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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| installing poly bushing on panhard rods
One of my mechanics is having a hard time installing some yellow panhard bushings on the press.
Is there anything to know that would make it easier?
These bushings have a lip that extends out on the sides.
Any tips would be appreciated.
These are some of the first ones made long ago in germany and I never got to install the panhard rod ones because the originals were still good
Mario |
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Atl-Wagen
Member
Date registered: Sep 2014
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Vehicle(s): 80's something w460-230ge 2013 Honda Ridgeline
Posts: 47
| Re: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
If they have a lip, are you sure they are not two piece? The orange ones do not require being pressed in.
Edited by Atl-Wagen 5/9/2015 5:20 PM
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
Can you give us some history on panhard rod bushings? I thought they were rubber?
How often should they be replaced?
512bbi is our resident suspension expert and I am looking forward to his thoughts. |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| Re: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
H1LM002G55 - 5/9/2015 5:07 PM
Can you give us some history on panhard rod bushings? I thought they were rubber?
How often should they be replaced?
512bbi is our resident suspension expert and I am looking forward to his thoughts.
H1lm002G55 No expert here ,just a G owner that does a lot of of road and like a good ride.
The G comes with rubber all around that does not last long .
My G has 75 k and most of it is of road because I only drive it when I plan to go off road.
With the raids white front and brown rear springs the G55k rides to my liking except the loose steering feel from the stock bushings.
I worry the stock rubber ones might be necessary not to blow the diffs when one uses them locked for a short time quite often.
I suspect they are build that way on purpose to allow steering lock flex with the diffs locked when having to turn even a little .
These poly bushings are yellow and I just had some entertainment looking some of my old posts here back then when I was trying to learn all about the G getting screwed by the dealer in service under warranty
The poly I purchased back then never got installed except the bushings of the trailling arm to the chassis only.
They are still good but the rest not so.
These yellow ones do not look two piece and do have the lip on the panhard rod ones so I do not know what to make of them.
They did cost a lot back then and I figured if the trailling arm ones make it then the rest will be worth installing also.
What is strange is what I found out about the stock panhard rod ones.
They look like they are made to work in a way that would restrict free rotation so they do not last and they get to break and create play so they need to be replaced.
I do not know how this after market ones will hold.
I know members here had them installed.
It would be nice to hear how they hold up and if they had issues installing or is my new tech lacking....
Mario
Edited by 512bbi 5/12/2015 1:28 AM
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
Any help on how to press in he poly on the panhard rods will be greatly appreciated.
I have the G in the garage sitting with out panhards and unable to be moved and my tech is lost on how to press in the poly with the lip on the edges being larger than the opening on the panhard.
These are the bushings I got from desert service long ago and the fellow on that site is gone with health issues till the end of this month.
Please help
Mario |
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
Who made the poly bushings? Are these from MB / Graz? If so, do you have a part number? |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| Re: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
H1LM002G55 - 5/12/2015 7:05 PM
Who made the poly bushings? Are these from MB / Graz? If so, do you have a part number?
They are from www.desert-service.com and are yellow.
His business is closed till the end of this month for health reasons
Titus Pullo informed me they are the same as his just color difference to orange and there is no issues in installation with his.
I need to go to the shop and see what is up
Mario |
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djdinaz
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Arizona
Vehicle(s): 03 G55
Posts: 439
| Re: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
I've heard of people freezing them before attempting to press in -- less deformation when pressing them.
Would something like a small engine piston ring compressor (with a well greased bushing) provide enough circular compression to get them started? |
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
Looks like GFG actually manufactures them. I suggest that you ask GFG via Email for their installation instructions / advice on installation.
http://www.gfg-shop.de/shop/index.php?cat=c61_Buchsen.html |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| Re: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
Thank you so much!
Mario |
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
My pleasure. If these work for you I plan on buying them also. |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
They seem to be designed to be hard and with little space for flex as they have larger metal bushings in diameter than others in the market and they are not two piece so I am sure they will last.
What I do not know is how they will effect lockers I am a little nervous on that issue.
I am sure they will amplify any issues with tire road force ,roundness and weight distribution.
I do not worry about friction or squeaks on the G because I have done hard poly like this on Rovers with same solid axle trailling arms and panhard rod systems and is trouble free.
Actually with rovers the softer bushings did not work as good as the hard ones.
I will let you know how it turns out
Mario |
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atg
Veteran
Date registered: Nov 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Vehicle(s): 2005 G55, 1985 300tdt
Posts: 129
| Re: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
I thought the originals were super squishy for a reason. Maybe offroading or something. |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| Re: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
atg - 5/14/2015 5:26 PM
I thought the originals were super squishy for a reason. Maybe offroading or something.
They are on the trailling arms to chassis but not the panhard rods....you do not want any flex at all on those bushings.
The way it works is the suspension at least in theory suppose to allow movement of the tires up and down only.
So the trailling arms suppose to control the axles from going forward or back....and the panhards from going left and right at any position of the suspension possible travel.
The reason I use the word suppose is because in reality the G has the axles moving up and down as well left and right AND forward and backwards at the extremes of suspension travel.
On pavement where only a tiny fraction of the suspension travel is used, the bad side effect of the trailling arm design has very small effect on bump steer and the side to side movement from bad panhard rods is so minimal the only bad thing possible is noise from a bad bushing.
