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Mercedes, Lexus Takes Drumming in Consumer Surveys
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Posted 2/28/2007 7:54 PM
cmitch
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Mercedes, Lexus Takes Drumming in Consumer Surveys

Note that the article states the 7 speed automatic transmission is the biggest problem.

By Chris Woodyard and James R. Healey, USA TODAY
Toyota's vaunted Lexus luxury brand has fallen from first to fifth in Consumer Reports magazine's annual predicted reliability survey, and it's not the only luxury brand taking a drubbing.
Mercedes-Benz was last among 36 brands.
Also at the bottom: Land Rover, Hummer and Jaguar. BMW-owned Mini took the biggest tumble, falling 17 places to 28th.

The Toyota brand and the company's youth-oriented Scion brand are in the top three along with Honda, the magazine says in its April auto issue, on sale next week.

Consumer Reports, operated by the non-profit Consumers Union, bases its reliability rankings on responses from 965,000 subscribers, covering 1.3 million vehicles. The auto issue also includes the magazine's ratings of vehicles based on its own testing.

The reliability survey wasn't entirely dismissive of luxury makes. Nissan's Infiniti line was most improved, moving up 20 places from last year. Audi and Lincoln also moved up dramatically.

David Champion, the magazine's director of automotive testing, blamed one model for Lexus's fall, the midsize GS, redesigned last year. He said the car had significant problems in three areas — body integrity, defined as rattles or poorly fitting panels; body hardware, such as locks and trunk mechanisms; and the sound system.

The model still rated average — and earned a recommendation for purchase — but all other models in the Lexus line were better than average.

While Lexus dropped, Toyota officials looked at the bright side. "We had three of the top five. It reflects well on our products," said spokesman Xavier Dominicis.

Mercedes, DaimlerChrysler's luxury brand, tumbled four places to the cellar, "a very poor showing for a very expensive car," Champion said. Mercedes' quality is so imperiled that a nine-year-old Lexus LS400 has potentially fewer problems than a brand-new Mercedes ML.

Champion said of Mercedes: "They perform well, have great fit and finish. But they seem to have a lot of problems with the seven-speed automatic transmission in all their products, and power accessories and electrical systems."

Mercedes officials disputed the findings. "Today's Mercedes models ... are without question some of the best we have ever built," said spokeswoman Donna Boland. "If the survey doesn't reflect that, there's something wrong with the survey."

She noted that 74% of the Mercedes models sold in the U.S. the past 50 years are still on the road. And a 2006 survey by R.L. Polk showed that Mercedes has the highest owner loyalty of any brand.

Mercedes had well-publicized quality issues a couple years ago, but they were fixed, Boland says. "We have been out-front about that. But the data we have on the new models absolutely support that the quality is right up there with people's expectations."

Mini fell because of reliability issues with the supercharged convertible version of the sporty car, Champion said.

Mini spokesman Andrew Cutler said he couldn't explain why his brand fell in the rankings. An all-new replacement for the Mini was introduced this month. "They must be factoring in a drop in reliability (now) that the cars are all new from plant that's been upgraded," he said

#65491
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Posted 2/28/2007 9:50 PM
Marsden
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Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Capital City USA
Vehicle(s): Mercedes-Benz
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RE: Mercedes, Lexus Takes Drumming in Consumer Surveys

Oh great.  Last place.  It's not going to get too much worse now, right?

Spokeswoman Donna Boland: "If the survey doesn't reflect that, there's something wrong with the survey."

Well of course.

 

 

#65516 - in reply to #65491
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Posted 2/28/2007 11:03 PM
cmitch
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RE: Mercedes, Lexus Takes Drumming in Consumer Surveys

Marsden - 2/28/2007 8:50 PM

Oh great. Last place. It's not going to get too much worse now, right?

Spokeswoman Donna Boland: "If the survey doesn't reflect that, there's something wrong with the survey."

Well of course.

Look at it on the bright side: The only place they have to go from here is up! 

#65522 - in reply to #65516
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Posted 2/28/2007 11:43 PM
Marsden
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Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Capital City USA
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RE: Mercedes, Lexus Takes Drumming in Consumer Surveys

We can dream, can't we? 

"As God is my witness, one day a Mercedes will be as reliable as a Hyundai"  

#65528 - in reply to #65491
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Posted 3/1/2007 2:01 AM
nomad

Date registered: Dec 1899
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RE: Mercedes, Lexus Takes Drumming in Consumer Surveys

Marsden - 3/1/2007 3:43 PM

We can dream, can't we? 

"As God is my witness, one day a Mercedes will be as reliable as a Hyundai"  



Haha, my friends very tidy W163 ML is barely on par with the standard of the '96 Hyundai I used to own, I bought it new, drove it to hell and back on many occasions and it never once faltered
Even with 3-kids creating havoc inside it, nothing broke, came loose or rattled

So why don't I still have it you ask?...well...she took half and the car was in the half that she took


Edited by nomad 3/1/2007 2:03 AM
#65534 - in reply to #65528
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Posted 3/1/2007 6:50 AM
AsianML

Date registered: Dec 1899
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Re: Mercedes, Lexus Takes Drumming in Consumer Surveys

My ML has been flawless. F CR!
#65544 - in reply to #65534
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Posted 3/1/2007 6:53 AM
Roch207
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Re: Mercedes, Lexus Takes Drumming in Consumer Surveys

Consumer Reports = soccer mom's driving ML's.
#65545 - in reply to #65491
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Posted 3/1/2007 10:38 AM
Bruce
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"Worst of the Worst"

Geez, I listened to Paul Harvey this morning and he mentioned the latest Consumer Reports study of automobile reliability. Of course, according to him, Honda and Toyota were on top. Then he said "the worst of the worst - Mercedes Benz". According to him, Consumer Reports has MB at the bottom of the reliability ratings.

