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PIAA LED bulb
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Posted 1/8/2016 1:39 PM
Nonong
Regular


Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Manila, Philippines
Vehicle(s): 1995 290GD LWB white; 2016 G500 silver
Posts: 88
50
PIAA LED bulb

Does anybody have any experience with the PIAA H4 LED bulb ? I think they are drop-ins with the halogen H4 bulbs. http://www.piaa.com/store/p/808-H4-9003-High-Output-LED-Bulbs-6000k...



(PIAA LED H4.jpg)



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Attachments PIAA LED H4.jpg (159KB - 2 downloads)
#231085
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Posted 1/12/2016 7:49 AM
w.james
Veteran




Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: New Jersey
Vehicle(s): 84 280 GE 617A 5sp getrag
Posts: 239
100
RE: PIAA LED bulb

Just a though, why would you replace a $15 bulb with a $300 Bulb?
Are they that much better?
W
#231143 - in reply to #231085
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Posted 1/12/2016 12:36 PM
AlanMcR
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
2000
RE: PIAA LED bulb

Don't do it.  Summary:

  • They will be brighter
  • The light will spray everywhere because of poor focus
  • Unless you want to live with people flashing their highbeams at you all day, you'll need to adjust the lights way down, meaning you can't see.

More discussion and some alternatives here:

http://clubgwagen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6857

 



Edited by AlanMcR 1/12/2016 12:37 PM
#231147 - in reply to #231085
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Posted 1/12/2016 3:02 PM
oskar
Elite Veteran


Date registered: Sep 2006
Location: Lyons, CO
Vehicle(s): 1981 280GE, 2002 G500, 280SE 4.5, Audi A4 1.8T
Posts: 708
500
RE: PIAA LED bulb

AlanMcR - 1/12/2016 9:36 AM

Don't do it.  Summary:

  • They will be brighter
  • The light will spray everywhere because of poor focus
  • Unless you want to live with people flashing their highbeams at you all day, you'll need to adjust the lights way down, meaning you can't see.

More discussion and some alternatives here:

http://clubgwagen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6857

 



I am thinking to try the heated TruckLite ones.

#231149 - in reply to #231147
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Posted 1/13/2016 12:21 AM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
RE: PIAA LED bulb

While I agree $150 ea. for headlight bulbs is silly, I'm not sure I'm ready to write off any potential for a bulb replacement to work. I mean, a regular incandescent filament "sprays" light everywhere in a 360 degree pattern and the shading in the bulb and housing combine to manage to harness that to correctly impinge on a reflector designed to put the light where it belongs on the road. The SMT LEDs only emit in a 180 degree dome which should, if anything, be easier to handle than the 360 degree radiation from the incandescent filament once properly oriented and located within the bulb and housing.

I also agree that there can be crap bulbs out there that don't work properly with standard reflectors designed for H4s, but their poor performance is a "reflection" of the design choices made by the manufacturer, not a universal truth of the technology. A company like PIAA has it's reputation on the line and I'd be surprised if these bulbs are badly designed.

I'm not going to be the one to pay $300 to try them, but neither would I paint them with a broad brush that covers poorly designed bulbs without giving a good company a fair shake.

I looked at the video of the lamps you chose Alan. No offense, but the first thought was "that blotchy rainbow patten near the truck would be a deal breaker for me" and the second thought was "too bad that guy that cut you off to make the right turn is gone, his headlights lit the road better" To each his own naturally, but I couldn't drive with those. And driving around in an area lit with street lights is no way to say anything about headlight capabilities.

Why does nobody do a comparison with the new light in one side and the old light in the other side. Headlights seem to be, more than anything else, just MADE for a "side by side" (literally) comparison. Even better, set up one of each and alternating-ly cover one or the other with cardboard.

Sorry, rant mode off. No offense meant as you well know by now. Just have to call a one-sided opinion the way I see it. Maybe one day I'll have the cash to spend on such things and be able to make my own comparison. Till then I'm still burnin' the old school Edison Illuminators.

http://edison.rutgers.edu/yearofinno/EL/Doc2338_PearlStreetarticle_...

All the best,

-Dave G.
#231155 - in reply to #231147
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Posted 1/13/2016 2:31 AM
AlanMcR
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
2000
RE: PIAA LED bulb

As I pointed out in the description, the odd blotchy parts are out of view of the driver or any occupant who doesn't have their eyeball pressed up to the upper edge of the G windshield.  In practice, the illumination is excellent, with little light wasted in the foreground.  Taking the example of the vehicle that cut me off, those headlights waste a lot of light on the asphalt right in front of the car, some of which the driver can't even see.  Sure it makes some bright pools of light, but by the time an object is that close its too late.

