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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| Apprenticeship and strange connections
The July issue of Motorcyclist magazine arrived yesterday. This morning began my usual cover to cover read over a cup of coffee. Richard Parker writes a technical column each month, but this month's article strayed from that theme a bit. He started out talking about being asked to judge a motorcycle show in his current home town of Santa Fe, NM. He said he was recruited by a local custom cycle shop owner by the name of Marc Beyer....
"Why does that name seem to start a little bell ringing in my head?"
The article then turned to Marc's history of apprenticeship with Mercedes Benz in Germany, his attainment of a masters degree in automotive engineering, eventual emigration to the USA, and his work with Europa International until 2004. Ah Ha! That's the reason for that little bell. I remembered Marc from my early associations with the G-wagen when he would often get on the phone to give a bit of advice to this noob trying to adjust from the ways of Land Rover.
The article is ultimately about the value of apprenticeship in gaining technical proficiency in a field. As one who set aside college after graduating salutatorian of my high school class of 250 to pursue a tool and die apprenticeship before returning to earn a mechanical engineering degree in a full co-op program that required completion of a thesis project to graduate (eddy current testing of internal thread machining in case you were wondering), let's just say I could relate.
In today's bottom line, get it now, instant gratification driven society, we might be seeing the end of things like apprenticeship, co-op education, and internships. I for one sure hope not. It was a pleasure to see one of our own held up as a great example of where that kind of pursuit can take you.
http://www.ocdcustomcycles.com/about.html
-Dave G.
PS - forgot to mention that Marc is giving back by offering a program to local youth whereby they're provided with a motorcycle, workbench, tools, and mentoring advice and instruction to help them build a custom bike. Admirable service to the community and the profession.
Edited by hipine 5/25/2015 10:20 AM
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: Apprenticeship and strange connections
I hear you!
In our crumbling society down here, i have given up hiring institution "qualified" people in my biz. They are parrots that regurtitate theory. The "artisans" are the worst IMO because they lack basic hand skills, but have a paper that entitles them to top dollar.
Now I get youngsters from a local technical school, that the mechanical teacher recommends to me. I ask for good hands and a teachable spirit, pay them properly and hold them accountable for everything that they do.
My own children started like this with me also, and then went on to university, but before they did they could mill, fit, turn, wire and weld.
For me there is nothing more beautiful than hands that can do, driven by a mind than can create. Guide the hands and then teach the mind.
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Apprenticeship and strange connections
I agree so much with you both. |
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oskar
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2006
Location: Lyons, CO
Vehicle(s): 1981 280GE, 2002 G500, 280SE 4.5, Audi A4 1.8T
Posts: 708
| Re: Apprenticeship and strange connections
Yes,
education in Germany is different. Today I say I enjoy how and what I have learned. ( At the time a kid, my opinion was a bit different :-) )
start "basic school" at the age of not quite 6. ( Walk to school 30 min - no bus .. in winter ski down the hill to school )
4 years later pass the entry exam to a higher type of school with focus on math/physics/chemistry. Start the first foreign language ( English )
http://www.gymnasium-hersbruck.de
after three years 2nd foreign language ( Latin, my biggest mistake )
During this time, at the local flying club, besides learning flying a plane I learned to drive a car, weld, drill, machine ... lot of woodworking and painting. ( Some gliders are/were made of wood and canvas)
Had a license to fly gilders when I was 14 - for a drivers license I had to wait. 18 is the minimum in 'ol Germany
after a total of 6 years at the high school, there graduated and started apprenticeship as radio and Television technician.
Apprenticeship takes 3 1/2 years - have to pass a test, of course
3 years practice as technician
Craftsman master school for technicians and another exam to pass
- from this point on, not earlier, you are legal to open your own business as and tech apprentices ..
self-tought my programming skills.
in 2001, my sweetheart "imported" me to the US. aka immigration
Today, I am working for a US corp as Lead Senior Software developer. Having zero US education or paperwork :-)
since my education in the 1960/70ies .. and till today, I enjoy enhancing existing and developing new skills.
Oskar
Edited by oskar 5/25/2015 1:27 PM
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fernweh
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
| Re: Apprenticeship and strange connections
oskar - 5/25/2015 10:22 AM
Yes,
education in Germany is different. Today I say I enjoy how and what I have learned. ( At the time a kid, my opinion was a bit different :- ) )
start "basic school" at the age of not quite 6. ( Walk to school 30 min - no bus .. in winter ski down the hill to school )
4 years later pass the entry exam to a higher type of school with focus on math/physics/chemistry. Start the first foreign language ( English )
http://www.gymnasium-hersbruck.de
after three years 2nd foreign language ( Latin, my biggest mistake )
During this time, at the local flying club, besides learning flying a plane I learned to drive a car, weld, drill, machine ... lot of woodworking and painting. ( Some gliders are/were made of wood and canvas )
Had a license to fly gilders when I was 14 - for a drivers license I had to wait. 18 is the minimum in 'ol Germany
after a total of 6 years at the high school, there graduated and started apprenticeship as radio and Television technician.
Apprenticeship takes 3 1/2 years - have to pass a test, of course
3 years practice as technician
Craftsman master school for technicians and another exam to pass
- from this point on, not earlier, you are legal to open your own business as and tech apprentices ..
self-tought my programming skills.
in 2001, my sweetheart "imported" me to the US. aka immigration
Today, I am working for a US corp as Lead Senior Software developer. Having zero US education or paperwork :- )
since my education in the 1960/70ies .. and till today, I enjoy enhancing existing and developing new skills.
