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rhd280
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2014
Location: New Zealand
Vehicle(s): 1982 280GE LWB RHD
Posts: 63
| Need help finding gas leak... photos or shop manual pics
Came home, found petrol tank of 280GE 1982 leaking on garage floor. It was a fairly decent drip-drip on the floor. Pumped out the fuel tank to prevent a fire.
Now on inspection, it's hard to see what went wrong, but I think it may be rotten hoses near the fuel pump which is at the bottom of the tank. It's fairly dirty, and before I dig into it and break something, I would appreciate either photos or text that described how the pipes / hoses attach to the fuel pump and how to disassemble them. Also if something is gone, is this a specific MB part, or a cut pressure hose with hose clamps.
1) Is there a good diagram of the hoses and pipes going in and out of the fuel tank and fuel pump that I can look at
2) What parts tend to give out?
3) Are they parts that I have to buy from MB, aftermarket parts or are they like hoses and hose-clamps, something I can make up
EDIT: Photo removed to be resized. |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
| Re: Need help finding gas leak... photos or shop manual pics
Maybe this old tech article will help
http://www.clubgwagen.com/gtech.php?pageTitle=G-Tech%20Article&sid=... |
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AGuess
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Holly Springs NC
Vehicle(s): 93 500GE, 93 500GE, 2002 G500
Posts: 717
| Re: Need help finding gas leak... photos or shop manual pics
I don't know if this will help or not, but on my 93, if you lift up the rear carpet, at the rear door, there is a square access plate with 4 screws that gives access to the sending unit in the top of the tank. On mine, there was a small 2 inch or so long hose that is plugged on the end. The hose had cracked and when the tank was full of fuel, the pressure in the tank would push the gas through this broken hose. Lot's of gas on my floor and a bad gas smell inside the G.
Lines will run from the sending unit to the fuel filter and to the engine. My fuel filters are in the rear wheel housing, pull the plastic cover on the outside above the wheel's and you might have a filter, etc. there. Just trace all lines and I hope you find a cracked one and not hole in your tank.
Good luck.
AGuess |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: Need help finding gas leak... photos or shop manual pics
AGuess - 2/28/2015 5:58 PM
Lines will run from the sending unit to the fuel filter and to the engine. My fuel filters are in the rear wheel housing, pull the plastic cover on the outside above the wheel's and you might have a filter, etc. there. Just trace all lines and I hope you find a cracked one and not hole in your tank.
Good luck.
AGuess
The fuel filter on my 280GE was located along side the longitudinal frame rail about half way between the fuel tank and the engine. |
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DesertStar
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
| RE: Need help finding gas leak... photos or shop manual pics
Why not try a search for "dripping fuel tank"or "fuel tank" using the search function"? http://pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=15087&posts=47&mid=156027&highlight=fuel+tank&highlightmode=1&action=search#M156027 The thread below has good photos:
http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=14828&posts=5&mid=153319&highlight=&highlightmode=1&action=search#M153319 Mike
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w.james
Veteran
Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: New Jersey
Vehicle(s): 84 280 GE 617A 5sp getrag
Posts: 239
| Re: Need help finding gas leak... photos or shop manual pics
If this is the origional tank, there is a metal pipe that runs across the top of the tank that is connected by rubber line , for venting, Thats the first place I would look. you have to take the down to check. If it started leaking right after you filled it up that probably it.
good luck
w |
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rhd280
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2014
Location: New Zealand
Vehicle(s): 1982 280GE LWB RHD
Posts: 63
| Re: Need help finding gas leak... photos or shop manual pics
Thanks to everyone for the replies.
I do have a confession to make, that I put this one off for a month, after posting the question, and I discovered that my settings don't send me a note when there is a reply. Of course that meant I forgot which forum I posted to (no replies at all on benzworld.org, which is a comment on where the action is), and it was not until Dutch replied there that I came back to this rich font of support.
I made the original posting when I came back from being overseas and found a nice pool of petrol/gasoline under Fritz, my 1982 280GE LWB. However, the weather has been glorious, and my wife reminded me the other day that winter is coming (sounds like Game of Thrones, but is just the fact that we live in the southern hemisphere) and I need to finish building the wall before it does. That means getting Fritz running to tow home half a cubic metre of builders mix and sand.