What I like about the pattern is that the vast majority of the light is thrown way down the street without blinding the oncoming drivers.

The bluish tint is my main complaint.  I understand why they are choosing to go for a high color temperature.  Still don't like it.

Disclosure: I'm in the LED business these days (recent job change) and we do automotive.  However, our LEDs are not in the Pilot/Noldens.  I'm pretty sure they aren't in the PIAAs either.

#231156 - in reply to #231155
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Posted 1/13/2016 6:22 AM
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
5000
RE: PIAA LED bulb

hipine - 1/13/2016 12:21 AM

I looked at the video of the lamps you chose Alan. No offense, but the first thought was "that blotchy rainbow patten near the truck would be a deal breaker for me" and the second thought was "too bad that guy that cut you off to make the right turn is gone, his headlights lit the road better" To each his own naturally, but I couldn't drive with those.

-Dave G.


It may all be in Alan's camera, but my JW Speaker LED's appear to have a far superior light pattern compared those in Alan's video.
#231159 - in reply to #231155
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Posted 1/14/2016 7:47 PM
AlanMcR
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
2000
RE: PIAA LED bulb

DUTCH - 1/13/2016 3:22 AM  It may all be in Alan's camera, but my JW Speaker LED's appear to have a far superior light pattern compared those in Alan's video.

Absolutely.  The drive camera cranks up the contrast in night mode.  Just look around the images, everything has harsh sharp edges.  As a result any variations in the light pattern are grossly exaggerated. As for a third party evaluation: I picked my son from the airport, when I flipped on the lights his first comment was "wow, what did you do?".

#231180 - in reply to #231159
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Posted 1/14/2016 10:14 PM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
RE: PIAA LED bulb

AlanMcR - 1/13/2016 12:31 AM

...I understand why they are choosing to go for a high color temperature.  Still don't like it.



Good stuff Alan. Thanks for sharing. Since you're in the biz now, maybe you can help me. Why DO they choose the high color temperature? Personally even the best designed LED systems in new cars are very fatiguing to my eyes, both as an oncoming driver, and from behind the wheel. Higher temp light scatters at more acute angles when diffracted which has to always be a bad thing. I've never understood any reason for high temperatures other than to emphasize "That's different" to the initial observer.

Please "enlighten" me!

-Dave G.
#231187 - in reply to #231156
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Posted 1/15/2016 1:50 AM
AlanMcR
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
2000
White LEDs

"White" LEDs operate a bit like a fluorescent light in that they are a short wavelength monochrome light emitter that is phosphor down converted to a broad color spectrum.  The underlying LED emits "Royal Blue" which is about 445nm, pretty close to UV.  That is the blue spike seen below.   (Actual fluorescent tubes start off as mercury vapor lamps, which are an even shorter wavelength, closer to UV color).  Layered on top of the LED is a secret sauce of phosphors that absorb the 445nm light and fluoresce in other colors, that is the rainbow below.  These colors are always longer wavelengths (lower energy) than the pump wavelength.  Each photon that gets down converted loses a bit of energy, the warmer the light, the more energy is lost in that photon. 

The primary measures of white LEDs are lumens/watt, which is a measure of how bright it looks, and color rendering index, CRI, which is a measure of how close to ideal sunlight it looks.  Headlights emphasize raw lumens being thrown down the road, so CRI is sacrificed on the alter of lumens/watt.  And the best way to boost Lum/W is to do less down converting.  High Lum/W has a secondary benefit: Every electron forced through the LED turns into light or heat, the more light thrown out, the less waste heat needs to be dealt with.  Heat is a big deal in LEDs, a typical high power LED is about 1mm square and supports as much as 10 watts.  That heat needs to be kept down below critical values, otherwise the magic smoke leaks out.

So, you ask, why fool around with all this phosphor? Why not just mix red, green and blue LEDs to make a pleasing white?  The simple answer is that red and green LEDs are quite inefficient and suffer from heat related problems.  So much so that some of those ultra bright LED tail lights you see are actually royal blue phosphor converted to red or amber.   Another reason is that many lighting applications require sharp focus, and without expensive and lossy optics, three separate LEDs would project a multicolored light at the fringes.

