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kriswaatch
Member
Date registered: May 2017
Location: Montreal, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1990 W461 250GD Wolf
Posts: 28
| Dual battery
Hi everyone
long time reader, first time post, so, please be easy on me.
I'm thinking of buying a 1990 250GD Puch.
I have a few questions which I just can't seem to understand.
I have checked this forum as well as a couple others to try and understand. Perhaps I'm not asking the right question in Google.
Anyhoops, here it is.
The Wolf I'm thinking of purchasing is a 24v one. But, I would like to have some 12v accessories too. Such as a radio, compressor, charger, to name a few.
I swear, I have either seen it on this forum or elsewhere, where someone had a second alternator in the engine for 12v. Does that make sense?
I'm not too keen on doing the 24v / 12v converter route, and I'm not too keen on converting the truck from 24v to 12v either.
Is it possible to have 3 batteries, 2 x 12 in series for the 24v normal operations of the Wolf, and a 12v battery for my personal stuff. And, if so, how can that be done?
Oh, and one last question 
Would 33" tires fit on this truck without any rubbing?
Cheers and thanks folks |
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burqueDOKA
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle(s): 1550L37Doka, 404 ROCKMOG, '00 G500
Posts: 622
| RE: Dual battery
http://www.sterling-power-usa.com/24volt-12volt30ampbatterytobatter...
This really is the best and simplest solution to your query. It is not a step down converter, it is a battery to battery charger, it simply takes excess power from you alternator and charges an isolated 12v battery with power that has been stepped down to 12volts. This means you are able to run as much current as you need, from a battery, without risking burning up a converter. It has the benefit of being completely taken out of your stock system without effecting or bastardizing any of the stock wiring. I have installed it and a third battery in my 24v Unimog. Very simple, very robust solution. Then wire in a 12v distribution panel and wire in what ever 12v needs you have to it. I would also recommend Bluesea Systems fuse panels.
Edited by burqueDOKA 7/24/2017 1:27 AM
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kriswaatch
Member
Date registered: May 2017
Location: Montreal, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1990 W461 250GD Wolf
Posts: 28
| Re: Dual battery
Thanks Burque
Seems to me that setup is taking juice from the main batteries, isn't it? That's what I would like to get a way from. I would prefer something that is completely independent from the main electricals.
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bluegg
Veteran
Date registered: Nov 2016
Location: Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1985 300GDT, 2003 Beetle 1.8t S, 1982 F350 SC Dual
Posts: 141
| Re: Dual battery
12V alternator added to supply 3rd battery-- supplying isolated 12V sub system with fuse block.
Alt will rob some horses from engine and locating won't be easy. Maybe instead of A/C compressor but then you're bastardizing OEM and losing a system.
Unless you could find a T case with PTO to run an alternator. Probably messy and complicated as well as expensive.
Maybe solar or wind generation? |
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kriswaatch
Member
Date registered: May 2017
Location: Montreal, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1990 W461 250GD Wolf
Posts: 28
| Re: Dual battery
Bluegg
you have a very good point. Thanks for your input.
Maybe Solar and / or Burque's idea would be the best route. |
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burqueDOKA
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle(s): 1550L37Doka, 404 ROCKMOG, '00 G500
Posts: 622
| Re: Dual battery
kriswaatch - 7/24/2017 7:15 AM
Thanks Burque
Seems to me that setup is taking juice from the main batteries, isn't it? That's what I would like to get a way from. I would prefer something that is completely independent from the main electricals.
No, it absolutely does not take any juice from the main batteries.
The device doesn't even kick in till 5 mins after start up, allowing the main batteries to recover from starting the vehicle. Once that period is over it diverts the alternator power through it, kicking down to 12v, and channels the power to the aux battery. While driving, it will sence when the power is sufficient in both banks and will go back and forth between them as needed. Like I said, this system can be disconnected from the truck simply by disconnecting one line. In other words is very un intrusive to the stock electrical system. That is a good thing.
That third battery only needs to be as big as what your 12v demands require. It may not need to be that big if all your running is radio, lights etc. If your going to run a fridge at camp, make it a deep cycle.
No need to add horse power robbing extra alternators. Save that space for other things like AC or a belt driven compressor.
Edited by burqueDOKA 7/24/2017 10:54 AM
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kriswaatch
Member
Date registered: May 2017
Location: Montreal, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1990 W461 250GD Wolf
Posts: 28
| Re: Dual battery
Thanks for the clarification Burque, makes a lot more sense now.
I'm liking this idea. It makes a lot of sense.
Cheers |
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burqueDOKA
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle(s): 1550L37Doka, 404 ROCKMOG, '00 G500
Posts: 622
| Re: Dual battery
bluegg - 7/24/2017 7:48 AM
12V alternator added to supply 3rd battery-- supplying isolated 12V sub system with fuse block.
Alt will rob some horses from engine and locating won't be easy. Maybe instead of A/C compressor but then you're bastardizing OEM and losing a system.
Unless you could find a T case with PTO to run an alternator. Probably messy and complicated as well as expensive.
Maybe solar or wind generation?
You wouldn't want to run a PTO while driving down the road.
Wind and solar are only good while at camp, what about while driving? You won't want a 90w panel on top of your Wolf, that would look dumb. Wind is only good, well when its windy, and a windy camp site sucks. Solar while at camp is a good thing for keeping up with stationary demands like a fridge. I use a 90w tri fold panel from Overland Solar. It is the cat's ass. It will keep up with the fridge and led scene lights indefinitely.
Yes the name "battery to battery charger" is a little miss leading. It more of an alternator diverted.
On my Unimog, I ran a main distribution line from my 12v battery to a Bluesea Systems fuse block mounted in the dash. This then gives you easy access to all your needs up there. Just be sure to label your fuse blocks and lines as to what is 12v and what is 24 volt so no body in the future goofs.