I'll have to go to the library and read the article, but it sure is amazing that a company can fall into hands that can take it from the top in terms of reputation for quality and put it at the bottom in just a few years.

Bruce
#65558 - in reply to #65491
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Posted 3/1/2007 11:08 AM
hus55
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Re: "Worst of the Worst"

this has been a long term problem here in the uk.build quality and aftermarket care has been on a constant decline since the early 90's.however in recent reports here in the uk mercedes has seemed to improve quality in all areas from A CLASS- S CLASS.i think the CLS proved this!

i think however we are a unique breed,our passion for a vehicle that has been in production for almost 3 decades is still what it is:

A SOLID RELIABLE THOROUGH BRED.




#65559 - in reply to #65558
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Posted 3/1/2007 11:53 AM
4x4abc



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
5000
RE: "Worst of the Worst"

no need for the library:
http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023544

As bad as the Mercedes quality has become - their owners are pickier than others, and that drives the rating down.

Here are some other thoughts about CR ratings:
http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

Edited by 4x4abc 3/1/2007 11:58 AM
#65560 - in reply to #65558
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Posted 3/1/2007 12:13 PM
Bruce
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RE: "Worst of the Worst"

4x4abc - 3/1/2007 8:53 AM

no need for the library:
http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023544

As bad as the Mercedes quality has become - their owners are pickier than others, and that drives the rating down.

Here are some other thoughts about CR ratings:
http://www.allpar.com/cr.html



Thanks Harald! Boy, its worse than I would have imagined. "Mercedes-Benz, on the other hand, does not have a single model reliable enough to be recommended. "

As much as I respect your expertise, I'm not sure I'd buy your reasoning for the low ratings. I'm quite sure other luxury car buyers are picky too. Surely Lexus and Infinity buyers are picky and their cars rate among the best. As far as the allpar rebuttal goes, they are a site for DC products (while not owned by DC, they surely prosper when DC prospers and would not exist except for DC) while CR is not associated with any one brand.

I currently own 6 MB cars/trucks. Not one is newer than 1985. I think I'm glad for that.

Remember when Japanese was considered to be cheap and inferior? Clearly, they have taken away that image over the past couple decades while the likes of MB have all but ruined a fine reputation.

Anyway, my main point was not how bad MB has become, but rather how disappointing it is that any group of executives of any company could let this happen. How in the H... does the CEO keep his job?


Bruce
#65561 - in reply to #65560
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Posted 3/1/2007 12:27 PM
4x4abc



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
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RE: "Worst of the Worst"

Bruce,

not only does the CEO keep his job - he gets roughly $10 million a year.
#65562 - in reply to #65561
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Posted 3/1/2007 1:25 PM
BusBar
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RE: "Worst of the Worst"

4x4abc - 3/1/2007 5:27 PM

Bruce,

not only does the CEO keep his job - he gets roughly $10 million a year.

Maybe they use the UK model. CEO’s don’t get nearly as much reward for normal / good performance compared to the US but they get WAY better rewards for failure.

It pretty common knowledge that around 1996 is around the time that MB (amongst others) started to load up their products with electronics which they assumed customers wanted with a perceived increase in value and desirability. Shame their procurement strategy was to buy from the lowest bidders.
#65563 - in reply to #65562
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Posted 3/1/2007 4:52 PM
cmitch
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RE: Mercedes, Lexus Takes Drumming in Consumer Surveys

Another thing to consider is the fact that MB service is, at most locations, less desirable than the average dealer. It is amazing how many dealers are not knowledgeable about what they service. An example would be the response from MB of Huntsville when I gave them the TSB # on the fluctuating audio in my radio on the 2002 ML320. They acted as if they knew nothing about the TSB or the fix for the problem. I then called J.W. Johnson, a SA at Crown Mercedes in Birmingham and he knew right off what I was talking about. He said for me to bring it in and he'd fix it for $30.00. MB of Huntsville wanted a minimum $90.00 charge just to find out what it was. Then they were going to charge me extra to fix it, 'if they could'.

Bad service does help to bring the ratings down, even if the problem at hand is a simply solvable one. 

#65578 - in reply to #65491
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Posted 3/1/2007 6:44 PM
Marsden
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Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Capital City USA
Vehicle(s): Mercedes-Benz
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RE: Mercedes, Lexus Takes Drumming in Consumer Surveys

I have to agree.  Now that I've used three different MB dealers...

The service hasn't been horrible, but it also hasn't been like what you get at a Lexus dealer.

 

OTOH, Lexus service is bound to be less taxing on the SA's, relatively speaking.   

#65587 - in reply to #65491
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