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petermerle
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Cape Town ( deep south )
Vehicle(s): W460 *1, W123 *2, W124
Posts: 1315
| Re: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
Anyone know someone at Graz who can provide history on this G?
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
Some more from the horses mouth:
Hi. So, my pc has finally packed up after 12 years and unable to retrieve my login for p3 or post few pics in response... Apologise as I know pics explain much better.
1: Mounting arms are stock items, not fabbed. They look the similar/same as ones I imported from fourbyfourclub for OM617 conversion on my shorty some years back, but looks like cast iron, not aluminium. Hard to see clearly The sump clears the diff by few cm and even with sagged soft front springs has not touched diff and will not. The sump is far wider and longer than 617n/a and has a nice concave curve going around diff on corner of sump (not a fabricated curve but stamped out of original press like that.
Oil cooler is located in front of radiator under aircon radiator which appears to have been shortened to make space. Rigid pipe is routed from filter housing, going under engine bracket, then past back of ac compressor (now it changes to flexible pipe) down to under radiator shroud. Noticed an alternator snorkel fitted with 102 part number, guessing for serious fording? One oddity is no viscous, just a spacer after waterpump pulley attached to flat plate which fan is attached to. So, 100% fan always on. Who knows if it came like this or not.
From documents, notes in file and service sticker on side of dash indicating next service mileage in 2010, it does look to me to have 125500km from new.
So far, Peter has come up with the most plausable and logical suggestion supporting that this G was ordered, custom built by MB and delivered new with OM617a and will stick with that (yes, I am completely biased, but let's ignore that)
One guy who phoned me over the advertised 230 I had reckoned Germany is full of turbodiesel G's 617a that came out like that. Must say I am quite curious and look forward to learning more.
Will post some pics soon as able to.
Sent from my ST27i using Tapatalk |
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WEBIII
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Oct 2010
Location: Inlet Beach, FL
Vehicle(s): 461.318, 463.241
Posts: 315
| Re: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
petermerle - 1/26/2016 1:40 AM
Anyone know someone at Graz who can provide history on this G?
Paging Heinz... |
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w.james
Veteran
Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: New Jersey
Vehicle(s): 84 280 GE 617A 5sp getrag
Posts: 239
| Re: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
I would be really interested to see how the mounted the AC Compressor?
W |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
w.james - 1/27/2016 8:34 PM
I would be really interested to see how the mounted the AC Compressor?
W
It is not too complicated on a RHD. You do need a smaller pump that the original one that came with that emgine.
It fits under the power steering pump. I am not sure what Leonard's one looks like though. |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| Re: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
Warren T - 1/24/2016 4:05 PM
...It has a non turbo 617 fast idle control that doesn't work well with a turbo (spools up and RPM runs away)....
Warren
Not if it's adjusted correctly. At least the one in my truck doesn't do that. It's actually kind of a silly idea that it would. Does the turbo spool up and let RPMs run away when you touch your foot to the accelerator pedal a couple millimeters? No. MB engineers are better than that. I find the idle adjustment useful and usable with the 617A.
-Dave G. |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| RE: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
Leonard sent me some pictures. It appears that whoever did this job used standard 617a cast steel mount arms and trapezoidal mounts but did a lot of sculpting on the upper aluminium oil pan and pressed the lower steel section to clear everything. |
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bram_r
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
| RE: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
Boy G - 2/2/2016 8:30 AM
Leonard sent me some pictures. It appears that whoever did this job used standard 617a cast steel mount arms and trapezoidal mounts but did a lot of sculpting on the upper aluminium oil pan and pressed the lower steel section to clear everything.
If possible, can you share some of these oil pan modification pictures?
gr. Bram |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
Peter can you upload pictures? I cant reduce the ones Leonard sent me on my tablet.
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Doug Nel
Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Vehicle(s): 1982 280GE 5 door automatic
Posts: 258
| RE: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
Send them to me Andrew. I will upload. |
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LeoGionnaire
New user
Date registered: Jan 2013
Location: Cape Town
Vehicle(s): 460 OM60?, 460 OM617A PTO
Posts: 4
| RE: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
Picture taking was a bit tricky, hard to get in places. See from these it needs a good clean....
Aircon compressor location standard position for this engine and no issue with it being rhd.
Idle adjust screw works fine, idles high at full turn but doesnt run away.
VDO guage was replaced with a chinese unit at Dealership, but same location. (previous owner)
PTO with winch, and tropical roof(basically an extra roof panel bolted to normal roof with a space between. I think this one received many optional extras with custom work.
