|
Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| Another tire question
I just picked up some of the 2007 style wheels with 265/70R18 Nokian tires on them and it turns out I really like the ride of the larger tires. I like the taller look as well, but that is not as big a factor for me. I do a lot of highway driving and they yield a more relaxed cruise due to the larger diameter. But, I know there are issues with larger than stock tires, not the least of which is the 7% speedo error. From what I have been able to pick up on various threads this may be correctable via STAR. I also found out that tire diameter changes approaching 10% or so can raise hell with various vehicle electronic systems, so the larger size may be playing with fire. Then there is the issue of the spare and the cover. . .
The Nokians are fairly well worn so I have been looking at replacements. I have been considering 265/70R18 like the Nokians, something in between at 265/65R18, or, the stock size of 265/60R18. Most of the people on this board have had a lot more experience than I, so I would appreciate any thoughts on these choices.
BTW, the larger tires also push the onset of the "thrumming" (the source of which I still can't find) into a speed zone I don't travel in and this is an added, albeit I hope not necessary in the long term, bonus.
Thanks! |
|
| |
|
Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| RE: Another tire question
I had my truck a the dealer today for them to turn of that miserable speed controlled volume function on the stereo, so while they had it hooked up to the STAR system, I asked them to tell me what "tires sizes" are available to be set in the firmware. There are six size options in my truck, which are:
Size .................. Diameter
255/55R18 ..... 29.0" (737mm)
255/65R16 ..... 29.1" (738mm)
285/55R18 ..... 30.4" (771mm)
265/60R18 ..... 30.5" (775mm)
235/85R16 ..... 31.7" (806mm)
265/70R18 ..... 32.6" (829mm)
That's quite a range (which includes both sets of tires I already have) and it will certainly give me a lot of tire options. I have been considering a 265/65R18 (31.5", 801mm) which is a a bit bigger than stock, but not huge. The 235/85R16 (31.7" 806mm) "option" would work quite nicely for that size.
- FD
|
|
| |
|
512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: Another tire question
Floobydust - 11/21/2014 3:29 PM
I had my truck a the dealer today for them to turn of that miserable speed controlled volume function on the stereo, so while they had it hooked up to the STAR system, I asked them to tell me what "tires sizes" are available to be set in the firmware. There are six size options in my truck, which are:
Size .................. Diameter
255/55R18 ..... 29.0" (737mm)
255/65R16 ..... 29.1" (738mm)
285/55R18 ..... 30.4" (771mm)
265/60R18 ..... 30.5" (775mm)
235/85R16 ..... 31.7" (806mm)
265/70R18 ..... 32.6" (829mm)
That's quite a range (which includes both sets of tires I already have) and it will certainly give me a lot of tire options. I have been considering a 265/65R18 (31.5", 801mm) which is a a bit bigger than stock, but not huge. The 235/85R16 (31.7" 806mm) "option" would work quite nicely for that size.
- FD
I have run the larger diameter you posted here with no issues with ten ply tires(load rating E)
I never had issues with the electronics with that size but other members here did have issues with 33s that I recall.
Due to the fact that a friend of mine totaled his G 500 rolling on pavement on icy conditions that suggested a malfunction of the esp that contributed to the accident I investigated to see why I did not have esp issues.
It turned out he was on soft winter tires slightly larger than stock but not much.
My conclusion was the E load rating was helping my 32.6 diameter tires from having the esp act up from lack of sidewall flex.
Some have mentioned here with 33s and or underinflated tires that they wished ESP iwas of at all speeds and modified their trucks to do so.
When I did adjust the electronics via the star system the esp function got better and faster as well more effective with the larger tires in abrupt over steer or under steer loss of traction from going out of control from too much speed on a corner.
On the other hand the electronic traction control part of the electronics was indeed not working properly with the tire change to larger diameter than stock but it returned to even better than stock when the changes where made with the adjustments available.
Make sure you adjust both your transmission module as well the speedo and if you adjust for the largest setting available but stay with tires no bigger than 32.6 you will have perfect function as stock or better.
Do your self a favor and pick through many tires to make a set when buying new, for roundness ,low road force numbers(as close to 15 as possible) and proper balance and keep on balancing your tires often, regardless if you have zero issues with vibes on the G
32.6 inch is as big as it gets with zero rub at full flex with the G and some here have done so even with 33s and slight rub at rear inner fender and front trailling arm at full steering lock which is harmless so even 33s are no problem.
Best of luck
Mario |
|
| |
|
Brent
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
| RE: Another tire question
Just for the sake of clarity...
10 ply is a rating, not an actual description of modern radials construction.
