
|
| |
|
H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
If you have a take off old hose that I can use as a model, I would greatly appreciate that. Or if you have a photo and dimensions that may work also. |
|
| |
|
H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
13 November 2014 update
Where is Waldo? The Phantom Lower Radiator Hose
Took 500GE last week to Central Florida for Trap and Skeet shoot.
On any trip, I do route planning in advance. I consider the vehicle I am going to drive, my start point, my end point, and anticipated route, and places along the way that may be able to render service to me should I need it. MB Roadside Assistance is pretty good, but part of the plan is to always get your vehicle "to the closest dealer". And I really do not like to waste time or deal with the inconvenience for a "simple fix".
I prefer the simplicity of the early model Gs and MB Cars for this reason. And, a MB dealer is not always around every corner when you are driving.
Road trip- Smooth as silk. No issues. Did motor oil change, front and rear differential fluid change, and transfer case fluid change just prior to trip and checked all other fluids and critical areas. All was good from the PMC/ Preventative Maintenance Check. I am obsessive about monitoring oil pressure and water temperature when driving and do so with a good pilot's frequency...I check every minute. No issues. Had good pressures and temps the entire trip.
Returned from road trip and parked vehicle under car port. 2 days later after not driving it, noticed a small puddle of liquid in front of passenger side wheel on the pavers. Opened hood, noticed coolant overflow tank about an inch lower than when I had last seen it. Added distilled water to the overflow tank. Started motor. Observed drip coming from lower radiator hose by observing leak through front passenger side wheel well.
Called mechanic. Repeated procedure. He confirmed and concurred with diagnosis.
Solution: Order new hose. Part number: HWA4635010282
(Realization: Man, I got lucky on the road trip...)
-Called local MB Dealer
MB Dealer: "No Longer Available" we checked USA, Germany/Europe. "No Stock".
-Called MB Classic Center in Irvine, California: "No Stock", "No Longer Available"
-Called MB Classic Center in Fellbach, Germany: No Stock, No Longer Available"
-Called MagnaSteyr / Graz, production company for the G-Klasse: "We do not have a lower radiator hose in our warehouse, in Austria, or in Germany"
-Called EuroTruck Importers (Great company, they normally come up with odd ball parts all the time and they support the forum): No luck, not in stock.
* Starting to get semi-concerned
-Called Kienle. One of the best classic MB restoration companies in the world and probably the best for the SL Gullwing and Roadsters: We do not have the hose on stock and we do not know where to find it.
-Called the "classic" manager at Brabus (Brabus did some G-Klasse models with M117 engine)
No response
-Called Vaeth (Vaeth is a well respected engine tuning company in Germany that is now focusing on tuning for some of the "youngtimer" classic Mercedes cars (No hose on stock and we called AMG and they do not have the hose either)
Pulled out the "black book" of good MB contacts gathered over the past 15 years or so...(I am a little lucky, one company I am involved with is a supplier to Damiler and MB, so I have a few friends from this)
-Called the "A" in AMG directly at Affalterbach (He is now retired). Please call the "Technische Department" (German word for technical and engineering) and explain to them the problem and they can offer a solution...
-Called the AMG Technische department at Affalterbach. Provided hose part number and the chassis code to my 500 GE.
AMG Reply by phone: "We also confirm "no hose in stock" and "no longer made". The problem with "pre-merger" AMG cars is at the time, we would make models for custom parts like hoses with wood and metal and these "mock-ups" would then be sent for production. We did not do very much design work with CAD at this time and there are no drafts or diagrams for some of the special parts like hoses from HWA unfortunately. We called the head of our G-Tuning department who was with us almost since the beginning. He is now 5 years retired. He is going to look for a solution. In the short time, we recommend you call Mr. Hartmut Fehyl at Renntech Mercedes since you are in Florida. If it is not possible for him to help you, please call us back, and we will piece together a hose for you...we know this is not the best solution, but we can probably invent something from metal and a few rubber hoses"...
*Big thumbs-up to AMG for creativity and willingness to help for an "out of print" model.
