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The_Analyst
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Vibration during entering highway curves at 55-65 mph
Hi all,
I have noticed a vibration on the steering wheel while driving my 2003 G500 at 55-65 mph and entering slightly sharp curves on the highway.
The tires have been balanced in a roadforce machine and they only have 20k miles.
The same thing happen with my wife’s 2003 G500 when the tires had 25k miles. I replaced the tires in her car and the problem was almost gone. The shake is still there (in my wife’s car with the new tires) but in rare occasions and during entering curves on the highway at 55-65 mph.
I wonder if there is something else here to look at. The balance did not really fix the issue and since it has happened in both I wonder if there is a mechanical issue.
Any suggestions?
Thanks The Analyst
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sjtymko
G-Class Photo Host
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Canada, AB, Sherwood Park (Edmonton)
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500, 2009 B200
Posts: 511
| RE: Vibration during entering highway curves at 55-65 mph
Check yr wheel bearings. I believe others have begun to have issues at about this point. For a more permanent fix, buy a set of pre-2002 G500 rims with more ET (ET 63). ST |
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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| Re: Vibration during entering highway curves at 55-65 mph
First of all... are you trying to torture use with your His & Hers G500s? I am jealous!
What kind of tires are you running? They could be developing a "hop" or becoming out-of-round.
I would also take a look at the steering shock absorber. Some of the members have reported thiers have failed and been replaced with that few miles. |
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DesertStar
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
| RE: Vibration during entering highway curves at 55-65 mph
Is it an actual vibration of the whole vehicle or just the steering wheel "feel of the road" ? Does it happen on all sharp curves or just "particular" curves ? Is possibility that of the ESP system or whatever it is on the W463 kicking in a bit transferring torque all about ?
I remember reading in the workshop manual about vibrations and those experienced during curves were generally diagnosed as "torque related". I honestly have no clues but wanted to throw some ideas out to narrow and probe.
Mike |
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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| RE: Vibration during entering highway curves at 55-65 mph
More ideas...
 (Vibration.jpg)
Attachments
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 Vibration.jpg (231KB - 4 downloads)
Vibration.pdf (66KB - 5 downloads)
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The_Analyst
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: Vibration during entering highway curves at 55-65 mph
Hi all,
Thanks for the info. The tires are the stock Yoko’s on both cars.
The suggested solution from the dealer was to replace the tires (he claims that on the G500s the tires need to be replaced every 20K miles due to the weight of the car ((hmm)). If this is true then why the problem still exists (rare but still there) with Hers after the tire replacement?
To “sjtymko”:
Wheel bearings that early? Mine has 21K miles on it, and my wife’s 35K miles. But what do I need to do to check the bearings (they look lubed and I just had a service B performed).
To “DesertStar”:
The vibration is only on the steering wheel. I think it starts when entering a highway curve (not really sharp, but more like a gentle exit curve). At that point I think the vibration will initiate and then it feels like it hits a harmonic and the more you get into the curve the stronger the vibration. It will stop if the speed drops below 55 mph. I’m not certain if there has to be a bump on the road to initiate the first vibration. If that is the case then I would think that the dumper is bad.
Why would ESP kick in a gentle curve when there is no sleeping? BTW during this the ESP symbol is not on.
This is not really a corner issue (it may be but I don’t usually take corners at 55 mph!!!). It is more of a curve issue…The vibration is not there at these speeds when the road is straight or has a very minor curve.
One more thing to add is that most likely both cars have a bent panhard rod. You have to turn the steering wheel to the right by a couple of degrees to insure that the car is going straight. The angle is very small and my wife has not even noticed that but it bothers me.
Therefore, I was wondering if the panhard rod, or the driveshaft or the damper could be the cause of the problem.
We are in the process of moving to Savannah GA (next week). I will have the dealer there look at the cars but I think that there are only 4 G500 in that town (and we will be bringing another two). Their experience is not that great with these cars. They might need some suggestions prior to destroying our cars. I guess I might have to go out of town to get the cars serviced but that is a MAJOR PAIN!!!
Thanks,
The_Analyst |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Vibration during entering highway curves at 55-65 mph
Your dealer's tire excuse at 20k is pure "sales speak"; i.e..Barbara Streisand (BS)!