E rated LT tires do not necessarily have stiffer sidewalls. In most cases they have the same sidewall construction of C or D rated LT tires. The difference is rated inflation pressures. E rated tires run 80 psi, D 65 psi and C 50 psi, that is the reason for reduced sidewall flex and therefore higher load capacity.
Just because a tire is rated differently does not mean it is necessarily any different. This also applies to speed ratings on tires.
Now do be aware that you can fit LT (light truck) rated tires or P-metric (passenger) rated tires to the G. LT tires almost always have deeper tread and heavier casing construction than P tires. They usually cost (LT) more but are more tire for the money in the end and a better choice for the G in most cases. |
|
| |
|
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Another tire question
Brent - 11/22/2014 9:33 AM
Just for the sake of clarity...
Now do be aware that you can fit LT (light truck) rated tires or P-metric (passenger) rated tires to the G. LT tires almost always have deeper tread and heavier casing construction than P tires. They usually cost (LT) more but are more tire for the money in the end and a better choice for the G in most cases.
+1 |
|
| |
|
512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: Another tire question
I was always told that two truck tires of identical size are constructed different in order to accept the higher or lower payloads and air pressures of different payload max ratings from their manufacturers.
Is this false?
I also experienced that E load rating gets a lot less side wall punctures due to those differences and with lower air pressures for light loads the E load rating ones feel and drive as if they have a lot less flex on the sidewall.
How do they handle the higher max psi and payloads if needed if they are the same on sidewall construction?
So you are saying C,D and E have the same construction on sidewall but only different max air pressures for the differences in payload ratings?
How is that possible?
Anyone that drives back roads with out LT tires is looking for trouble that is well known but higher payload ratings provide advantages over and above just the higher payload capacity and that is not a rougher ride as some claim,you can always adjust pressures for that ....but less punctures and better handling with all payloads you use even if you never need the max capacity of an E load.
I have had D rated tires handle crappy with out much payload on sport utility and pick up trucks running a comfortable 28 psi at speed on gravel roads because their sidewall flexed too much and handling was awefull not allowing the tread to handle as great as the same exact tire size and make did with E load rating and identical conditions.
Those tires were LT michelins 235-85-16 D load versus E
Different rating LT tires do have different sidewalls as well as different woven construction all around in identical sizes ....just mount and dismount them on the rims yourself and you will feel the difference.
Best of all they let ESP work better
Mario
Edited by 512bbi 11/23/2014 1:46 AM
|
|
| |
|
Brent
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
| RE: Another tire question
512bbi - 11/22/2014 10:49 PM
I was always told that two truck tires of identical size are constructed different in order to accept the higher or lower payloads and air pressures of different payload max ratings from their manufacturers.
Is this false?
Well, I can find nothing but conjecture on the subject. I will continue looking, hoping to find a manufacturers site with some useful information. If you go by the sidewall ratings, they have the same number of plies from C to D to E, 2 maybe 3 sidewall plies. Most are 2 and the off road type tires sometimes have a 3rd sidewall ply. It is determined by tire design not load rating.
I also experienced that E load rating gets a lot less side wall punctures due to those differences and with lower air pressures for light loads the E load rating ones feel and drive as if they have a lot less flex on the sidewall.
How do they handle the higher max psi and payloads if needed if they are the same on sidewall construction?
So you are saying C,D and E have the same construction on sidewall but only different max air pressures for the differences in payload ratings?
How is that possible?
How many sidewall punctures have you actually had Mario? I have worked hard at destroying tires off road for decades and only have 2 punctures ever. One on a C rated Goodyear 31x105-15 on a 300GE and the other on a Dodge 3500 285/70-17 D rated. I watched a rock cut a sidewall on my friends truck yesterday morning, it was a BFG AT E range.
I have found much more variation in sidewall flex between manufacturers than load ranges. The dry rotted Michelins I took off the motorhome had incredibly thick sidewalls, the same size and rated Firestones that replaced them were noticeably thinner and more flexible. The motorhome did fine with them as drive tires, I bought 2 more Michelins for the front.
We are not talking about filling tires to 300 psi, just 50,65 and 80.
I can not find ANY reliable information that states otherwise, can you?
Anyone that drives back roads with out LT tires is looking for trouble that is well known but higher payload ratings provide advantages over and above just the higher payload capacity and that is not a rougher ride as some claim,you can always adjust pressures for that ....but less punctures and better handling with all payloads you use even if you never need the max capacity of an E load.
Pure speculation....