Called Tokyo: Pre-Merger AMG had a sales office in Tokyo and one Japanese man bought up most of the inventory when the franchise and the satellite operations were acquired by Daimler.
"I will look and get back to you".
(There exists a small handful of 500GEs in Japan and the Japanese are quite fond of them. At least two that I know of were exported out of Japan. One went back to Germany and the other went to Canada).
Called ORC in Germany: "Sorry, hose not available". We checked all Mercedes dealers and there is no hose.
Called Lennartz in Germany: Sorry, I do not have the hose, but I am willing to make you one from metal.
(Lennartz is a highly respected G restoration company and G offroad racing company). They just sold an amazing desert tan 500GE that was completely restored and setup for offroad desert use. It was desert tan/sand painted...one of the few from factory like this.
www.lennartz-technik.de
Called GFG (another G tuner for offroad in Germany that has had a 500GE in the past): No response as of yet.
Called Guido (Of U.S. west coast G parts supply fame): Sorry, hose not available. I checked.
Called "Denny" who made me my high temperature silicone cooling system and heater hoses for the H1s. Engineer for most of the up-armored and performance enhancements for U.S. SOF HMMWVs, etc...
"Weld yourself something out of 304 stainless or aluminum. If you want to make small volume silicone hoses, the mold will cost you a few thousand USD and there is not enough volume to justify it with such a lower production number of vehicles"...
Called "The German Group" of 5 or so tools and spare parts sellers that I have bought Mercedes things from in the past. Struck gold. One seller has a hose. Ordered.
Called Latvia, a major source of MB parts to Russia (Some 500GEs ended up in Russia and Eastern Europe towards the end of the 1990s when fuel prices started rising in Germany and the Russian economy picked up. These early models were favored for the V8 engine and a fuel system that can "burn anything that can be called fuel"...important, that, in Russia. "We had a hose and we sold it. Sorry".
Called a MB dealer in Netherlands: "You are right, this hose is not available. But you know what, here is a part number which you should try, as it may work". Ordered. Part arrives next week. I will post results. Big thumbs-up to Netherlands if this works.
The U.S. Solution- Member and friend AGuess managed to get a new hose a while back and has not fitted it yet. One of the SL and Gullwing restoration companies in the U.S. has offered to re-create the original hose from aluminum or stainless steel if the hoses I come up with do not work.
As the head of the Gullwing and 300SL Roadster club so fondly says: "I call it luxury ADVENTURE travel"...As it is always an adventure if you have an out of print model...and you end up needing a part. But that is part of the fun and you get to meet interesting friends along the way...
Total time investment so far in tracking down the above part ~ 3 hours.
Still beats sitting at a dealer while the dealer scratches their head and wastes time on not being able to find anything.
I am still ahead at this point.
To be continued...
Edited by H1LM002G55 11/13/2014 2:33 PM
|
|
| |
|
leomd
Member
Date registered: Nov 2013
Location: Miami, Florida
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500-Bessie
Posts: 33
| RE: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
Awesome.... Your hunt for the correct part is very impressive.
If the Dutch inspired part doesnt work I think using an existing T or Y connector and making one from existing hoses will be the ticket. I think a custom connector or hose will not be cost effective. Many times I was able to find parts from other manufactures to fix my older Range Rover at a significant reduced cost. I remember finding a Purge value and hose from a Hyundai for around $19 as opposed to a $500 Land Rover part that worked and looked better than OEM.
Good luck!
|
|
| |
|
H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| RE: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
I think that is a good call and very solid advice.
Here is a photo of the hose. It does not appear too complex though the hose bends are rather unique.
Edited by H1LM002G55 11/13/2014 3:03 PM
 (HWA4635010282.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 HWA4635010282.jpg (236KB - 0 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
could the leak be repaired? |
|
| |
|
H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
- Update
Japan: My friend who bought up the pre-merger AMG inventory called me back. Yes, he has a hose. It is on its way. A closed society, dealing with the Japanese. I guess it is also lucky and convenient to be the sole U.S. member of the Japanese H1 owner's club. 
Harald/4x4ABC-
You are the real expert. I am not sure about repairing hoses and I have never done it before other than making a repair to drive a few miles. I am always interested in learning and you have professional and creative solutions.