I would also be very interested if anybody has contact with a person at Graz that could check if more info available than datacard.
Leonard
Edited by LeoGionnaire 4/10/2016 4:41 PM
 (Engine number.jpg)
 (Boost.jpg)
 (Oil cooler.jpg)
 (Mount.jpg)
 (Turbo top.jpg)
 (Sump.jpg)
 (Sump diff.jpg)
 (Sump top mod.jpg)
 (Heat shield.jpg)
 (filters.jpg)
 (Tropical viscous.jpg)
 (Snorkel.jpg)
Attachments
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 Engine number.jpg (111KB - 0 downloads)
Boost.jpg (80KB - 0 downloads)
Oil cooler.jpg (141KB - 0 downloads)
Mount.jpg (124KB - 1 downloads)
Turbo top.jpg (122KB - 0 downloads)
Sump.jpg (136KB - 0 downloads)
Sump diff.jpg (131KB - 0 downloads)
Sump top mod.jpg (102KB - 0 downloads)
Heat shield.jpg (142KB - 0 downloads)
filters.jpg (103KB - 0 downloads)
Tropical viscous.jpg (92KB - 0 downloads)
Snorkel.jpg (90KB - 0 downloads)
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
Thanks SO much for sharing these. We really appreciate your taking the time to "focus!" on the important parts. If there's any way to find out, part numbers for the oil cooler, oil pan (sump), motor mounts, and radiator would be really interesting to have. These are the tricky bits that anyone who performs a conversion ends up finding their own best compromise on.
Again, thanks so much for taking the time. You've pushed the knowledge on this subject forward farther with this post than has been done in 10 years.
-Dave G.
PS - For Andrew, any opinion on the radiator (3-row like a M110 rad, or something else? Full width of the opening like a M102?
I have what I believe to be a factory crate motor 617A still on the garage floor that I'd like to fit to the LWB. On this third iteration maybe I have time/money to devote to some real fine points like a really good oil pan solution. First iteration was do the conversion, even though the motor was worn out. Second iteration was to build a good motor, though for some reason #1 cylinder compression on that one is not what it should be (though it is in spec) after 120k miles give or take, still runs fine but you know how it is when you know something's not what it could be. So when I stumbled on this motor a couple years ago I grabbed it. Local indie wrench tells me he's only seen this sand-cast looking finish on valve covers of crate motors (all I've seen are die cast smooth). I'm not sure if there's any way to track the motor's history via the engine number or not. Anyhoo, all the best and thanks for all your help.
Edited by hipine 4/12/2016 9:21 AM
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Warren T
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): 230GE,300GD,300D
Posts: 519
| Re: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
Dave, a factory rebuilt engine will have a new serial number on a metal plate riveted to the front of the block just
below the head...between vaccum pump and water pump housing. Not sure they are still available, very expensive at the time.
Warren |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| Re: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
He was talking not so much a factory "rebuilt" as a "crate motor" - a motor that was originally manufactured with the intent that it be supplied as a spare assembly. I can have a look to see if there is such a plate, though I don't remember seeing one.
Thanks Warren!
-Dave G.
PS - I pulled the motor out of storage yesterday to get to work on prepping it for install (mainly the flywheel fitment) and yes Warren, it has has the plate you mention on the front of the block. I couldn't get a good look at the boss above the oil filter housing mount to see how the number there might compare to the one on the metal plate.
Edited by hipine 4/25/2016 10:53 PM
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petermerle
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Cape Town ( deep south )
Vehicle(s): W460 *1, W123 *2, W124
Posts: 1315
| RE: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
Here is a confirmed one - sitting at The Mercedes Classic Center museum
 (FJS460Story.jpg)
Attachments
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FJS460Story.jpg (101KB - 1 downloads)
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
Interesting! I wonder how many they did. We now know of two. |
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bram_r
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
| Re: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
Boy G - 8/3/2016 9:27 PM
Interesting! I wonder how many they did. We now know of two.
How many high level persons wanted a more powerful 300GD at that time is the question  |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: Ok here goes: factory fitted 617 A
bram_r - 8/3/2016 5:49 PM
Boy G - 8/3/2016 9:27 PM
Interesting! I wonder how many they did. We now know of two.
How many high level persons wanted a more powerful 300GD at that time is the question : )
He he! At least two. Franz Josef Strauss of Austria and Leonard from Cape Town. |
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