I have had D rated tires handle crappy with out much payload on sport utility and pick up trucks running a comfortable 28 psi at speed on gravel roads because their sidewall flexed too much and handling was awefull not allowing the tread to handle as great as the same exact tire size and make did with E load rating and identical conditions.
Those tires were LT michelins 235-85-16 D load versus E
I have at least half a million miles on D or E rated truck tires. I have run larger sized 285/70-17D vs stock sized 265/70-17E on pick-ups for almost 15 years now. I currently run the 285D size on my 3/4 truck. The dealer advised against this change saying "the tires were not meant for that truck, they can't handle the load". The FACT is, both tires are rated for 3195 lbs at max inflation, which is 65 for the D and 80 for the E.
How is this possible?
I ran them commercially, through state inspection staitions, which look VERY closely at tires, NEVER and issue. I never had a D rated tire fail under heavy use, or an E rated one for that matter. My experience is, I prefer the softer ride the D rated tires offer for the same capacity. I NEVER have felt there was a controllability issue with the D rated tires, no matter how big the load. Truth is, D and E tires are both awful for heavy loads with regards to stability. Moving up the real truck tires in the F and G ranges offers vastly more stability as these tires are much more robustly constructed. Those will definately ruin the ride and require a 19.5" wheel.
Different rating LT tires do have different sidewalls as well as different woven construction all around in identical sizes ....just mount and dismount them on the rims yourself and you will feel the difference.
Best of all they let ESP work better
Mario 
Having dismounted and mounted thousands of tires, many of them my own truck tires, I find the differences are in the tires themselves, not the load rating. You seriously think you can feel strength differences between D and E sidewalls? THAT sir is an impressive skill!
In support of your theory, BFG offer the AT KO in 285/70-17 in both a D and E. In the spec sheet the E rated tire is listed at 59 lbs each, the D rated at 56 lbs. I still can not find that reliable source with detailed tire construction information and comparisons.
So rather than debate me with more conjecture, lets find the facts. I am looking and will post up when I find something more tangible than opinion. |
|
| |
|
512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: Another tire question
Brent
I think we look at things from the two different extremes of the spectrum on the subject.
I never run tires at their max air pressure or load capacity.
With the exception of BFG I have experienced all my flats through the years with everything all the way up to D load rating and only one with E rating and it was long story nothing to do with the tire.
Maybe is a coincidence but I seriously doubt it,so I have asked several people in the tire business including a very experienced manager of the tire rack that did me a favor when he ordered his installers to sort through enough tires mounting and dismounting and road forcing to make a set for me with no more than 15 road force per tire ....the result was amazing smooth ride!
The comment made several times is not the amount of plies but the way they are put together for the higher capacity in strength to handle the higher air pressure so they can rate at a higher payload.
I have found a difference as I described above on this thread with more than the Michelin on performance.
The subject on this thread about tires and esp I claim E load rating less issues due to side wall performance.
This is not a contest of tire theory and knowledge I am sure you know a lot more in your profession about tires,all I know is what I have experienced because I had the chance since my young days in the car business to demo a different vehicle out hunting in rough terrain every time I went out.
Most got a lot of flats with out doing anything extreme because they were not LT tires .
Others got flats including my own vehicles from sidewall punctures even from loose small pieces of wood in the forest if positioned just right.
After I went to E load rating it all went away.
If you consider the same point on different brands BFG was the best against flats even at lower than E load rating by far than other brands, and I give them a top score in that but in other tasks that other all terrains are more suited to my needs.
No contest Brent just sharing what I have experienced and you will not verify it at anyones site on the web that makes tires.
As far as my impressive skill on mounting and dismounting I can show you car tires made for performance that experienced tire guys had hell to dismount of my rims on an old real performance race car and they do not run on 80 psi ....not even a small fraction of that at very high speeds.
I developed the sensitivity there when I drive anything ,so my approach is the opposite than yours and never drive lower payload ratings on my sport trucks with high pressure for a better ride as you do.
I still believe they have to be made different to perform so and I do not put 50 or 60 or 80 psi in my tires ever because they would ride like rocks and give bad traction where I go ......
Mario
Edited by 512bbi 11/23/2014 9:38 PM
|
|
| |
|
AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Another tire question
Don't forget that tire technology has improved dramatically over the past several decades.. Comparing a tire from today to a tire from 10-15 years ago isn't too meaningful.
|
|
| |
|
512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: Another tire question
AlanMcR - 11/23/2014 7:53 PM
Don't forget that tire technology has improved dramatically over the past several decades.. Comparing a tire from today to a tire from 10-15 years ago isn't too meaningful.
Very good point and advice.
Mario |
|
| |