The material of the hose is EPDM Rubber. Let me know your thoughts.
If anyone has owned Italian cars in the past, they know what chaos it is when it comes to the parts. It is all part of the fun. Mercedes I must say has the most reliable supply of spare parts and the best distribution network in the world from what I have seen. Sadly, it is no longer the 1980s. And I think this is beginning to change. But they are still the best. Toyota may eventually surpass them in the near future. This is my only fear.
Edited by H1LM002G55 11/13/2014 11:23 PM
|
|
| |
|
H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
EDIT So you all understand, the objective here is to not for me to merely "get another hose". I need to find a solution for other 500GE owners so that these other owners do not end up in my situation. I guess it was lucky for it to happen to me as I have good resources and contacts to deal with a problem of this sort. But for the others, it is important to help them. These are good Gs and they deserve to be on the road. They will not be building them like this again, sadly.
Edited by H1LM002G55 11/13/2014 11:36 PM
|
|
| |
|
H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
Silicone vs EPDM Rubber Hose Comparison (Note: Gates sells both silicone and EPDM rubber hose. I think they are showing you that you need to pick the hose for the application. Silicone wins for high temperature conditions such as racing and desert driving).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSl0URba_ho |
|
| |
|
WEBIII
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Oct 2010
Location: Inlet Beach, FL
Vehicle(s): 461.318, 463.241
Posts: 315
| Re: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
Where does the small T connect? HVAC plumbing?
I've been enjoying this thread. Best of luck with the search. |
|
| |
|
H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
Yes, to HVAC plumbing.
I have 2 potential replacement hoses coming from Germany based on part number from Netherlands.
1 good hose from Germany that has shipped.
1 good hose from Japan that has shipped.
I talked to Gates today (the hose manufacturer). I am not sure who MB is using today for EPDM hoses and will need to check next week. Gates thinks that branch hoses made from normal radiator hose connections could work. My only problem with this solution is that you are doubling the number of "failure nodes" in the "circuit" by making it this way and I am not sure of a solution around it, or if the failure nodes are acceptable.
If I am not thinking or seeing something right, please point it out.
Edited by H1LM002G55 11/14/2014 3:50 PM
|
|
| |
|
MiN
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Alpujarras, Spain
Vehicle(s): No cars, at all.
Posts: 555
| Re: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
Is there any danger that EPDM deteriorates over time? Is there any likelihood that the rubber in these hoses from Ge and Jp will have deteriorated. I have no idea but have recently had an experience where some plastics/rubber objects that had been in storage for years proved to be useless because the materiel had become brittle over time. I don't know how old these hose are; is there any way of finding out when they were made and how they have been stored in the interim? |
|
| |
|
4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
amazing job, Cole! Never give up.
|
|
| |
|
4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
Min, if rubbers and plastics are treated and stored right they will last long |
|
| |
|
H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
MiN - 11/15/2014 12:07 PM
Is there any danger that EPDM deteriorates over time? Is there any likelihood that the rubber in these hoses from Ge and Jp will have deteriorated. I have no idea but have recently had an experience where some plastics/rubber objects that had been in storage for years proved to be useless because the materiel had become brittle over time. I don't know how old these hose are; is there any way of finding out when they were made and how they have been stored in the interim?
This is a really good call and important to note the answers here.
As per MB, the hoses have a "shelf life" of 7 years.
In use, they are designed to last about 10 years.
The hoses are not date stamped, so I am not sure of the age of what I am going to receive.
You make extremely valid points. And the shelf life of 7 years is important to consider. |
|
| |
|
H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
4x4abc - 11/15/2014 12:57 PM
amazing job, Cole! Never give up.
Thanks, Harald. I hope we can find a good solution for the other owners also.  |
|
| |
|
H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Need Lower Radiator Hose for 500GE
4x4abc - 11/15/2014 12:59 PM
Min, if rubbers and plastics are treated and stored right they will last long
Please let me know how best to do this. I imagine storing them at room temperature in a box away from humidity and UV light would be a good start. What else? |
|
| |
