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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| Intermittent starting problem 617a
Hello all
Have been driving my G for roughly six months now and have begun having intermittent starting problems. cranks fine battery is charged . Glow plugs all new bosch,test fine.
Usually happens after driving and warmed up.
Hop in turn key wait till light goes out and cranked.
Engine turns over but no start. Usually fires right off and run and idle fine.
Sometimes starts but slow throttle response and will die at idle.
Try again and start and run fine or crank crank crank no start.
Had meter on #1 glow plug and always getting voltage to it.
Could it be injection pump,air in line.
It seems like engine wants to be in certain location to start,TDC or somthing
Scratching my head . It's a 617a turbodiesel out of a 300sd.
Never had an issue In other car.
Filters fairly new diesel purge 2 mnths ago valves set last week.
Was intermittent prior to valve adj.
Any help appreciated
Sean
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bram_r
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
| Re: Intermittent starting problem 617a
Did you also check your tank vent lines if these are not blocked? If your tank gets vacuum, you would likely see hard starts, stalling engine etc.
I once had an issue with a machine that had something floating in the tank (piece of plastic). On some occassions it would land in front of the suction line and the machine wouldn't start.
Next time it started fine.
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Aircruiser
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2011
Location: Atlanta GA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500, 1986 300GD, 2017 Porsche Cayenne Hybrid
Posts: 364
| Re: Intermittent starting problem 617a
It would be easy to check your fuel primer bulb/plunger for leaks. They have been known to leak air into the system when old. |
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bram_r
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
| Re: Intermittent starting problem 617a
Aircruiser - 3/21/2017 8:45 PM
It would be easy to check your fuel primer bulb/plunger for leaks. They have been known to leak air into the system when old.
Correct, if you have an old screw on plunger (white knob), changes it leaks are high.
Replacement is the push type plunger (black) |
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kerry460
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: tasmania australia
Vehicle(s): 1984 300GD LWB WAGEN
Posts: 611
| RE: Intermittent starting problem 617a
G,,day
my old style manual primer pump was letting air in allowing fuel to drain back to the tank .
but it was not leaking diesel ,
a new black Bosch primer pump solved the problem .
also the easy way to find diesel leaks is to degrease and allow to dry .
start the motor and sprinkle talcum powder on any suspect area .
it is a bugger to clean off . but you will easily see any leaks .
kerry
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: Intermittent starting problem 617a
I would put a large cash bet on the little vacuum cutoff valve on the ignition switch. If your vacuum pump has let oil into the line it gums up.
Try removing the vacuum line to the fuel cutoff on the injector pump to test.
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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| RE: Intermittent starting problem 617a
Hi friends
thanks for the help.
pulled off the clear fuel filter and heard a sucking sound going back to tank hmm.
does anyone know were the tank vent line terminates ? This is a 280 ge w the diesel engine.
I see it coming out the passenger side rear wheel area but can't see what it ends in.
thanks again for the help
sean
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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| RE: Intermittent starting problem 617a
Hi friends
thanks for the help.
pulled off the clear fuel filter and heard a sucking sound going back to tank hmm.
does anyone know were the tank vent line terminates ? This is a 280 ge w the diesel engine.
I see it coming out the passenger side rear wheel area but can't see what it ends in.
thanks again for the help
sean
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bram_r
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
| RE: Intermittent starting problem 617a
sean - 3/24/2017 4:23 PM
Hi friends
thanks for the help.
pulled off the clear fuel filter and heard a sucking sound going back to tank hmm.
does anyone know were the tank vent line terminates ? This is a 280 ge w the diesel engine.
I see it coming out the passenger side rear wheel area but can't see what it ends in.
thanks again for the help
sean
The vent line connects to your fuel filler pipe. If you look into your passenger side rear wheel well with a flash light, you should see some hose pillar on the fuel filler neck on which the vent hose is clamped onto.
gr. bram |
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Inkblotz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
| RE: Intermittent starting problem 617a
here you go.
Mark
 (Gastank.jpg)
Attachments
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 Gastank.jpg (56KB - 0 downloads)
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Warren T
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): 230GE,300GD,300D
Posts: 519
| Re: Intermittent starting problem 617a
If your 280GE had a vapour canister the fuel cap is unvented. The Diesels had a vented cap. Just drill a small
hole in it and your problem should be solved. Under the cap you will see an indent where the vent would be.