For us Fritz is a work truck, although when his cloth seats gave out we found an unemployed classic car restoration upholsterer (he had been doing Ferrari restorations, but decided to go to art school, which meant he was broke and affordable) who redid all the seats in saddle leather that we bought when the Xena-Warrior Princess film set closed up and held a 3-day auction. I highly recommend saddle leather for reupholstering G-wagons. It should last a century or two, every scratch (or gouge) makes it look better and like hiking boots, once it breaks in, its very comfortable. But I digress.
I did not know about the access plate, and can't imagine how I would have discovered this on my own. I am a shade-tree mechanic, which means I only become involved in the inner workings of Fritz when he breaks. With over 400,000 miles on him, it is remarkable how infrequent that is. Because he has the patina of age (a poetical way of saying he's covered in dirt, grime, corrosion and has suffered ham-fisted "mechanics" before I rescued him from the US Customs impound lot on the Port of Baltimore wharf where he had been sitting red stickered for two years taking salt showers and enjoying Baltimore's humidity), much of the repair challenge is very different than on a new car. Like how do you get out a phillips head bolt that has been stripped but reused (unscrew direction stripped, re-screw still works, so the cheap bugger screwed it back on)?
Also, thanks to Mike for the pointers on how to do a search. While it seems obvious when someone posts a set of keywords that work, it can be a hit and miss to work out what words someone would have posted to find the right topic. For example, here we call it a petrol tank, and in America they call it a gas tank, but as Mike suggests, they also use "fuel tank", which is pretty obvious when you think about it, but of course I did not. I generally have a policy of allowing half an hour of using the search function before I give up and post a query.
What makes these forums valuable is knowing where to start. There are so many times when I have just jumped into a job, undid a dozen fasteners only to discover afterwards 11 of them were unnecessary, and three broke and one fell into a drain, meaning I had new problems. By reading the post of someone who preceded me, I can go to the one and ignore the 11.
In any case, if someone finds this posting, here's what's happened to date:
My first step came after forum responses told me that the tank straps are the key to everything. Of course, on an old beast you don't just undo them. Have a wire brush standing by to remove all the rust and grit from the tank straps before you start turning the nuts.
I did not know that the metal strap is all that holds the tank into place. It's fairly easy, but first use a wire brush on the threads and spray with WD-40 or equivalent or the pressure on the threaded rod could snap it. This is one of the few places where heating first with a torch is not advised, given that the job was to deal with leaking petrol (gasoline) in the first place. In my case, I started by using rachet wrench, but when I hit resistance, I stopped because I now know the feeling of rust induced torque that precedes snapping the steel. That's when I went in search of the WD-40 and the steel brush (and the eye goggles).
Have heavy rubber "trucker" straps ready to hold the fuel tank in place when the steel tank straps are removed, and make sure you pumped or drained the tank first or it will be heavy. I found rubber straps of about 18-24" to be right, but best to have a range of lengths on hand. Attach one end to the coil spring and the other to the place where the steel strap rod went.
When you let the tank cover down, it will then expose the phillips head bolt and nut holding the fuel pump in place. Trying to remove those two bolts with the tank cover up does not work because the nut hidden on the tank cover turns. Also, if like mine, where the phillips head was stripped, nothing happens. [I should note that I am not certain this is OEM, so your fasteners may be different]. In any case, unless you are real lucky, forget trying to save the bolts. Take very strong wire cutters and snap them off at the nut base. If you don't have enough strength, use a wide-mouth ViceGrip on the wire cutter handles to increase your leverage. Do not succumb to the temptation of using a grinder to cut them off, remember the reason you began the job was because of dripping petrol/gasoline. "Boom" is a bummer especially when working in close quarters (note to self, have fire extinguisher handy and make sure it works).
Remember when replacing the cut-off fuel pump bolts to use stainless steel bolts with hex head not phillips, and do the next mechanic a favor and apply anti-seize compound and a locknut.
At that point, I exposed the utterly rotten hose that was causing the leak. Now I have to find the oversized hose to replace it; it's bigger than a heater hose. Of course the local supply house does not have one and has never seen one so large (I live on an island) and I finished the job on Friday afternoon, so all is closed until Monday.
Then the sun went down and my wife told me new folks have bought the pizza place, so it was big date time (the new owners from India are more generous, better pizza). Today I will continue the inspection, as I am confident other hoses will be rotten as well (thanks for the inspection plate tip AGuess)
If anyone knows the specs for these various hoses that would be appreciated. For example, I learned a while back that the fuel hose on the engine is a high-pressure type and regular carburettor fuel hose is not recommended. What I am looking for is:
Type of hose (overflow, normal fuel, high pressure fuel, etc.)
