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ychung
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2015
Location: SO CAL
Vehicle(s): 2004 G500, 2014 ML350, 2008 S550
Posts: 196
| Dead Battery
Happy New Year to all!
I didn't drive the car for two days and the battery was completely dead this morning.
I took the battery out and will take to shop to check and to charge it, it currently reads 5V
It's a one year old MB battery and I think it should be good once it's charged.
There may be a couple of things that might caused the battery to drain.
Three days ago, driver side seat control switches weren't working and the fuse(#27) was fine when I checked.
However, when I put the fuse back the seat control started worked fine again.
The other thing I noticed this morning while taking out the battery was that the rear driver side door open button is not rebounding smoothly and not all the way out.
Did anyone had similar issues?
Once I put charged battery back and start the car, where do I start to find the culprit?
Thank you in advance for your comments. |
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J.R.
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
| RE: Dead Battery
If the shop that is charging your battery confirms it is a good battery via loads test, here is a not too bad of a video on finding parasitic amp draws. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhC8xj5vHUg
Edited by J.R. 1/3/2017 8:14 PM
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Dead Battery
The first suspect is if "unknowingly" the parking lights where manually left on. Most all other lighting does auto off after several minutes. Once you've installed the charged battery, leave all the doors open, even the rear. Make sure all the interior lighting shut down after a few minutes. When and "if" all lighting shuts off, listen for any sound from command.. connect a volt meter to the battery terminals, check voltage..repeat several minutes later..if a drop in voltage by .1volt, something is drawing. This is the first and easiest check..after that..time to setup the meter to read draw from the battery as fuses are being tested.
Edited by NHDave 1/3/2017 8:24 PM
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ychung
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2015
Location: SO CAL
Vehicle(s): 2004 G500, 2014 ML350, 2008 S550
Posts: 196
| RE: Dead Battery
As I expected, the battery is confirmed excellent after charging, and when I put it back, car starts as normal and all electrical switches are working fine.
It reads 12.5V cold and 14.5V when engine is running.
Since I don't have a multimeter, I'm testing it with circuit test light and I think there is current drawing with everything off.
I've connected one test lead to negative post and the other one to negative battery cable, and the test light stays on.
Am I understanding this correct?
Can someone confirm that this is enough testing and I don't need to check it with multimeter which has to draw less than 0.1 Ampere?
Do I go to next step to check each fuse by pulling out one at a time?
Could it also be one of the CAN? |
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Dead Battery
Pulling fuses one at a time and replacing the fuse one at a time, will activate the WAKEUP mode. Just like when you open the drivers door and all the interior lights, dash and command unit turn on. A multimeter is best and a fairly cheap investment
Keep an eye on the 12.5V...usually when the voltage drops below 12.4V...the electronics begin to act strange.
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J.R.
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
| RE: Dead Battery
ychung - 1/3/2017 11:27 PM
Since I don't have a multimeter, I'm testing it with circuit test light and I think there is current drawing with everything off.
I've connected one test lead to negative post and the other one to negative battery cable, and the test light stays on.
Am I understanding this correct?
Can someone confirm that this is enough testing and I don't need to check it with multimeter which has to draw less than 0.1 Ampere?
Do I go to next step to check each fuse by pulling out one at a time?
All you have done is to connect your test light in series and the light simply confirms that at a minimum, the truck's normal "snooze" mode is drawing a few milliamps. What it does not tell you is how many amps or milliamps are being drawn, therefore, you do not know whether or not there is something still running that should not be.
No, pulling the fuses with what you have setup will not work. You will have no way of knowing if you found the problem. The method in the video of identifying voltage drop is the better way because you will not be reawakening circuits as will happen if you pull fuses.
Multimeters (DVOM) are available for reasonable prices at every automotive parts store, Sears, Walmart, etc. It is worth the $20 or so. Look for 10 or 20 amp tester built in. |
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ychung
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2015
Location: SO CAL
Vehicle(s): 2004 G500, 2014 ML350, 2008 S550
Posts: 196
| RE: Dead Battery
I just didn't have a multimeter with me last night, when I check it with multimeter now, it draws 2.5 Ampere.