Warren |
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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| RE: Intermittent starting problem 617a
Thanks Warren
will do that today
sean |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: Intermittent starting problem 617a
I thought this truck was originally a 300GD (per the information under your name in the "Author" area). If so, then it's already got the vented cap. Of course the vent could be plugged. It's normal for fuel at the engine to drain back to the tank when the clear filter is disconnected because the pump is higher than the tank. I'm not sure about a "sucking sound". But a better indicator would be if you hear a sound of air movement when you open the fuel filler cap. If you hear something at that point, then I'd consider the vent likely blocked. Another indicator is that the cap is normally kind of oily on the outside from vapors exiting and sticking to the cap. If your cap is always dry and clean, the vent could be plugged.
Paying attention to the details of the symptoms is key here.
When the no start occurs:
How long was the last drive?
Was the last drive mostly high or low speed?
How long was the engine shut down since it was last running?
Is the clear fuel filter full of fuel (should normally be only a small bubble the size of a fingernail in there)
What gets it to start? (lots of cranking?, just letting it sit?, pumping the primer?, remove/reattach the shut-off vacuum line?)
Keeping a good record of the answers to questions like these over the course of even a few occurrences will get you pointed in the right direction. Running around changing things at random based on problems that someone else has had with their truck can confound the issue by introducing new variables that weren't part of your original problem. Sometimes you get lucky, but you don't learn as much.
Let us know what you find.
-Dave G. |
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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| Re: Intermittent starting problem 617a
Hipine
the truck is a 85 280ge w a 617 a swapped in.
I didn't do the swap but got the truck at about 80 percent complete of motor install.
as per previous owner this is the second diesel motor to go into the g because 1st one had a catastrophic oil leak and blew.
when I do have a no start condition it's after driving at hwy speeds fully warmed up.
the g wI'll sit for 5 min then not start . Sometimes g will start w half throttle and barley run and then die when pedal is released. And not rev up when floored.or has no athority when doing so. On 2nd try starts fine w no throttle and runs great. Or several more just turn over and not start. Seems like fuel starvation,I do pump the primer but am unsure if it makes a
difference. I have checked for vacuum at the filler cap when no start occurs do not here vacuum when opening fuel cap. Always finally starts just wait it out and keep trying.
Could injection pump be failing don't see unusual air in clear filter.
thanks for the help
sean |
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Inkblotz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
| Re: Intermittent starting problem 617a
The PO did remove the 280GEs electric pump by the fuel tank right?
Check also inside removing the right rear panel in the trunk area. I believe the various gas related vent canisters are there. |
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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| Re: Intermittent starting problem 617a
Hi all
been troubleshooting again g is not starting more frequently. thinking fuel starvation. Could here sucking sound when unhooking little clear filter. Checked vent line it was kinked and leaking g has the extended range tanks. Cracked numer 1 injector line no fuel when cranking w key on and partial throttle .lift pump pumping fine opened line from pump to big filter banjobolt. Blew air through supply and return both clear.
while doing this I inadvertently disconnected vacuum line to fuel cut off on ip.
well what do you know. Starts every time huh. But won't shut off unless reconnected w key.
is the vacuum shut off something I could shoot wd 40 in were vac line hooks to?
or chemtool. Don't want to have to replace looks like a bear.
seems to be slow to release once vacuum is off.
key vacuum cut off seems fine under dash.
thanks for the help. I feel Fairley confident it won't strand me. Really hasn't ever thank god.
sean
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Fernando BR
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: Brasil
Vehicle(s): G500/05 300GE/91 300GD/80
| Re: Intermittent starting problem 617a
I know its a strange think but at my 300GD last maintenance i had to disconect hoses (feed & return) from the tank. Mechanic connected them at inverse position...engine works very bad , beieve me. It takes a week to understand what was going on. Diesel original tank has 3 connections at the transmissor . Feed, return, webasto. Dont know what tank are you using, anyway better check. Simple mistakes..... |
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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| Re: Intermittent starting problem 617a
Hi Fernando
this g is a 280ge w a 617a swap.
Any ideas on how to determine supply and return lines.
sean |
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Fernando BR
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: Brasil
Vehicle(s): G500/05 300GE/91 300GD/80
| RE: Intermittent starting problem 617a
The feed line goes above and the return below frame structure.Look at Wis page. Dont really know if in a 280GE its the same , but i believe yes, |
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Fernando BR
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: Brasil
Vehicle(s): G500/05 300GE/91 300GD/80
| RE: Intermittent starting problem 617a
The feed line goes above and the return below frame structure.Look at Wis page. Dont really know if in a 280GE its the same , but i believe yes,
Attachments
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tank conversion.pdf (739KB - 2 downloads)
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