Oskar
Harald and I, from the northern cold Germany, we had to walk bare foot to school, even in the wintertime......and no hills - no skiing 
I believe, that's why his feet still hurts today  |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: Apprenticeship and strange connections
During my senior year in high school I told the instructor of my advance placement (college credit) American History class that I had decided not to attend college and pursue a tool and die apprenticeship instead. I don't remember all of his words exactly, but I do remember "...wasting your life..." being in there somewhere.
Because my high school education had been very academically focussed I took a 6 month tool and die school course sponsored by the National Tooling and Machining Institute so I could tell a Bridgeport from a surface grinder before looking for a job. My favorite teacher in that school would lament the fact that years ago, the trades got "the cream of the crop" coming out of high schools, whereas my tool and die class in 1984 was made up of convicts on work furlough programs, welfare moms trying to keep their checks coming in, and others on the lower levels of societal success.
If you have an opportunity to be involved with a child's education, consider all the options, not just the "go to college" track. Some like me need a different path.
All the best,
-Dave G. |
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Gilamonster
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2013
Location: New Mexico
Vehicle(s): G #1 (mix of a 460, 461 & 463), #2 is a 2000 G500
Posts: 151
| RE: Apprenticeship and strange connections
Marc and Franny at OCD are incredible and thankfully they still work on a lot of our local G's; I know Marc loves them. Working with them on my vehicles has been a very positive experience. I wouldn't have even considered the portal project on the camper if I didn't have Marc to do it - he's meticulous in his craft.
We really need to encourage the continuation of apprenticeships in the US. It's a proven system. Despite our current backwards society there are a lot of great kids out there who just need direction and attention.
And as to walking/skiing to school, it was so rough where I grew up we didn't even have a school. We just walked all day... Barefoot...on cactus ... 
William |
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Fenalaar
Elite Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Narvik, Norway
Vehicle(s): 2001 ML270CDI, Polaris 400L Big Boss
Posts: 826
| RE: Apprenticeship and strange connections
"In ass gone by, when people had hair in their time," as I ususally joke, kids that were tired from school, had learning problems, attention deficit disorders, etc. would after primary school seek out either an apprenticeship, get a manual labor job or go to sea.
These days, we try to push everyone through at least high school, before they even can get a cashier job. There are kids that enter high school, that didn't learn anything in primary and secondary school, and the society is just wasting time and money, trying to push a square peg through a round hole. Unfortunately, the jobs that used to be available for people without formal schooling, will these days require some formal paperwork anyways. There's a lot of people that have a good time doing stuff with their hands, but a hard time studying from books.
Johan-Kr |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| RE: Apprenticeship and strange connections
Gilamonster - 5/25/2015 8:20 AM
And as to walking/skiing to school, it was so rough where I grew up we didn't even have a school. We just walked all day... Barefoot...on cactus ...
William
Luxury! We dreamed of walking barefoot on cactus.
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atg
Veteran
Date registered: Nov 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Vehicle(s): 2005 G55, 1985 300tdt
Posts: 129
| RE: Apprenticeship and strange connections
I wonder if you really meant "In ass gone by"...
Whoa. Narvik!
I am from South Dakota, where technical education is alive and well. Manufacturing is not so huge, but seems to be far from dead.
I always think that grade school is where CAD should be taught. It takes a long time to get good at solid works for example. But basic machining would also be nice.
There is some trend back toward this type of thing. Which is really just a measure of how far most people have drifted from making or fixing anything in daily work or life
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.ted.com/talks/gever_tulley_s... |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: Apprenticeship and strange connections
@ atg, nice link, thanks!
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: Apprenticeship and strange connections
fernweh - 5/25/2015 2:12 PM
Harald and I, from the northern cold Germany, we had to walk bare foot to school, even in the wintertime......and no hills - no skiing
I believe, that's why his feet still hurts today
Karl, you are stirring up old memories. Not a single bad one.
Whether it was the walking barefoot to school or me just being a very bad student, my dad had to find me an apprenticeship after 10 years of school hell. Hamburger Zimmermann, a very traditional form of carpentry. We looked like Amish.
I hated my master. A stupid guy with very short hair.
But he taught me how to think, not what to think.
Now, every time I have to solve something difficult, I think of this man. And I have the same short hair.
this one is for Karl: http://www.abendblatt.de/wirtschaft/article129195791/Wie-ein-Gesell...
this one for the rest of you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journeyman_years
Edited by 4x4abc 5/28/2015 4:43 PM
 (zimmermann.jpg)
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 zimmermann.jpg (103KB - 0 downloads)
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atg
Veteran
Date registered: Nov 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Vehicle(s): 2005 G55, 1985 300tdt
Posts: 129
| Re: Apprenticeship and strange connections
I might not be the first Karl on this list, but evidently there are two of us. |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| Re: Apprenticeship and strange connections
4x4abc - 5/28/2015 2:38 PM
.... he taught me how to think, not what to think.
Now, every time I have to solve something difficult, I think of this man....
this one for the rest of you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journeyman_years
Thanks for reminding us of that Harald. I know a lot of people have seen you exemplify those words.
We're all still Journeymen in life in some ways, I think. And still apprenticing in many things.
All the best,
-Dave G. |
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