Two things that I've noticed, command unit's power button illuminates slightly when I put multimeter on negative cable and post.
I knew that I can turn the radio on and off without the key in ignition, I've also had noticed that after pulling out the key, the fan(?) on the back of the command unit stays on for while
Is this supposed to be turned off after certain minutes? If not, it will constantly draw the current.
I couldn't check the voltage on fuse #64 for command unit due to location of fuse box, I think I'd need to take the whole fuse box down to check the voltahe.
Am I supposed to take out fuse box on passenger side to check and replace the fuses?
Also, the battery was making a noise every 12 seconds or so and when I turn the switch on side bolsters on Muliti Contour control unit, the battery was making the same noise constantly.
Is this sound from the battery norm?
Is the air pump on all the time when the engine is on?
Coincidence or not, the side bolster doesn't work now, when I push the switch on it only makes w weak air leaking noise.
It's a pain but I'm learning lots of new things about the car and hopefully I can resolve the issue soon.
Again, Thank you all for your help and input. |
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Dead Battery
Yes, the command will have a fan sound for several minutes after the key is removed.
The noise you hear every 12 seconds is coming from the bolster air pump, located next to the battery.
If the bolster is not working then a hose has slipped out of a connector. There's a connector under the driver seat and a couple more located behind the seat, once you remove the rear panel. |
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ychung
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2015
Location: SO CAL
Vehicle(s): 2004 G500, 2014 ML350, 2008 S550
Posts: 196
| RE: Dead Battery
Thanks for the comment David,
Now, how do I get to behind the seat to locate connectors, which rear panel are you referring to? |
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Dead Battery
The back of the two front seats can be removed. Once you remove a couple screws, located near the floor (flashlight needed), if I remember correctly....the panel can be lifted up towards the headrest and it should come free. |
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ychung
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2015
Location: SO CAL
Vehicle(s): 2004 G500, 2014 ML350, 2008 S550
Posts: 196
| RE: Dead Battery
Thanks again David, I'll check that once I resolve the issue with battery drains.
I have a question in regards to checking the voltage on each fuse.
Am I supposed to disconnect the negative terminal? Wouldn't it be same even if I leave it connected?
The currents will not flow if they are not supposed whether the battery is connected or not. Am I missing something here?
I apologize for asking simple electrical question, but this is first time I'm dealing with the wonderful world of voltages and amperes.
Here are some findings on checking voltages with battery connected.
Fuse 'G' was reading wide range of voltage, fluctuating from 3 to over 100 mv.
When I pulled fuse out, it was burnt badly, however, burnt metal pieces weren't quite separated, I'm wondering if that's making the big range of voltages jumping up and down.
I also found some voltage reading on fuse for teleaid at @3 mv, and aigbag warning at @1.5 mv
I was only able to check the voltages for fuses on driver side today.
What kind of voltage would cause the battery drains?
Do I need to check all other fuses on driver side and under the arm rest in the middle?
Fuse 'G' was labeled as Engine Fan, and here are some questions.
How did I drive without any issue with the fan on? Wouldn't it cause the car to overheat?
When does the fan turn on? Is it has to do with coolant temperature?
How do I look for the cause of blown fuse? or should I just drive until it blows again?
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Dead Battery
Your needing to use mV readings while checking the fuses. You must connect the battery terminals, remove the key...leave any door you think you might want to open during testing fuses.. wait until all lights shut off, could take five to ten minutes. Avoid opening the engine hood. Then start checking the fuses using the needle tipped probes leads. Do not remove a fuse to avoid the WAKEUP sequence, if you do, you'll need to wait another 5-10 minutes for the system to fall asleep. The video is worth watching again? Keep us posted? NHD
Edited by NHDave 1/4/2017 10:46 PM
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Dead Battery
Nothing simple about G wagon electronics, when they go crazy!!!
Your truck has a low voltage communication system called CANBUS. It's activated the minute you unlock the door with your key and it takes several minutes to shut down after you lock the door, with your key. If you test fuses when the CANBUS is still active, you will see fluctuating voltages in the range you've experienced.