Length of each segment (in case mine have fully perished)
Inner diameter of each segment (in case mine have expanded)
Also, it was mentioned about a plastic cover. No such thing on my fuel pump. And, mine had a big hose clamp strap holding it to the mounting plate. Not sure if this is OEM or ham-fisted predecessor. Can anyone provide advice or even better a photo?
Looks like rain today, so I best get on with the work. Wife was right, as usual. |
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J.R.
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
| Re: Need help finding gas leak... photos or shop manual pics
rhd280 - 3/20/2015 4:12 PM
If anyone knows the specs for these various hoses that would be appreciated. For example, I learned a while back that the fuel hose on the engine is a high-pressure type and regular carburettor fuel hose is not recommended. What I am looking for is:
Type of hose (overflow, normal fuel, high pressure fuel, etc.)
Length of each segment (in case mine have fully perished)
Inner diameter of each segment (in case mine have expanded)
Here's a start. I don't have the dimensions but if you take a piece to the local supplier, they should be able to help. If the leak is up on the tank, it's low pressure line.
- The vent lines and feed line (from the tank to the pump) carb (low pressure) type fuel hose.
- You only need to use high pressure hose rated for petrol between the fuel pump ( and everything in between) and the fuel distributor under the hood.
- The return line is a straight lineback to the tank so it can be regular carb type fuel hose.
Edited by J.R. 3/20/2015 7:57 PM
 (Bosch CIS x800.jpg)
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 Bosch CIS x800.jpg (292KB - 4 downloads)
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DesertStar
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
| RE: Need help finding gas leak... photos or shop manual pics
Did any of the photos from my reply on 03/01/15 showing a link to someone who has changed out the fuel pump and hoses help ? |
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rhd280
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2014
Location: New Zealand
Vehicle(s): 1982 280GE LWB RHD
Posts: 63
| RE: Need help finding gas leak... photos or shop manual pics
Thanks J.R and DesertStar. All very helpful. It sure is helpful to know what I am supposed to do before I do it! |
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rhd280
Regular
Date registered: Dec 2014
Location: New Zealand
Vehicle(s): 1982 280GE LWB RHD
Posts: 63
| Fount it
Does anyone know what the proper hose diameter for the fuel line between the tank and the fuel pump is on the W460?
I measured 15mm, but the parts supply in Auckland said hose only comes in 12 mm (1/2") or 16mm (5/8"). I ordered both. The 12 mm would not go on, but the 16mm slipped on OK. I clamped it down as tight as I could but it leaked from the tank side. I've managed to get the 12 mm on, but just barely and I don't feel comfortable with it. I also cut away the steel shield so that next time I can replace the hose without taking the tank straps off. Is this a MB part or is it something standard? |
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J.R.
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
| RE: Fount it
rhd280 - 3/24/2015 11:23 PM
Does anyone know what the proper hose diameter for the fuel line between the tank and the fuel pump is on the W460?
I measured 15mm, but the parts supply in Auckland said hose only comes in 12 mm (1/2") or 16mm (5/8"). I ordered both. The 12 mm would not go on, but the 16mm slipped on OK. I clamped it down as tight as I could but it leaked from the tank side. I've managed to get the 12 mm on, but just barely and I don't feel comfortable with it. I also cut away the steel shield so that next time I can replace the hose without taking the tank straps off. Is this a MB part or is it something standard?
This might help: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DPE6B8I/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8...
The specs in the ad indicate 14mm. I found it by looking up the hose for my former 1987 280GE. I think they are the same.
Look further into the ad and you will see it is used in a lot of other mercedes applications. When you search for 14mm fuel rated line, you will find even more. Good luck.
Edited by J.R. 3/25/2015 7:05 AM
 (460 fuel pump feed line extract.jpg)
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460 fuel pump feed line extract.jpg (120KB - 1 downloads)
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artiei
Member
Date registered: Nov 2014
Location: Park City, UT
Vehicle(s): 1984 280SL, 1984 300GD, 1967 MGB
Posts: 19
| RE: Need help finding gas leak... photos or shop manual pics
I had the exact same problem and posted instructions with photos on tank removal and my final fix. here: http://snowgwagon.blogspot.com/2015/10/fuel-tank-repair-or-replace.... |
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