Of the road the trailling arms with the original bushings have enough give that if an axle pulls or pushes real hard against them they can flex far enough as if you turn your steering half a turn.
That can compensate when the diffs are locked from having all the load go into the diffs when locked and force a tire to skid while it has great traction because it HAS to go the same revolutions with the other wheel of the locked diff that needs to turn at another speed.......now all the force will go to the diffs until a tire skids or drags instead of the bushings give.
On the other hand this has the side effect of sloppy steering on pavement .
At least in theory if one could have poly that flexes the same as stock rubber with out deforming as the stock rubber does but the panhard rod ones are much stiffer than stock ,you would have a system that lasts longer than stock and does the same job only better because you do not need service while enjoying better steering feel and performance because you never drive loose enough as with busted or deformed stock rubber bushings.
So far my G did great in the past with poly at the ends of trailling arms but original rubber everywhere else.
Now the panhards will be replaced by poly for sure and the debate in my mind is if I should do the large bushings at the trailling arms also or not with poly for the reasons I explained
Mario
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atg
Veteran
Date registered: Nov 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Vehicle(s): 2005 G55, 1985 300tdt
Posts: 129
| Re: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
Interesting stuff. I hadn't thought about the suspension flex issue with locked differentials.
One day I will get into all this stuff. For now I am stuck with the hard as nails g55 suspension. We never get off road with it, which is probably what the guys at AMG expected =:) Someday. |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| Re: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
atg - 5/20/2015 2:17 AM
Interesting stuff. I hadn't thought about the suspension flex issue with locked differentials.
One day I will get into all this stuff. For now I am stuck with the hard as nails g55 suspension. We never get off road with it, which is probably what the guys at AMG expected =:) Someday.
Got advice from the maker of my poly to press it in just like original bushings.
I will squeeze the heck out of them on the press with lube and see what happens.
atg
Of topic but your 55 can ride much softer if you take out the original shocks.
They have a rubber spring inside plus their shock valving and life span is bad so the combo makes a bad ride.
The real reason the shocks are done so is to protect the people that would drive the beast as a sports car......not of road
If you take out only the rears and remove the metal sleeve ,remove the rubber base spring from inside the rear shocks and put back on the truck your ride will be lots better
Mario
Edited by 512bbi 5/21/2015 12:40 AM
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
Success!!
Just used some transmission assembly lube and it was amazing how well it worked.
Using silicone spray before it was not possible to make it happen which is what my tech was doing by quitting thinking he was going to split them in half.
It was amazing to see how after I squeezed these so much they went in and then turn the rod the other side and watch the poly reshaping and coming through like melting butter......I thought I was going to brake them ......this is how far I had to squeeze them to start going in and stop pressing when they looked all the way through from the top.
I am sure they will last as there is nothing that can happen on the vehicle that can come close to what they went through staying healthy while going through the press.
Now if I can only remember which side is left or right on the rear bar.....I can bolt them on the G!
Mario
Edited by 512bbi 5/21/2015 11:23 PM
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
512bbi - 5/21/2015 12:34 AM
atg - 5/20/2015 2:17 AM
Interesting stuff. I hadn't thought about the suspension flex issue with locked differentials.
One day I will get into all this stuff. For now I am stuck with the hard as nails g55 suspension. We never get off road with it, which is probably what the guys at AMG expected =:) Someday.
Got advice from the maker of my poly to press it in just like original bushings.
I will squeeze the heck out of them on the press with lube and see what happens.
atg
Of topic but your 55 can ride much softer if you take out the original shocks.
They have a rubber spring inside plus their shock valving and life span is bad so the combo makes a bad ride.
The real reason the shocks are done so is to protect the people that would drive the beast as a sports car......not of road
If you take out only the rears and remove the metal sleeve ,remove the rubber base spring from inside the rear shocks and put back on the truck your ride will be lots better
Mario
I believe U.S. 2005 model year G55 models came with the "soft" suspension as fitted to the 2005 G500.
Too many complaints received from 2003 and 2004 G55 owners regarding the "hard" suspension if I recall correctly made MBUSA make the change??? Can you confirm? |
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512bbi
Expert
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
| RE: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
I do not know how they were before the compressor.
Mine went in service in 06 being build late as an 05,maybe because is the GE model which was sold later after the K was introduced.
My original amg shocks have those rubber springs and the main springs did not have much spring rate for a bad ride by them selves ,it is the shocks that add to the spring rate
The bad ride was from those rubber springs placed inside the original shocks that added progressive spring rate of very high forces so the total with the original springs was too much even more so when the stock shock absorbers had the tendency to loose their forces in dampening very fast in a few miles so now you have too much spring with out much shock dampening and voila really bad ride.
To top it off those rubbers inside the shocks where in effect right at original spring ride height and have no effect if the vehicle got lifted so they would not come in play then under normal compression of the suspension in street travel.
Worse of all is they can melt and seize the shock but that never happen to me and I went through two sets...real junk.
Any body got a diagram of the panhards ....it probably does not matter but the rear can go on many different ways...I know it sounds stupid but I want my mechanic to put them on on the right position.
Mario |
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: installing poly bushing on panhard rods
GE model vs K model??? What does this mean on the G55?
I am lost.
Please explain.
Also, are you currently running the Koni SPX shocks on your G55?
Are you still at a quarter to half turn on your FRONT shocks? Or did you back them off a bit? |
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