Typical white LED spectral distribution



Edited by AlanMcR 1/15/2016 2:03 AM
#231191 - in reply to #231187
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Posted 1/15/2016 1:32 PM
2000BEAST
Regular


Date registered: Jul 2010
Location: NOCAL USA
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500 / 2008 Carrera S / 2019 GLC 43
Posts: 83
50
Re: PIAA LED bulb

Wow... that's a buncha dough $$$ for new light bulbs ! Seems like LED is coming down in leaps and bounds for residential use, maybe its just a matter of time until automotive catches up ?

One of my original OSRAM halogen H4's went out last year, so I ordered a set of Philips XtremeVision (+130%)bulbs and really noticed a marked difference. The "color" is more "whitish" than the older halogens so it gives an updated look to some extent as well.

I have always been impressed with the stock headlights on my G anyway... the combination of a high quality H4 bulb and that big old round headlight housing/lens really lights up the road ahead. For $40 I improved upon an already impressive (to me) headlight arrangement, and got a bit of an updated look.

FWIW
#231201 - in reply to #231085
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Posted 1/15/2016 11:12 PM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
RE: White LEDs

Thanks bro!

So the only real "advantage" - more light for less power consumption - is really just a trick of the engineers being allowed to manage more compromises and trade offs, and at the end of the day we pay for those watt "savings" with light that's still crappy, just crappy in ways other than perceived "dimmness." That seems about right. No free lunches in the big universe.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to lay it out in such an "illuminating" manner.

I've been meaning to try some LED H4s in my motorcycle to save a few watts to put toward heated grips. The ones I'm looking at aren't $300 a pair so I might give them a try just to "see."

All the best,

-Dave G.
#231208 - in reply to #231191
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Posted 1/28/2016 3:12 PM
mb230s

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SWFL
Vehicle(s): G-less for now, vintage MBs, FJ40
500
Re: PIAA LED bulb

I've heard those LED H4 conversion bulbs are really bad optics.

I didn't really like the cost nor the look of the JWS lights. I was about to order another set of 7" round e-codes...and Daniel Stern mentioned Truck-Lites and Petersons as being very good (but not as good as JWS). Both are much more reasonably priced also when you consider the savings on re-wiring, relays, bulbs, etc. These simply plug in and look more like a conventional light then the JWS.

The Petersons (that I got) -

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MHX979S/?tag=2402507-20

Truck-Lites -

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007K8AA7I/?tag=2402507-20

$165-175 each.

Sylvania's unit is a rebranded Peterson. GE's is a rebranded Truck-Lite. And then there are dozens of Chinese copies. A pair for less then a single Truck-Lite or Peterson. I didn't want to risk it and like the Made in the USA for the original product. Haven't installed yet - maybe next week.

Edited by mb230s 1/28/2016 3:13 PM
#231343 - in reply to #231085
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Posted 2/1/2016 5:53 AM
Fenalaar
Elite Veteran


Date registered: May 2006
Location: Narvik, Norway
Vehicle(s): 2001 ML270CDI, Polaris 400L Big Boss
Posts: 826
500
RE: PIAA LED bulb

Stay away from that crap.

The headlight reflectors are calculated for the light from the bulb to be emitted from a specific filament position and filament light emitting pattern. If you move the light emitting source or change its emitting pattern, the light patterns will be different, and you will get huge amounts of stray light. Do you really want a car in your front, or cause someone to mow down a pedestrian beacuse your lights dazzled them so they don't see shit?

This is the reason why HID bulbs are illegal to use in Halogen reflectors.

If you want LEDs, get a kit with proper reflectors and optics for the light source.

Johan-Kr
#231363 - in reply to #231085
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Posted 2/1/2016 7:03 AM
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
5000
RE: PIAA LED bulb

Fenalaar - 2/1/2016 5:53 AM

Stay away from that crap.

The headlight reflectors are calculated for the light from the bulb to be emitted from a specific filament position and filament light emitting pattern. If you move the light emitting source or change its emitting pattern, the light patterns will be different, and you will get huge amounts of stray light. Do you really want a car in your front, or cause someone to mow down a pedestrian beacuse your lights dazzled them so they don't see shit?

This is the reason why HID bulbs are illegal to use in Halogen reflectors.

If you want LEDs, get a kit with proper reflectors and optics for the light source.

Johan-Kr


+1
#231364 - in reply to #231363
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