Edited by burqueDOKA 7/24/2017 11:45 AM
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kriswaatch
Member
Date registered: May 2017
Location: Montreal, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1990 W461 250GD Wolf
Posts: 28
| Re: Dual battery
Hey Burque
thanks again
That's actually what I was thinking. Having a foldable solar panel, for when I get to the camp site. Agreed, having a solar panel stuck to the rook would be....just wrong.
As for the sterling gizmo, I think that may be just the trick.
It sounds like the perfect setup.
Thanks for your advice mate
Cheers |
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burqueDOKA
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle(s): 1550L37Doka, 404 ROCKMOG, '00 G500
Posts: 622
| Re: Dual battery
You bet man, no problem. If you have any more questions about my set up let me know. |
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kriswaatch
Member
Date registered: May 2017
Location: Montreal, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1990 W461 250GD Wolf
Posts: 28
| Re: Dual battery
Sure thing.
Do you still have your Unimog?
I use to own a Pinzgauer. Awesome offroading vehicles, but, definitely not a daily driver in my opinion.
Hence, I'm thinking of buying a Wolf |
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burqueDOKA
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle(s): 1550L37Doka, 404 ROCKMOG, '00 G500
Posts: 622
| RE: Dual battery
An additional component to your future system you might want to consider is this remote battery switch made by Bluesea Systems. Like my unimog, I imagine you'll need to mount your aux battery somewhere in the rear of the Wolf. This switch can be mounted on your dash board and allows you to shut off the 12v items when the truck is off.
You may not need this function depending on what you wire into the 12v side. But things like radios need to be shut off with the key. You can accomplish this, by the way, with most any relays. (Most, if not all relays can have a 24v input signal and switch 12v devices, not sure if you knew that.)
https://www.bluesea.com/products/7700/ML-RBS_Remote_Battery_Switch_w...
Yes is still have her. 1550L37 Doka. I also have a FLU-419 HMMH tractor (it's the material handler version of the SEE tractor). I think a Wolf will be in my future someday!
Edited by burqueDOKA 7/24/2017 12:22 PM
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kriswaatch
Member
Date registered: May 2017
Location: Montreal, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1990 W461 250GD Wolf
Posts: 28
| Re: Dual battery
I'll keep that in mind, thanks |
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bluegg
Veteran
Date registered: Nov 2016
Location: Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1985 300GDT, 2003 Beetle 1.8t S, 1982 F350 SC Dual
Posts: 141
| Re: Dual battery
Technology in solar and wind has come some distance out of the trailer park.
There are low profile, flexible cells the would be less obvious on the roof of any vehicle than a cumbersome roof rack and last time I looked the sun always shines on the top of my truck. That's why I sometimes park in the shade.
My G is slow as they were meant to be but last time I was cruising down the road by god there was wind going by.
A low profile scoop on top of a vehicle could corral and compress the wind energy from driving to crank an alternator specifically to charge your 1 12 volt battery.
Sometimes we need to think out of the campsite. |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Dual battery
Ya, a wind generator in case you park in the shade
LOL |
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kriswaatch
Member
Date registered: May 2017
Location: Montreal, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1990 W461 250GD Wolf
Posts: 28
| Re: Dual battery
Agreed bluegg.
After my initial back and forth with Burque and some contemplation, I decided for now (well, that is when I get the truck in 2 weeks), I will stick only with solar. I don't think my needs and demands will be so great on that battery. I won't be installing a fridge. It'll be just for the radio, and charging things here and there. I'm sure a solar panel will suffice.
However, the wind thingy may be a pretty good idea too.
Later on, if and when my electric demands get to be greater, I can then do other things.
Edited by kriswaatch 7/26/2017 9:02 AM
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bram_r
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
| Re: Dual battery
Just for general info, the 280cdi as used with Dutch Army special forces does/did have a dual alternator installed, for both 24V and 12V power supply.
gr. Bram |
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burqueDOKA
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle(s): 1550L37Doka, 404 ROCKMOG, '00 G500
Posts: 622
| Re: Dual battery
If all you are doing is a radio and charging things like cell phones, then forget the third battery all together. Just wire up a step down converter to your two stock batteries. I know you mentioned you were against this idea of tapping into them, but honestly I'm not sure why. In my opinion, you don't need a separate battery for a couple small, non crucial items.
Now if you are installing a huge radio with apms and base, obviously you'll want that third battery. But, a reasonable sized solar panel by its self will never keep up with the demand.
Edited by burqueDOKA 7/31/2017 7:28 PM
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Warren T
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): 230GE,300GD,300D
Posts: 519
| Re: Dual battery
I would not run 24 volts in a civilian truck because of availibality and added cost of bulbs, glow plugs, glow relay wiper
and fan motors and problems when you need a boost ETC.....starter, alternator, cluster guages...
I converted a Swiss military truck to 12 volts using some new and some used parts and the owner is happy with it.
If you plan on keeping the truck for a while it,s worth while.
I should have most of the parts tou would need and close by in Saint-Sauveur.
Warren
450 227 8972
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kriswaatch
Member
Date registered: May 2017
Location: Montreal, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1990 W461 250GD Wolf
Posts: 28
| Re: Dual battery
Burque, thanks for the advice. But, over time, I will add more to the 12 vols system. Such as air compressor to air up the tires and whatnot. Perhaps even a winch, although, maybe a 24v would be better.
Warren
hmmmm, to be honest, this is something I haven't thought about. I'll be seeing if I buy the truck, which will be next week. And, if I do, the first thing I'm doing, is taking a week or two off and going camping / 4x4'ing up north. I usually go 4x4'ing a little past Lac des seize Iles. Would you be interested if I dropped by?
Cheers |
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