Not sure what Fuse G is used for ychung? I do not have my fuse chart available at the moment.
If you have a fuse shell that looks burnt but the internal element is still it tack, I would think either bad contact or close to excessive draw on that circuit.
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ychung
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2015
Location: SO CAL
Vehicle(s): 2004 G500, 2014 ML350, 2008 S550
Posts: 196
| RE: Dead Battery
Actually the blown fuse was 'H', and when I look up the fuse chart, both 'H' and 'G' are labeled for Engine Fan.
I replaced the blown fuse yesterday and everything looks and works normal now.
Can anyone explain to me how does engine fan works? How and when does it change the speed?
What could be cause of blown fuse?
How do I check to see if there is any issue with engine fan?
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Dead Battery
That's good news!
The engine fans will run at different speeds when the AC is turned on and or when the engine coolant temp exceeds a fixed limit.
Two fans running is high and sounds crazy loud!
You said that your fuse didn't blow but the casing looked melted or distorted. This could have been caused by either the fuse was old and the fuse element has developed invisible hairline cracks..causing it to heat up from a reduction in its rating. Or one of your fans is not freely spinning.
One way to check if your fans are working properly is to turn on the AC and leave the truck idling for a while. Helps if outside temps are 70 or above.
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ychung
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2015
Location: SO CAL
Vehicle(s): 2004 G500, 2014 ML350, 2008 S550
Posts: 196
| Re: Dead Battery
I don't think I have any issue with two Aux. Fans on the front, I think I might have a issue with Fan clutch.
How do I check to find out if the Fan clutch is working fine?
Does it supposed to turn fast when I start the engine in the morning when engine is cold?
It slows down with normal engine idling.
Is there correlation between RPM and Fan speed?
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Dead Battery
The fuses you mentioned are related to the auxiliary fan's.
The "viscous fan clutch" is mechanically operated.. Not sure how to check its proper function, other than your engine temp will climb or run too cool? |
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ychung
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2015
Location: SO CAL
Vehicle(s): 2004 G500, 2014 ML350, 2008 S550
Posts: 196
| RE: Dead Battery
I still haven't solved the draining issue, and here are the things that I've found so far.
The battery draws about 2.4 A with everything off.
When I check the voltage on fuses, I found following,
Fuse 34(Tele Aid) 3.2 mv
Fuse 42(Instrument Cluster) 1.3 mv
Fuse 64(Command) 5.0 mv
I've removed relays M and F, but current draw didn't change.
I found out that I can just remove tele aid module out and have a dealer deactivate it which will take care of issue with Fuse 34.
For instrument cluster and command issue, where do I go from here?
Are those two units need to be replaced?
Could these be CAN Bus related issues?
Are there something else I can check before I decide to take it to dealer?
I think I'm running out of option but to take the car to dealer.
I can still drive the car since it charges the battery while I'm driving to work and home.
It recharges to about 12.3 V but that drops down to 11.8 in the morning, and I don't know how long that will jeep up.
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Dead Battery
Start with disconnecting Tele-Aid and removing fuse 34 to see if the system goes to sleep...if not, you can leave tele aid disconnected but replace the fuse as it may be part of other powered functions.
No replacement needed!!!!!!! The command and cluster will remain active if something is causing them to wake up.
Can-bus is a possibility but not that common... Unless you've been seeing water build up on the front floor mats for a while. If so, water could be dripping behind the dash and onto the can bus junction bar, this can cause corrosion to the contacts within the junction bar. But rare!
A hunch.... check the engine compartment open switch? Usually I think it will sound the alarm or give you a cluster warning.
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ychung
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2015
Location: SO CAL
Vehicle(s): 2004 G500, 2014 ML350, 2008 S550
Posts: 196
| Re: Dead Battery
What are you referring as the engine compartment open switch?
Also, when the fuse is out, does that make related module irrelevant?
By the way, I've fixed side bolster on multi contour per your advise, easy 5 minute fix. Thank you. |
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