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chris505
Date registered: May 2007
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle(s): '79 280E/'80 280GE/'00 G500
| RE: Sourcing a transfer case ?
I have seen GL-5 75w-90 turn into froth/foam when used in a G tcase, the T case in question got severely overheated as a result (oil foam is a terrible lubricant), so I would definitely recommend against its use in a transfer case.
Redline GL-4 MT-90 or MTL is what I have always used and never had an issue.
Early manual shift 463 transfer cases use brass bushings behind the differential bevel gears, later electric shift 463 tcases use steel bushings behind the bevel gears, this is the only difference between the 2 tcase styles that I can think would affect the oil requirement. |
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| RE: Sourcing a transfer case ?
Part one of the saga appears here: http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=21688&mi...
So I installed the new transfer case and it went like a dream. MB certainly puts out a nice piece of kit. Unfortunately, while the drive train is certainly tighter now, the replacement TC did not solve the vibration/droning issue. It's still there from 59-62 MPH and maybe now, even more so than before. Tonight I'm on my third glass of wine while packing up the core to return to MB. When I get to my fourth, I'll certainly be thinking about packing it in for good on G land.
- FD
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atg
Veteran
Date registered: Nov 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Vehicle(s): 2005 G55, 1985 300tdt
Posts: 129
| Re: Sourcing a transfer case ?
Ha. Whats that chinese saying: Fall seven times, get up eight! Surely you cant quit now! You have a new transfer case! Has this thing been up to speed on a lift so you can go under and look around? |
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| Re: Sourcing a transfer case ?
Well, I didn't have the fourth glass - especially after the hangover I had from the first three, so I'm going to keep working on it.
I have had the truck up to speed on a lift with the wheels hanging, I have set it on four jack stands with the lift and run it with the suspension "in position", and I have run it on a dynamometer where I could watch it run under various loads. In each case, it is clear that the front of transfer case is what is oscillating and causing the "vibration". So the question is, "why" - a question which is not easily answered. So, after a lot of observation and measurement, I replaced the TC because I could not find another reason why it should vibrate, and thus I concluded there must be an internal fault of some kind. Clearly there is another reason that has eluded me.
Tonight I swapped the front TC mount (the "blue" original (463 280 03 86)) as I had installed the "white" ones (463 280 01 86) in all three locations per an MB DSB for vibration complaints. I have not had a chance to run it at "speed", but around town if feels more solid with the blue mount in place. BTW, I have worked on this truck drivetrain so much that it took me exactly 12 minutes, without a lift, to swap that mount, from the time I took the tools out of the drawer until I had them back inside.
The vibration does seem to be better and the drive train is certainly much tighter. So I'm going to keep at it for a while and see if I can't salvage all the time, money, and work I have into this.
- FD
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atg
Veteran
Date registered: Nov 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Vehicle(s): 2005 G55, 1985 300tdt
Posts: 129
| Re: Sourcing a transfer case ?
My 85 300tdt wagon has a coupke noises no 9ne seems able to diagnose no matter how great a mechanic they are. After awhile I just quit trying. That was 100,000 miles ago. Periodically I get remotivated to try something else but then I always find something more interesting to do and another year or two goes by. |
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 464
| Re: Sourcing a transfer case ?
You've surely done your homework and some, extremely informative for all of us. And again, thank you for making time to share your findings. Very happy to hear your not giving up on the G just yet! I'm guessing the only items left for you to check (if not done already) the transmission output flange for play, the alignment between TC and transmission flanges, transmission mounts, motor mounts and perhaps find a shop that can check the shaft balance? I know it's said that the shaft balance isn't that critical but perhaps in some cases, any additional vibration has a greater effect. Not only does the shaft have ear clamps that could effect the balance. Just ideas! I too had some slight vibrations after my shaft rebuild. I climbed under and moved the clamp ears around, then developed a leaky large clamp on one side of the shaft. I did ease the vibration though. I'm about to remove it once again, degrease, bond the rubber boot to the CV cover and wire tie instead of using the large Oetiker clamp. Wish me luck.
Edited by NHDave 3/5/2015 10:01 AM
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 464
| Re: Sourcing a transfer case ?
Floobydust, did you know, if a CV joint is assembled improperly, (by just one ball socket off) the center race will not articulate as it should? It'll go together all right but the center race becomes locked.
I know you bought a new shaft or rebuilt but I would remove the shaft and check that both ends are free to articulate.
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 464
| Re: Sourcing a transfer case ?
I've revisited my shaft to remedy the grease leak this past weekend. It became obvious to me that both ends of the drive shaft have to articulate or installation would be near impossible with one CV end locked.
Also noted, the short shaft rotates at varying rpm as the transmission cycles thru gears. If it where the short shaft, you would feel the vibration come and go with gear changes. As you probably already figured out, your issue seems to exist in the front output side of the TC and only when the front drive shaft reaches a certain RPM, in your case 50-60 mph
Perhaps some drive shaft phasing issue going on?
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| Re: Sourcing a transfer case ?
Yes, I have checked and the HK shaft fully articulates as it should. I am going to check the truck on the lift again now that I have a new TC. I hoping that I can "see" something.
Thanks!
- FD
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| RE: Another Transfer Case Question ?
Is there anyway to force an electronically shifter transfer case in neutral while rolling? Special button sequence? SDS system? Other? I need to definitively rule out the input side (trans, HK shaft) of the transfer case and the ideal way to do that is to coast through the vibration speed with the TC in neutral. The only other option I can think of is to flat tow the truck, but I would prefer not to as one would be risking points on the old license here.
Thanks! |
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 464
| Re: Sourcing a transfer case ?
Yup, towing,, too risky for you and the drivetrain. The way I see it, your homokinetic shaft is not the problem. To test its balance or questionable effect, take a drive on some back road, place the transmission selector in first or second gear, slowly raise the rpm's right up to the 2500-3000 rpm range, same rpm you see driving 50-70 mph highway in forth gear. Take it to 6K rpm in second gear (if your comfortable), still in second gear, your close to or at 60 mph, the wheel drive shafts have reached their mph/rpm, where your seeing and hearing the droning/vibe. The trans output shaft/HK rpm, always cycles and at a greater rpm than the wheel drive shafts.
Edited by NHDave 3/13/2015 12:27 AM
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 464
| RE: Sourcing a transfer case ?
Here's something FB, short discussion about phasing issues.
Perhaps engine mounts and or alignment between both.
Just food for thought, “not that you need any more”, yikes!
http://jniolon.clubfte.com/drivelinephasing/drivelinephasing.html
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