If it's only in curves, I would look for some play in either the wheel bearings or the king pin bearings; and a good dealer should be able to measure that play. Side force seems to be pressing something out of line; and bearings would be the chief culprit.
Have the tires been Road Force balanced? If not, do it. That made all the difference in the world on my 2000 G500.
Otherwise try a steering damper. It's about a $170 part; and if it doesn't fix it, you can keep the old as a replacement speare on down the line. |
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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| Re: Vibration during entering highway curves at 55-65 mph
Is it possible that it is only this one stretch of highway? or does it happen anywhere at this speed while turning?
How sharply are you turning? I would ask in degrees, but tell me how far your steering wheel is turned (like a clock).
Have you checked or adjusted the tire pressure on your tires? Try adjusting the pressure in 5lbs increments and see if that makes a difference.
Have you ever been present while they are balancing your tires? While they are on the machine, watch the actual outer edges and see if they wobble or hop any?
With only 20,000 - 35,000 miles on these vehicles, I really doubt if it is anything mechanical (wheel bearings, panhard, or tie rod ends). Steering shock absorber... maybe... but on both vehicles?
You must also remember that this is a truck. It will ride and feel like a truck. You might want to find someone else with another G-Wagon and compare opinions (but then again, you already have to identical G500s). |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Vibration during entering highway curves at 55-65 mph
I had this problem when I picked up my truck. It was a combination of three problems.
1) excessive toe in
2) loose wheel bearings
3) out of balance tires
The out of balance tires were more likely a second symptom.
The physics of the problem are like this: The rear tires have basically perfect toe in (0degr). This offers minimal rolling resistance. If the front tires have any significant toe-in or toe-out, then the front axle will have higher rolling resistance. This isn't noticable at lower speeds or when going straight. Once you take on a freeway curve things change. The front wheels are constantly trying to resist the turn. This slight slippage sets up the perfect opportunity for vibration at the usual harmonic points which are near freeway speeds.
Really loose wheel bearing can figure into this as they allow the wheels can change alignment as road force is applied.
Fixing these three things cured the vibration on my truck. A new vibration damper did nothing. |
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The_Analyst
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: Vibration during entering highway curves at 55-65 mph
Thanks,
I wish I had asked earlier...
I’ll be in Savannah next week. Since the local dealer has no experience with these cars I hope he’ll be more willing to take instructions!!!
I will talk to them about all three points and I will report back as soon as I have a solution.
Thanks
The_Analyst
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460332
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Europe
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Vibration during entering highway curves at 55-65 mph
Do you have the same strength of vibration in both left and right turns?
Do you feel front-end vibrations or do you actually feel the steering wheel doing left-right moves?
Do the frequency increase/change with speed?
Do the strength change with speed?
The wheel balancing should be done to "0" gram, and allow the shop to use weights on both sides of the wheel to take out sidedways vibrations.
Too many shops are careless with this.
Agree; no need for tire change, older tires get more and more balanced, unless you loose balance weights??
I wouldn't be happy with a dealer that balanced my wheels also recommends buying new tires..., maybe you have showed up in too many G500's ;o)
I dont think the steering damper would have too much to do with this, as the steering damper wouldn't be working in even curves, even at high speed,
unless you meet bumps in the curves or have to do steering adjustments?
The toe-in is measured relative to rear axle toe-in. If front-axle toe-in is set independent of rear axle position you sure get everything wrong.
Troubleshooting with a bent panhard rod is beyond my comprehension, ;o)
Checklist
1. Cleen wheels
2. Air pressure
3. Wheel balanced to "0", all weights in place.
4. Wheel bearing tight, king-pins OK
Other;
Lubricated propeller shafts, universal joints OK, weights in place after off-roading?
Toe-in right (Steering rod and links OK)
Broken springs
Leaking damper
Rusty or overheated brake discs.
Edited by 460332 2/28/2007 6:58 AM
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Vibration during entering highway curves at 55-65 mph
It is easy to check the bearing for play yourself. Jack up one front wheel at a time or the front axle and support it with jackstands. Grab the top and bottom of the tire and press in at the top and pull out at the bottom. Then reverse the pressure. There should be No Play. You should not feel a click or any free play. If you have even .001 of an inch of freeplay at the bearing you will feel it. It should be solid.
-Dai |
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